You already have a reference point - can't you plug in your own expenses?

6,000 miles a year isn't very much. Usually a car is cheaper. Points to consider:

- Make sure if you are only going to have one vehicle, that your insurance costs accurately reflect that. A lot of people use their "second vehicle" rate for their bike in these calculations.

- Use the appropriate level of gas - usually premium for a sport bike and regular for a car.

- Compare apples to oranges - don't show cost for changing oil yourself in one case and having a dealer/service dept do it in the other.

- Be reasonable about tire estimates (a big part of the difference). I expect a rear tire to last 3,500 miles and am thrilled if it lasts 5k, and I'm not particularly hard on tires. Bike tires flatspot due to their wear characteristics if you commute, and they are not very fun to corner on once they have.

KeS

 

I average 10k a year in the car and 5k a year on the bike(s). My bike was saving me a lot back when I had my lifted jeep. Granted I had a 30 mile commute one way to school. And 10 mile commute to work the opposite way. My bike was getting 40ish mpg and my jeep was getting 10mpg....on a good day.

Plus I'm sure most of us ride because it's enjoyable and not to save money. That's just an added incentive.

Sent from HTC Thunderbolt.

 

600RR to save gas? Comparing a Civic to a 600RR?


I know how this thread will go, won't waste any more bytes on this.

 

The "bikes save money" argument is simply a trick to get your wife to let you buy a bike. At best it's a wash, esapecially with a sportbike.

If you actually want to save money, buy a scooter. With the current gas prices, 5000 miles on a scooter = $1000 in savings. So if you buy a scooter for $2000 and put 10K miles on it, you essentially have a free scooter. It's like printing money.

You can do the same thing with a Ninja 250, but it takes more miles to break even.

 

After 150,000 miles, I enjoy maintaining a bike MUCH more than a POS car. I HATE cars! I'll take the worst a bike can give anyday. The only one who wrenches my bike is me. Dealer monkey mechanics don't touch it.

The answer to expensive tires are Shinko.

There is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing. Gerbing's electrics were the best investment I made 12 years ago.

 

If you really want to save money, catch the bus!

 

Mass transit in the US is a joke.

 

I'm surprised that the CBR got better gas mileage. He either rides really slow or drives the hell out of his civic.

 

So your friend has this spreadsheet. All you need do is plug in your own data.

Asking opinions here doesn't make any sense. I don't know the costs for a lifted v6 f150, but I am sure you do. What am I missing?

 

Your point of refence starts out as an economy car, then changes to a full size truck.

If you stay below 500 cc and can pay less than $200 per year insurance on a Bike, and do your own maintence work(tires,chains ect). Then you can come out cheaper than an economy car.

You need a bike that gets atleast 50 mpg, that limits the cc range. Also Drops the intial purchase cost.

Now a lifted v6 truck(is extravagant, tires brake wear ect) try a stanard shift base cab small truck, cheaper cost on tires(you can run car tires), easier on brakes ect. But my standard shift base truck, is way way cheaper to operate than my bike.

 

I did the math a few years ago on my $40,000 2002 F350 Crewcab diesel vs my $6800 2007 ZZr600 and the truck cost More per mile to drive than the motorcycle by only 6 or 7 cents per mile (if memory serves me correctly...I know it wasn't much), even when the truck only lifetime averaged 18mpg and the bike lifetime averaged 43 and diesel costing typically .40-.75 more per gallon than gas. Tires were the real difference in favor of the truck, 52,000 miles a set for $900 of tires vs over those same 52,000 miles on the motorcycle it was 12 sets of tires at just over $2950. Insurance was nearly a wash when comparing apples to apples coverage, since I ride 3 times as many miles on the bike each year vs what I drove the truck~but real world I carry liability on bike and full on truck, so the truck insurance costs seven times the bike ($124 yr bike~ $840 yr truck).
Since doing that comparison the miles per year on the truck dropped in half---so cost per mile on it would have gone up significantly, making the bike far more favorable in the cost per mile department.

But since I do all my own work on both vehicles and the truck thus far had only ever needed tires and oil changes (4 gallons of oil in the truck vs 4.25 quarts in the bike...but the truck got them 50% less often) and to clean the air filter on occassion vs the bike going through 8 valve adjustments (ie tune ups), 24 tire changes, 2 new sets of chain/sprockets, 3-fork oil changes, 5-brake fluid changes etc.....I did not calculate in any expenses for service other than the parts themselves.
Had I been paying for service and tire changes etc...the truck would have easily cost less per mile than the motorcycle

How many miles per year is probably the biggest factor in your cost per mile calculations.
Figuring some of the biggest of the expenses are fixed regardless if you drive it 3000 miles or 30,000 miles; cost of vehicle, insurance to a large extent, depreciation to a large extent.

I did do the math on exact expenses as I experienced on both vehicles too, and then the truck cost me far less per year than the motorcycle, in large part due to the huge difference in miles driven/ridden each year, but the cost per mile of the truck was near $1 per mile vs the bike being slightly more than 1/2 that (I don't remember the actual number anymore)

A couple of notes, I based the value of the vehicles (at the time of doing the comparison) to what a local truck dealer would give me for it outright ($20,000) and the value of the bike at what I felt was reasonable and comparative to the local market ($3200)...The truck was also 6 years older than the bike~ yet both vehicles had dropped to approx 1/2 their original cost.

But I never go on the bike thinking "this will cost me less to get from point A to point B"

Another note or three....the truck can and has hauled a 41' RV to Canada, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone or anywhere and I am in relative comfort. The bike.....I wouldn't even ride it to any of those locations. The bike is great fun for 500 mile days as long as the roads are twisty curvy...but hiway droning is best left to 4 wheels. Plus the bike can only be ridden (in relative comfort and safety) here in MN for 8 months of the year (typically) whereas the truck can go anywhere anytime and your in relative comfort and safety, so a second vehicle with 4 wheels is a must. The motorcycle also doesn't do well bringing home $200 worth of groceries or lumber from Menards or that new couch/TV/computer desk etc...


~ramble off~

 

A lot of people in Europe ride bikes to save money, the key is the bikes they chose for commuters... Supersports never make it to that list.

Start with something like a Ninja 650, Versys 650, SVF650, thumpers, like the KLR650, DR650, MT-03, XT660R/Z/X, or the ultimate gas sipper, the BMW G650GS. On any of those bikes you'll use cheaper brake pads (and less of them), cheaper tires and chains will last longer. The twins will have no problem achieving Prius like MPG, the thumpers will make a Prius look like a gas guzzler. Then there is the tires, commuter bike gets commuter tires, you don't need Power Pures to commute, even cheap ContiMotion, Shinkos, or more expensive tires, like Road Attacks or Pilot Roads will do just fine and last a LONG time. Finally, don't overdo on the maintenance! Changing fluids too often "because bike engines run harder" is a waste.

Then there are the items people don't consider on their car TCO, a car will eventually need shocks (4 of them), CV joints, engine mounts, and several other wear items a bike just doesn't have.

Last but not least, bikes are really easy to work on compared to cars.

 

+1 .. Its all about the choice of bike . If you want to commute on a bike buy a commuter bike not a fashion statment .You dont need to look good you just need to get there . shaft drive is king , old and simple is best and do your own spannering .

 

Here are my actual numbers, for what they are worth:

2005 Honda Civic, bought used (so the original owner ate a lot of the initial depreciation), has 118K miles on it. Costs factored in include purchase price, repairs, maintenance (I do my own), insurance, tags, etc. Car averages 32.5 miles per gallon on regular, current trade value is $3100 and is factored in. So far the cost per mile is $0.38 per mile (includes factoring in that car needs tires now and that'll run me about $400).

2009 Suzuki 1250SA Bandit, bought new, has 12K miles on it: costs factored in include purchase price, repairs, maintenance (I do my own), insurance, tags, accessories, tires (1 set so far, originals lasted 9K miles), and necessary gear to wear (wouldn't have to buy a helmet or jacket to drive a car, after all, so I figure that into the cost of ownership). Bike averages around 43 miles per gallon. Cost per mile with figuring its current trade-in value is over 98 cents per mile.

Not even close.

Naturally as more miles pile up on the bike its cost per mile will drop, but it has a long way to go to reduce its per-mile cost enough to get near the Civic's. Tires kill the bike - in 118K miles the Civic has used 3 sets of tires ($1200), in the same 118K miles the bike will require over 13 sets of tires (assuming they all go 9000 miles) at a cost of $5244. Tire costs for the Civic in 118K miles are a penny a mile, tire costs for the bike would be almost 4.5 cents per mile.

The only way the bike gets close is if I figure it against my 16 mile per gallon 4WD truck with its expensive All Terrain tires. But while the bike crushes it in fuel mileage, even there the truck will match or beat it in cost per mile because the tires go almost 50K miles a set and, well, because its a Toyota - there hasn't been a single repair cost in 110K miles.

Ride and commute on a motorcycle because you enjoy it, not because it saves any money. In most cases it doesn't.


jZ

 

, in the same 118K miles the bike will require over 13 sets of tires (assuming they all go 9000 miles) at a cost of $5244.

Damn dude, that is $403.38 a set

I'm only spending $230 for a set of Dunlop Q2's

 

I have a CBR 600RR and a guy who rides the exact same bike as me did a power point of expenses and it turns out that the bike cost more to maintain than a Honda Civic.

If the bike wont save me more in the commute, will it save me money compared to a truck?

In what universe is a truck cheaper to run than a Civic?

 

I'll make quick numbers, that no one will read because it's all about Prius versus superbike in here...

F650GS, the thumper, 60mpg. Tire set, $140 for Kenda K761, very popular tire with the DS crowd. A tire set should last for 9,000 miles, lets say both are changed at the same time, and that the set is $200 installed.

Chain & sprocket, DID X-ring, $200, good for 20,000 miles.

About scheduled maintenance, sparkplugs, air filter, valve clearance and fork oil every 12,500 miles, engine oil and filter every 6,000 miles and fuel filter every 25,000 miles.

Will calculate for 25,000 miles.

3 x tire sets: $600
2 x chain: $400
2 x 2 sparkplugs: $12
2 x air filters: $33
2 x 1 qt BMW Fork oil: $15
6 x BMW oil change kit (oil, filter, etc) filters: $260
1 x BMW fuel filter $151.15
2 x valve adjustment $400 (or DIY, $2.50 each shim, assuming you change all, $20)
3 x OEM Brembo brake pad sets: $420

It takes regular fuel, and assuming a high-ish $3.60 per gallon and a mid 65mpg...

417 gallons required, at $3.60, that's $1502 in fuel.

Total costs for 25,000 miles: $3794 or $0.152 per mile. That's assuming a midly competent DIY that can do everything but adjust the valves.


Going with BMW dealership rates, 6K miles service is $320 including parts, 12K service is $550 including parts...

That would turn into:

3 x tire sets: $700
2 x chain: $500
3 x 6K services: $960
2 x 12K services: $1100
1 x BMW fuel filter $151.15
3 x OEM Brembo brake pad sets: $570

417 gallons required, at $3.60, that's $1502 in fuel.

Total costs for a non mechanical inclined rider 25,000 miles: $5483 or $0.22 per mile.


Start with a couple years old F650GS, which hold their value pretty well, and you'll have a hard time finding anything cheaper.

Edit: Forgot to throw a quart of engine oil, shop towels and a brush to lube up the chain.


Depreciation! According to KBB a 2009 G650GS with ABS is $5847, a 2007 G650GS with ABS is $5410... Lets assume an even steeper depreciation, 25,000 miles is like "OMG, it's going to blow up" miles, so it will start as a $5847 bike and 2 years and 25K miles later end as a $4410 bike...

That's an additional $0.06 per mile, bringing the total to $0.21 per mile for the average DIY and $0.28 for the bonehead, even counting depreciation it's beating the old Civic.

 

It MIGHT depend on the truck. The old Mazda and Toyota 2-wheel drive mini-pickups could do 23-25 in normal driving with a manual transmission (I had a Mazda pickup before they were just re-badged Ford Rangers and I managed this mileage every day in my normal commuting). A loaded-up Honda Civic with automatic might do only 25-28 (or maybe less in the hands of, say, my mother, who has in her 60 years of driving consistently managed to get 3-5 miles per gallon less than the worst that any other person ever managed in the same vehicle). If maintenance/repair cost were lower on the truck than a Civic's and insurance was lower they could be close to equal. Sadly, you can't get these mini-pickups anymore ...

Now, a huge full-size V8-powered 4 wheel drive pickup is NOT in any universe going to get close.

 

If the bike is an actual replacement for the car or truck, it can save you money. If it is in addition, the difference in running costs will be unlikely to make up for the additional other costs.

Assuming replacement, the bike will be quite a bit cheaper IF it is an equivalent -- e.g. an economy bike or scooter is cheaper to run (buy, insure, depreciation, all running costs) than an economy car. A sportbike will be cheaper than a sports car. A sportbike will probably NOT be cheaper than an economy car.

A lot of it depends on a lot of individual factors -- your insurance rates, how much you ride, how hard you ride, how long you keep it, bought new or used, finance costs if not bought outright, etc. -- in addition to the choice of vehicles. You really have to work this stuff out for yourself to find out.

The CBR600 series is extremely durable and does not require much expensive care and maintenance. If you're using it mainly for transportation, and run it on sport-touring tires with a decent lifespan, it should be able to be cheaper than most cars or just about any truck, unless your insurance costs are high. (Again, assuming it's instead of, not in addition to, said car or truck.)

My data point is that my Ducati Monster has had a lifetime average cost (so far) of less than 20 cents a mile. As of about 3 years ago, it had been 15 cents a mile, but after it hit 170K I had to put a few grand into it, and I chose to do that rather than get something else. There aren't many cars you can run for much less than that. And the Ducati isn't the cheapest bike out there to run. But I've kept it and run it for many miles and a long time, and that spreads out the costs a lot and makes it cheaper per mile. And I've done so as my main transport without having a car. Under those conditions, it's been a great savings. YMMV.

PhilB

 

Okay lets say an ER6N vs Civic. The ER6N is not a high end sport bike, but will cost more to maintain in the long run vs the Civic right?

 

Depends. Maintenance only, probably yes, mostly due to tires. Cost of purchase, depreciation, cost of insurance, all favor the bike. Again, it depends on where you are, how much and how hard you ride/drive, etc. And how long a run -- if you're talking a long enough run, say 200K, where the car might need a couple of timing belts over that span, and eventually an engine rebuild, you tip back to the bike's favor there; the deep work is cheaper and easier on a bike. And so on.

PhilB

 

civic has a timing chain.
if you do regular maintenance on a car motor, most will go 200K+ and still have good compression. no rebuild necessary.
my car's at 260k+
sister's car's at 200K+
brother's car's at 200K+(1992 civic)
parent's at 210K+

a better comparison than a ER6N for a civic would be a 250/300 ninja.
ninja 250/300 quick calc 6000$(new bike)+1000$(gear)+10000$(maintenance)+16000(fuel-at 4$ gallon-50mpg)=33000$ to go 200,000 miles
Civic quick calc 18000(new car)+15000(fuel-at 3$ gallon- 40mpg)=33000$ to go 200,000 miles

now obviously i skewed these numbers heavily in the cars favour. i assume maintenance is done by magic, that the car will get better gas mileage than it is rated for. ect

Any thing under 200,000 miles and the bike is cheaper.

 

Yeah you did...

How did gas get to be $4 a gallon for the 250 Ninja and only $3 gallon for the Civic? They both take the same fuel, presumably at the same time-so the same cost per gallon and isn't the base civic rated for 31 mpg? while a 250 gets 60+ mpg
Who pays $6000 for a brand new Ninja 250--they were all over for $4200 OTD last year...then I also doubt you could buy a new Civic for $18,000 OTD, more like 21,000...you also added in 10k in maintenance costs on the bike(likely is closer to 7000) but none for the car (at a minimum you have 3 sets of tires and 50 oil/filter changes and a couple tune ups and brake pads/rotors/air filters/plugs/etc...)


What was the point of such a biased post that isn't even comparing apples to grapefruit, let alone apples to apples?

 

Example. Grahams now 20 odd year old Honda 650 shitehawk. Cost of purchase less than 1000 of your US buck's. Milage at purchase 10 years ago 50000, milage now 150000. Cost of chains -0, cost of major mechanical work - 0 , Costs incurred tyres, oil, headlight bulb, new handle bars and levers after a drop. And gasoline. Mot tests done by me through work so at trade cost to a buddy. We worked out all in its been cheaper than the bus or underground over the 10 years .

 

Take it from me, a budget commuter myself, pick your bike based on your city. I really like my 250 and its great for my commute. Its biggest advantage over any other vehicle I have owned is its ability to get great mileage despite the low speed stop and go nature of my commute and despite the fact that the stop and go part pisses me off and makes me leave every light floating the front tire... (56-60mpg doing with my 285lb ass on it, ~70mpg if you take it easy).
BUT if my commute were highway I would go with a big bore thumper. Don't get me wrong, it will do highway but its just no fun and the mileage is more like other bikes once above 65mph, so might as well be on one of those other bikes that doesn't suck at those speeds.

On that note, for the budget conscious person who does want a 250, within a 1000 dollar range of price difference I would take a WR250R or WR250X any day of the week over a ninja. The motor requires far less maintenance, makes more power, has more torque, the bike is lighter, and the mileage is a hair better, and it can rip off road too. Of course I would take the ninja 300 over those benefits but you can't buy those used yet.

 

One other thing for a commuter, sliders are a great investment even if you don't stunt or race. Mines gone down 4 times. Been backed into, pushed over, and a couple times me acting stupid in grass for fun. Total expense about $50 for new bars, throttle tube, and grips. Having no body work helps that too but I still would have rashed up my forks, swing arm, pipe.

 

If you really need a fucking spreadsheet to justify your bike, you don't belong on a bike in the first place.

 

Millions of people chose a bike for budget reasons. There is nothing wrong with that. Heck, one of the biggest benefits of my bike is I can go places across town for next to nothing in gas (AND enjoy the journey) where previously I would tell my friends "no thanks" because of the extra $10 it would cost me just to get there and back (AND the boring car ride).

 

Well most bikes will cost less long run than a truck. Much more so if you have an economy bike. Not sure I would call tires a wash but still probably better on a bike than a truck when all is said and done.


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com Free App

 

Well most bikes will cost less long run than a truck. Much more so if you have an economy bike. Not sure I would call tires a wash but still probably better on a bike than a truck when all is said and done.

Well, so much of it just depends on what kind of tires you run regardless of vehicle that its hard to make a call. I've had tires that cost $100 for a set and were showing almost no wear at 8k miles on my bike when I took them off, so I know it can be done.

 

My commute is 1000 miles per month. My car is a Chevy Trailblazer that gets 16mpg on average. My bike is an SV650 that gets 47mpg on average. I do all my own wrenching to include tire changes. My tires are Contimotions that are $160 a set shipped. I get 8k out of a rear and 16k out of a front.

I had put together an excel file that tracked all costs and I save about $200 per month commuting, and this is figuring in maintenance, tire, insurance, etc. cost. However, I have a pretty perfect situation to actually realize savings by commuting with a bike. I do my own maintenance, I have a pig of a car, a bike that gets good gas mileage and is cheap to maintain, and I have a moderately long commute.

 

I had put together an excel file that tracked all costs and I save about $200 per month commuting, and this is figuring in maintenance, tire, insurance, etc. cost.

Precisely why one needs "an F'ing spreadsheet" as someone so eloquently put it - without tracking the actual costs you gotta call "bullhockey" on anybody who claims that riding a bike saves money, because they simply don't know - they are just repeating what "everybody knows". The only truthful answer is "it depends on many factors". A spreadsheet makes it easy, plug in new numbers and you can calculate whether there really is a savings. I can run the numbers for my bike against my Civic (Civic wins), my Miata (Miata wins big), or my pickup truck (pickup loses, but not by that much) and know whether it's so. Change the bike to, say, a Harley V-Rod that is twice the price of my bike and struggles to get 30 miles per gallon, or to a sportbike in the hands of a teenage squid paying 3 grand a year for insurance, and even the truck might win. Change my commute distance, the bike, or the reliability of the 4-wheeled vehicles and the bike will easily win. It all depends ...

 

I can't lie. My zx14 saved me big and it didn't get great gas mileage. Somewhere around 37 or so mpg. I was riding it about 2000 miles a month for almost 3 years. If I had taken the truck that gets about 17mpg it would have cost a fortune.


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com Free App

 

I can't lie. My zx14 saved me big and it didn't get great gas mileage. Somewhere around 37 or so mpg. I was riding it about 2000 miles a month for almost 3 years. If I had taken the truck that gets about 17mpg it would have cost a fortune.

Geez, can y'all say "deferred maintenance"?!?

I had a ZX-14 for 26K miles, so I can speak more directly about them. I never saw 37mpg on it except for pure interstate runs - maybe 32 was my average. But let's use his numbers.

72000 miles (claimed - really???) / 37 mpg = 1946 gallons of gas. The truck would burn 4235 gallons. I'll arbitrarily pick $3 /gallon for regular (not knowing when this three year period was), and $.20 more a gallon for premium for the bike. So the truck would cost $12,705 in gas, and the bike would cost $6,227. Wow! You saved $6,500 in gas money over three years!

Now let's look at tires. My actual, real tire rate for sport tires on a ZX-14 was ~3,500 miles. Let's be generous and call it 4,000. A set of tires with mounting - I bought tires on sale and took the wheels in myself - no less than $300. That's $5,400 just in TIRES. In a truck I'd expect to go through two sets in that period, at about $1000/set. So $5,400 - 2,000 = $3,400. Half that fuel savings is gone, just in tires.

ZX-14, per the manual, calls for a valve adjustment every 15K miles. That's 5 of those (the first is at 600 miles), I paid about $300 a pop with the associated service. There's half the remainder of savings - down to $1,200!

I got 18K out of my OEM chain and sprockets, and they could probably have gone further. Let's say 24K, so you need three sets at $200 a set (chain, front, and rear). $600. Half the remainder, again.

How about fork service? The shops I know charge $75 a leg if you have removed them yourself, should be done every year. That's $150 three times for $450. I replaced my wheel bearings at 24K, and steering head bearings should definitely be done before 72K. That'll bring you up to $600 even if you do your own work. Fuel savings - gone.

Now, you can nickel and dime this for awhile from this point, adding a set of brake pads and shocks for the truck; but I'm going to come back with a new shock and brake pads for the bike, because you sure aren't riding an OEM shock for 72K miles - but you see how it shakes out. The bike requires much more and much more EXPENSIVE service than a car does. People who say they are saving money are *usually* ignoring either maintenance on the bike, or the cost of having done that maintenance.

KeS