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The Democrat party used to stand for the middle-class working person. The last 30-40 years has seen it shift to a party of garbage. Seems like the main thrust of the Democratic party is attempting to get handouts to people and supporting gay rights.

When will this party have clear goals? When will I be able to vote for a democratic rep for congress or senate that will worry more about jobs than taking my rifle away?
 

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Another brand new account, funny how that happens... :eek:nfloor
 

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Actually, I have very little to criticize about the dems these days. And I'm looking forward to them spending the next twenty years fixing the damage caused by the Republicans in their five short years of fucking up the country.

Clinton presided over a strong economy, a positive business environment, and a concern for the needs of ordinary people. I'd like to get back to that.
 

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Why do the Dems have it right when it comes to the Patriot Act? I cannot believe the liberals have our back on this one and the "small-government" party screams bloody murder when someone suggests the PA is a bad idea. Both parties seem too liberal for me. I'd like to see a new conservative party rise. I only would vote for Republicans because they are less inclined to get their hands in my gunsafe.
 

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Also, most new political agendas these days seem like platforms for admission into the EU. I don't want that.
 

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The democrats are fucking weasels, in fact they are worse than the Republicans in many respects. At least with the Republicans you don't have the pretense, unlike the disgusting democrats who pretend like they care about the people they are stabbing in the back.
 

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bugeyed said:
The democrats are fucking weasels, in fact they are worse than the Republicans in many respects. At least with the Republicans you don't have the pretense, unlike the disgusting democrats who pretend like they care about the people they are stabbing in the back.
What you are noting (however inaccurately) is the weakness of a system with only two voices.

But regular people's lives got better during the Clinton era. They've gotten worse during the Bush era. You can make up whatever rationalizations you'd like to explain your bad choices, but they won't change the reality.

During the Bush years, fake tax cuts, a fake energy policy, a fake health policy, a fake environmental policy, and a fake national security strategy have all had a detrimental impact on the lives of ordinary Americans. When you put the government in the hands of the leisure class this is what you get. Because the leisure class sees ordinary Americans merely as inventory, to be purchased at the lowest possible price, to be allocated as needed, and to be managed to ensure their continued leisure status.

Being a prick is simply not a strategy for successfully improving the lives of the most Americans. It's a philosophy that only appeals to the bitter and selfish. As a nation, we're divided between people who've figured this out and people who haven't.
 

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I hope 2008 will hold some good choices. I highly doubt it though. I heard the best way to trump the 2 party system is to start getting independents elected at the local levels, then congress, and perhaps the big seat after that.
 

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jim schmidt said:
What you are noting (however inaccurately) is the weakness of a system with only two voices.

But regular people's lives got better during the Clinton era. They've gotten worse during the Bush era. You can make up whatever rationalizations you'd like to explain your bad choices, but they won't change the reality.

During the Bush years, fake tax cuts, a fake energy policy, a fake health policy, a fake environmental policy, and a fake national security strategy have all had a detrimental impact on the lives of ordinary Americans. When you put the government in the hands of the leisure class this is what you get. Because the leisure class sees ordinary Americans merely as inventory, to be purchased at the lowest possible price, to be allocated as needed, and to be managed to ensure their continued leisure status.

Being a prick is simply not a strategy for successfully improving the lives of the most Americans. It's a philosophy that only appeals to the bitter and selfish. As a nation, we're divided between people who've figured this out and people who haven't.
Fake tax cuts, a fake energy policy, a fake health policy, a fake environmental policy, and a fake national security strategy all happened under the Clinton era, they just got considerably worse under Bush because the chickens are now coming home to roost after 30 years of living high on the hog off printing paper in lieu of revitialization of American industrial sectors. The world is increasingly becoming annoyed with accepting our worthless paper for their manufactured products and oil, which we now mostly import. Come this March the paper printing party is over when the Iranian oil bourse begins. Bush has been put in power by the same people who put that sleazebag Clinton in power, for the same reasons they put Hitler in power. They can no longer rely on smooth talking Clintonite shysters to convince people to be arrogant about their decaying station, because they know they are going to need fascists to control a jobless rabble. That's why Bush is in power, because the capitalist class is running scared. The Democrats and the Republicans are two factions of a business party, the Republicans represent the oil and financial business sectors, the democrats the technological buisness sectors. Neither of the represent working people, and as far back as the whigs and tories, never have.

Here is what happened in the Clinton era:

1) Massive building of prisons, acceleration of the drug wars which imprisoned a good portion of working class Americans including single mothers.

2) An unprovoked attack on a defenseless country, Yugoslavia, in order to secure pipeline routes out of the Caspian Sea basin, a predecessor to the Iraq war which was launched for similar reasons.

3) The forefather of today's Patriot Act with massive losses of American due process and constitution protections after the Oklahoma bombings (probably an inside job too).

4) Further widening of the borders, a huge influx of skilled immigrants from India and other countries at the behest of Microsoft and other technological companies that Clinton represented.

5) Absolutely no progress on the outrageous lack of health care of working Americans, in fact under Clinton the number of people without health care increased.

Taking one step backwards under Clinton instead of two under Bush doesn't mean you are making progress.
 

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Hell I have problems with both of them really.

Democrats want me to give my guns up.

Republicans want to empose christian values on me ie. anti abortion and the like.

I dont believe that the Democrats are for keeping the american economy any more healthy than the Republicans. I do believe that the Democrats would like to see more than 2% of the population with all the political sway, wealth and power so thats a positive.

Im with Woody on this, the tree needs to be shook really fucking hard. We need to promote independent "outside of the box" thinkers and make this country transform once again.

I think the best thing I heard in the last few years is when a 82 year old woman told me "It used to be that people loved the politicians.........now you just vote for the lesser of two evils." She believes that in her life time she has personaly witnessed the moral decay of political spearheads. Everything is about greed nowadays.
 

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jim schmidt said:
She's right about the present, wrong about the "good old days."
She could be, but I prefer to think that she was more with the idea of people "loved" the candidate that they were voting for.

Hell in this last election I was so damn confused. I hated both but I still went with Kerry even though he was a pansy.

Bush just has that shady look in his eye. Then he proves me right with his antics.
 

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hybrid said:
Hell I have problems with both of them really.

Democrats want me to give my guns up.
How so? They may advocate restrictions on carrying them - like voting against concealed carry laws, but I don't see them trying to take away the 2nd amendment. I, for one, value my dad's skills with a rifle because we get to eat lots of venison sausage, hot sticks, venison steaks, and ground venison. On the other hand, there is no reason for him to drive around in his truck with his rifle hidden behind his seat outside of hunting season. (He doesn't do this, by the way). What good could possibly come of anyone with a rifle/glock/insert favorite gun here under the seat of their vehicle? Just an example to demonstrate how absurd it is to take your guns to town.

"Leave your guns at home, Bill. Don't take your guns to town."
-Johnny Cash
 

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Assault weapons ban.............

Concealed carry

its all important to me. Solely because of the fact that laws against them only do harm to law abiding citizens.

Its like a lock really, it only keeps the honest people out.
 

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I am confused a little Jim...It wasn't Clinton's economy of the '90s...It was Bill Gates economy. It was Bill Gates and Microsoft, putting a pc on virtually every desk and in every home that created the business explosion of the 90's...it had nothing to do with Bill Clinton...

The Roaring '90s were created by the jobs, markets and sales created by the PC and following technologies...you ought to be old enough to remember...
 

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bumblebee said:
I am confused a little Jim...It wasn't Clinton's economy of the '90s...It was Bill Gates economy. It was Bill Gates and Microsoft, putting a pc on virtually every desk and in every home that created the business explosion of the 90's...it had nothing to do with Bill Clinton...

The Roaring '90s were created by the jobs, markets and sales created by the PC and following technologies...you ought to be old enough to remember...
Clinton was pro-business and pro-worker. You shouldn't underestimate the value of that policy balance. And you shouldn't underestimate the economic value of taking the US Government out of the competition for loan funds either. Lastly, he didn't fuck up anything in the business sector, in itself a valuable contribution.

Last I checked, just as many PCs are being sold today as during the Clinton years. Lots of people make shit up to avoid giving the more talented President his props. I don't really know if you made it up or got fooled by it. But it doesn't hold water.
 

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hybrid said:
Assault weapons ban.............

Concealed carry

its all important to me. Solely because of the fact that laws against them only do harm to law abiding citizens.

Its like a lock really, it only keeps the honest people out.
Why does an average citizen need an assualt weapon? I'm pretty sure any wild animal can be killed by your average rifle, or even a bow. Unless you plan on your front yard becoming a warzone in the near future, there's no reason for Joe Schmoe to own a Tec 9.
 
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