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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am fairly new to the "street bike scene", I have always been an MX guy, I was raised a gear head as well, so I love cars, until recently I have never considered a bike for the street, to be honest I much prefer 4 wheels and a steering wheel, 3 pedals... heel toe and rev matching on the twisty back roads through orange groves:D. meanwhile I have always thought the best thing you can do on 2 wheels, was catching air on my dirt bikes

though now, I have decided to put 2 wheels on the street, not sure why I never thought about it before honestly..., but once I started looking into the "culture" a little, I noticed the very large amount of new riders, seems every where I looked, it was questions about the "first bike" and there seems to be a large divide between those who know, and those who do not.. about the true nature of production sport bikes, the manufacture websites are to say the least, misleading... and all you seem to see on forums are strangers asking other strangers a question, then the answer being given only to be dismissed by the person who asked, giving what ever reasons he can to justify getting the bike he really wants

It seems very foreign to people who are not "bike" people, that they need to buy a bike they don't want... before they can be allowed to buy the one they do want, the problem is made worse when they go look at these bikes being ridden by experienced riders, making it look so easy.. then they see some "idiot" doing wheelies and crashing, they assume the bike is easy to ride.. but very powerful if you are not careful (curse youtube), which is true HOWEVER.. they have no idea how to be "careful" due to lack of experience, maybe we do need a "restriction" system like other countries

which brings me to my point.. sort of, everyone will be different.. so we will forget the learning curve for now, that said, what exactly defines a beginner? having never ridden any bike at all? I caught a little heat when I mentioned riding dirtbikes, but I believe that is viable experience given you are intelligent enough to use it properly, what exactly are the common mistakes that new riders make? lets say you are somewhat experienced on 2 wheels, won't drop the bike trying to walk in backwards out of a parking spot for example, not THAT much of a noob.. what are the skills required to ride a bike safely, ANY bike, you have to be able to manipulate the throttle with your right hand rather than your foot, same for the front brake, rear is still your right foot, shifting with your left, blah blah blah

lets say you can do all of these things, you have enough experience and muscle memory to grab the front brake and manipulate the rear with your foot, in a panic situation you will not lock either brake up and go down, or worse, same goes for the throttle, you have to hold onto the bike with your right hand.. and control the throttle AND the front brake, a mistake I made many times learning on a little 2stroke 85cc dirtbike, my first "wreck" my feet caught in the mud, dragging me off the back.. doing my best impression of superman, laying on the bike twisting the throttle wide open, had I been more experience I would have been alright.. but no, i let go of the throttle and highsided because my left hand jerked the bar, thankfully I was fine, nice soft south florida muck :D

I learned from that mistake, and bent the front wheel of my bike -.-, that was many moons ago, and not my last mistake to learn from, the hardest part is learning to acclimate yourself to the control scheme, I believe this is the most common reason for the suggestion of a 250 or similar small bike to learn on, but personally I think it may be a better decision to get a dirtbike for this learning stage, better to screw up and grab the front brake going for the clutch(for example) in a nice soft cow pastor.. than on the street in traffic, or even in a parking lot, asphalt hurts you and your bike worse than mother earth

of course there are a lot of other considerations before jumping on a streetbike, you still have to learn more, dirtbikes handle completely different in a turn, the traction and input are different, you still have to push your limits on the street to a degree in order to learn what they are, this process will be less costly if you lowside a 2-3k bike learning how to get a knee down.. than dropping a 10k supersport, but does that necessarily mean you could not ride something like a CBR600RR and be fine on it? putting aside the whole track day thing, and attacking the twistiest.. but if you are not going to do that, why get a supersport

it is quite the conundrum, so many people wanting a supersport.. that will NEVER even ride by a track, muchless on one, so why bother getting such a focused and uncomfortable bike? because they are fast and cool.. I suppose? this must be where the hostility comes from towards new riders wanting an R6 or something along those lines, they have no idea what kind of machine they are dealing with, and no idea what its like to ride a motorcycle on the street, forget about the ability to interface with the controls, spend very long on one of these track bikes in drag, and you'll probably wish you had a comfortable bike to ride, rather than an insanely powerful one you cannot even use

I tend to ramble on from time to time, hopefully someone gets what I mean here, I am not trying to solve the "noob" problem.. or even reach out to them and "show them the light" I am still a "noob" myself on the street, I am just trying to wrap my head around what most of you probably already fully understand, the ambitious new riders point of view, and why they make the mistakes they make, anyway.. just thinking outloud and thought I would share, hopefully some of you out there can add insight, maybe even tell me about your learning experiences, im sure there are people that learned something useful on the dirt, that carried over to the street? if only the well imprinted knowledge of how the controls work, becoming second nature etc. etc.

in closing, some things you just have to experience to learn, my first time locking the rear brake up resulted in the rear stepping out, my left foot going down and dropping the bike, boy that was a painful watch to stretch... anyway, the next week I was locking the rear wheel up constantly for fun, I could not have learned that from a book or even someone telling me, just like many many things in life, you have to try it to be able to do it, and unfortunately on a bike... when you don't do something correctly you can pay for it with blood, and its next to impossible to do something correctly your first time trying it, at least in a car when you swap ends trying to take a corner fast.. you have 4 wheels and a cage, rather than an expensive body bag to "protect" you
 

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First off, many people would dissagree with a tiered system. Frankly I dissagree as well, the bike cant kill you... you kill yourself. Those who can properly ride shouldnt be inconvienced by idiots. engine sizes are vary relative to whatever the bike actually is. Limiting CC's is dumb and wouldnt bring any good. It also violates our freedom to ride. The Government needs to worry about other things rather than worrying about what lind of sized bike and can and cannot ride. I value a good deal of my freedom, especially when I believe it to be in jeopardy.

Now dropping a bike is much different than you make it seem. You like to ride dirtbikes, but sportbikes and other bieks are much different. They can weigh more, and put you in an different position than your used to. And sometimes you can step on a rock or oil slick and go down. Things like that can happen and they happen to even the best of us. Just overcomming the newbie factor doesnt mean you will never drop your bike. You can and most likely will drop it by accident, maybe even multiple times. But thats part of learning.

A beginner period ends in different places for everyone. Dont worry about being a beginner or being an advanced rider. IMO a beginner is one who has a limited understanding compared to the rest of the motorcycling world. When you can say you've got more miles and training under your belt than many of the people you meet down the road you can call yourself an experienced rider.

Your partially wrong about starting on a dirtbike being better than starting on a 250. Sure you will have some more experience going into street riding, which is great and very helpful for many newbs. But dirt riding is different. You can develop many bad habits from it, but i would still agree it is benefitial. The real reason is that it is not practical to tell someone to buy a dirtbike and practice on that before they can ride on the streets. When people buy motorcycle they want to live it up and ride it how it is meant to be ridden, which is on the streets. Telling people to start on dirtbikes is an even more leghty process than it really needs to be. I know many people who have learned on 250's and all of them have done just fine.

Completely agree with you about newbies wanting something cool and fast rather than actually practical. Bravo for you noticing this as well without even having to buy a bike yet. Good post, +1
 

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I tend to ramble on from time to time, hopefully someone gets what I mean here, I am not trying to solve the "noob" problem.. or even reach out to them and "show them the light" I am still a "noob" myself on the street, I am just trying to wrap my head around what most of you probably already fully understand, the ambitious new riders point of view, and why they make the mistakes they make, anyway..
you ramble? noooooooooo

I bought an 02 zx6 for my first bike, and a month into riding i WAS the exception, psh i'm fine on this bike.

So a couple weeks past that i was pushing the bike to the limits of the tire with complete newb form, and right on the edge of crashing without even knowing it. Took two crashes at the track, and then another day back to get my confidence to figure out where the limit of i shouldnt be pushing any harder on the street is.

I think twice this summer i went into corners too hot, riding over my head, poor sight lines etc, and DIDNT trail brake even tho i know how to, but at least had the skills to keep it on the road, one of the times just barely.

Past that i didnt have much in the way of oh shit moments, and did handle the bike fairly well, but its those few situations that could have gone either way, as to why a SS bike probably isn't the best bet for a new rider. Being a little more experienced now i have bought an SV650 to turn into a dedicated track bike for next summer. I bought an SS bike because i didnt want a 250...the SV was suggested to me by many, but my ego got in the way of me listening. It honestly would probably the perfect starter bike for someone who naturally feels comfortable on a motorcycle.

EDIT: on the other hand i freakin love doing wheelies lol, and SV's dont like being wheelied, oil pickup isn't in a happy spot for that, so that would have sucked having it for a first bike.
 

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even the manufacturers say for experienced riders only.
 

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if you want to know when a newb is not a newb, wear out as much in tires as you weigh and then ask yourself again,:) the best is to always be a newb, that is where there is the greatest potential. balance of fear and faith in a beginners mind






Its good to have and end to your journey, but its the journey that is important, in the end
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
coulda fooled me.
I feel sorry for you in that case, being so easily fooled by what you see, I guess no one ever told you not to judge a book by its cover

j/k:lao

I had long hair years ago, down to my waist actually
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a31/ReQ-uiEm/PICT0015.jpg
I shaved it all off... though I miss is a lot -.-


as for my post, like I said.. just thinking out loud a bit, everyone learns differently, and some can grasp the concept of one action, by preforming a similar action, you can learn to shoot a rifle by shooting a shotgun.. though the two are very different, for example

I am not suggesting new riders go out and buy a dirtbike first, I was merely proposing that someone with a lot of experience on dirtbikes could skip the 250 stage, I doubt I would go for a SS bike but at least something larger, like the SV650 that usernamedoug suggested, there is no amount of skill that can overcome an accident.. so stepping on an oil slick and going down may be unavoidable.. but being distracted by the hectic traffic and making a mistake with the clutch or throttle on a very powerful bike, thereby having a crash.. can be avoided by a level of familiarity with the controls, so those little mistakes don't happen

as for riding too fast into a turn or some similar mistake, that does take experience ON the street, nothing else can prepare you for that, you have to learn the limits of grip on your bike, as was stated, I agree completely with that

don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to justify buying a faster bike for myself, I want a commuter bike primarily, albeit one that is at least somewhat sporty feeling/looking, I wish the Ninja 250 was just a little more comfortable for me :( considering the Hyosung GT250R now, since its larger.. I believe it uses a frame similar to the SV650, at least in dimensions, still caught up on the 250cc bikes, just a personal preference.. I am thankful they do not sell the 125cc 2-strokes over here for the street.. I would buy an RS125 without a second thought, and live with the small discomfort
 

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don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to justify buying a faster bike for myself, I want a commuter bike primarily, albeit one that is at least somewhat sporty feeling/looking, I wish the Ninja 250 was just a little more comfortable for me :( considering the Hyosung GT250R now, since its larger.. I believe it uses a frame similar to the SV650, at least in dimensions, still caught up on the 250cc bikes, just a personal preference.. I am thankful they do not sell the 125cc 2-strokes over here for the street.. I would buy an RS125 without a second thought, and live with the small discomfort
an ss bike doesnt really make that great of a commuter bike. especially if your already talking about getting a b***** sized bike. i would then guess that maybe your a "b*****" guy. FYI, ss bikes have the smallest ergos, even a 250 has a better riding position.

i own both a 600 and a 500, and for comfort and commuting id much rather be on the 500.
 

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i own both a 600 and a 500, and for comfort and commuting id much rather be on the 500.
you own a gixxer too tho, sat on my buddies 07 and i was like holy crap, peg's are higher then those on my 02 zx6 with riser plates. Great for a track weapon but a little bit rediculous for stock ergo's, you really shouldn't be pushing that hard on the street to need that kind of peg height.
 

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First off, many people would dissagree with a tiered system. Frankly I dissagree as well, the bike cant kill you... you kill yourself. Those who can properly ride shouldnt be inconvienced by idiots. engine sizes are vary relative to whatever the bike actually is. Limiting CC's is dumb and wouldnt bring any good.
No offense, but you are a NOOB, and a whopping 20 years old I see. A tiered system is almost a must with modern sportbikes. 1mm of throttle on a modern liter bike is totally different than 1mm of twist on any smaller bike. That translates to a totally different chassis reaction that can upset a less skilled rider and cause a crash. It is MUCH easier to become a skilled rider on a smaller discplacement bike. There are a hundred reasons a new rider may chop on/off the trottle while negotiating a corner or traffic. The effect of the throttle are lessoned on smaller/less edgy bikes allowing the new rider to focus on the other aspects of control.

You should have to prove/earn the ability to ride a 200hp bike, not just put down the cash. Too many people dying on bikes at their own hand. You need to realize that many of the early 1,000+ CC bikes had whopping HP numbers in the 30s. Even the very first GSXR1100 in 1985 only put out a whopping 85hp. To expect "any" new rider to be able to buy "anything" they want is irresponsible at best. We have long held on to "old" ways of thinking and passed them down.

Sure you will have guys that start on a 1,000 and "survive". You will even find a few that truely turn out to be "good" riders. But for the VAST majority that is not the case and it would be better for all of us if they were forced to learn on a smaller bike. Imagine trying to learn to drive in an F1 car?!!

Starting on a dirt bike is actually great bike control experience. Thottle control, braking etc are all valuable skills and will translate well to street riding. EVERY bikes dynamics are different and you should take the time to master every different bike you ride.
 

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Partially due to the reasoning of the OP's dirtbike experience is why i had no regards for what size bike i got as my first. If my funds could allow it i would have raced back in the day in my prime and if my local dealership had one on the lot id be riding a z1000 right now but instead i "settled" for the zzr600 (completely satisfied may i add).

10,000 miles may not be a lot but over those 7 months i learned so much that your post doesnt hold all the weight it COULD given you had a bike and experienced some of the crazy bullshit that can happen while your on one. A good general consensus is to start small so mistakes aren't amplified and damage typically costs less. Im sure anyone who truly loves to ride does not regret starting small if they did. They are not riding for image and squid business, they decided to take steps instead of leaps. One's ego is usually the deciding factor to whether you listen to people or not. If you decide to go against the suggestions of the veterans you better not f*ck up and stay true to your self-proclaimed reasoning or else you'll be hearing it when you come back to us with your story of what happened lol
 

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No offense, but you are a NOOB, and a whopping 20 years old I see. A tiered system is almost a must with modern sportbikes. 1mm of throttle on a modern liter bike is totally different than 1mm of twist on any smaller bike. That translates to a totally different chassis reaction that can upset a less skilled rider and cause a crash. It is MUCH easier to become a skilled rider on a smaller discplacement bike. There are a hundred reasons a new rider may chop on/off the trottle while negotiating a corner or traffic. The effect of the throttle are lessoned on smaller/less edgy bikes allowing the new rider to focus on the other aspects of control.

You should have to prove/earn the ability to ride a 200hp bike, not just put down the cash. Too many people dying on bikes at their own hand. You need to realize that many of the early 1,000+ CC bikes had whopping HP numbers in the 30s. Even the very first GSXR1100 in 1985 only put out a whopping 85hp. To expect "any" new rider to be able to buy "anything" they want is irresponsible at best. We have long held on to "old" ways of thinking and passed them down.

Sure you will have guys that start on a 1,000 and "survive". You will even find a few that truely turn out to be "good" riders. But for the VAST majority that is not the case and it would be better for all of us if they were forced to learn on a smaller bike. Imagine trying to learn to drive in an F1 car?!!

Starting on a dirt bike is actually great bike control experience. Thottle control, braking etc are all valuable skills and will translate well to street riding. EVERY bikes dynamics are different and you should take the time to master every different bike you ride.
Haha, well offense somewhat has been taken. Sure compared to some I am a noob, but I wouldnt call myself a noob to riding. I have 13,000 plus miles under my belt, regularly commute and split lanes in stop and go traffic safely, completed MSF BRC and ERC, and have already planned out an Iron Butt and Trackday next summer, member of the AMA for 2 years, been on coutless group rides, active member of my local motorcycling forum, ect. Inexperienced and relative begginner, I could go for... but noob, I feel I am not. My age shouldnt have much to do with anything, its how and how frequently you do ride that really counts. I would put my money on a 20 year old with 13,000 miles like I who commutes regularly, rather than a 2,000 mile a year weekend warrior in his 40's. There are 16 year old riders that can compete successfully in AMA sponsored events and win against 20-50 year olds. Age has nothing to do with experience on a motorcycle. You should know better by now at least.

I feel that your answer to a tiered system is a little bleeding liberal and far left. Why should I have to wait till im a certain age before I can buy a motorcycle? A newb who is 16 years old can kill himself just as easy as a 30 year old newb. Sorry but I dont want the government to micromanage my life anymore than it already is. They have no place to tell me what I can or cannot ride, and this is exactly why I have been an AMA member for 2 years. The AMA protects my rights as a motorcyclist and all motorcyclists alike. If someone was to propose a tieredd system I would gladly donate whatever I could to the organizations that lobby against it. It undercuts my freedom as an American, and I have the right to spend my money on what I want just as anyone else would on a motorcycle.

We already HAVE a perfectly good system that doesnt give people their M1's until they CAN demonstrate that they are competant to ride a motorcycle safely. You need to take the MSF BRC or either pass the test administered by the DMV. Have you forgetten about this? You claim as if we have no system at all, but we actually do :bitchslap

You are making too many assumptions and errors in your response. I'm not as newbie and stupid as you may assume me to be. But I thank you for the thought provoking response.
 

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Haha, well offense somewhat has been taken. Sure compared to some I am a noob, but I wouldnt call myself a noob to riding. I have 13,000 plus miles under my belt, regularly commute and split lanes in stop and go traffic safely, completed MSF BRC and ERC, and have already planned out an Iron Butt and Trackday next summer, member of the AMA for 2 years, been on coutless group rides, active member of my local motorcycling forum, ect. Inexperienced and relative begginner, I could go for... but noob, I feel I am not..
It kills me how new riders on the internet always claim their experience level by how many miles they have on their bike.

I'm a first year rider, put 10k kilometers on in a season and 9k of those miles were probably uneventful commuting 20k to and from work, riding to a local coffe shop, or what have you and have very little bearing on the instances where i've actually learned something.

As far as the arguement i think its pretty easy to see where the both sides are coming from and i think both have valid points. I dont believe the government should be able to say what i can and cant ride on the street. By the same token a huge problem has come from the fact at just how easy it is to obtain a new supersport. For a couple grand any idiot kid can get a descent quality bike with 120 hp. I guess it boils down to how much of a bleeding heart you have, i for one could care less if people want to write them selves off, mind you i'd probably be pissed if my 16 year old kid jumped on a litre bike with no riding experience.

oh and stick you might as well just buy a budget salvage bike and get some race plastics for it now. you have 1 track day planned?!?! i guarantee once you go you'll be hooked. 4 track days this season and i'm putting together a dedicated bike to run in the SV cup, once i get my intermediate plates i'm almost debating taking my street bike off the road so i can run SV as well as intermediate 600.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I personally am a fan of a well thought out tiered system, what we current have in most states is laughable, the MSF in my opinion will only teach you the bare minimum for riding a motorcycle, I have not taken it but I do know what it consists of and what it does not teach you, in my opinion.. its like taking a solider to a firing range, teaching him to operate a rifle, letting him have a few magazines to fire, then sending him off into a combat zone, without any other instruction or training o_O

i cannot speak for any other "tests" you mentioned.. but I do know that it is WAY too easy for any person who decides to get a bike, to go take the MSF and get his license with a basic knowledge of how a bike works... and then go buy a liter bike and hit the streets

I think we should be limited, maybe not by engine size but at least by horsepower, until you have logged enough miles to be considered experienced... of course there are a lot of things to take into consideration, different classifications on bikes, if you compare a Harley to a SS.. the power to weight ratio alone makes a huge difference, a lot of people could be upset if they were limited to 30-40hp.. and wanted a big American cruiser

a tiered system may not be perfect, but if we could somehow prevent the idiots from buying an extremely fast and powerful bike.. with little to no riding experience or skill, the streets would be a better place for us all
 

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We already HAVE a perfectly good system that doesnt give people their M1's until they CAN demonstrate that they are competant to ride a motorcycle safely. You need to take the MSF BRC or either pass the test administered by the DMV. Have you forgetten about this? You claim as if we have no system at all, but we actually do :bitchslap

You are making too many assumptions and errors in your response. I'm not as newbie and stupid as you may assume me to be. But I thank you for the thought provoking response.
You make a few yourself.

The MSF is NOT a silver bullet that will magically teach people what they don't know. MSF teaches you the controls and how to handle the bike in a PARKING LOT.

My GF just started riding. She is another one years and years on MX, Quads, yada yada, So she bought herself a 1994 Katana. OK cool.

So we try to get it plated so I can show her a few things. Can't. In New Jersey you can't get insurance with a permit, uh oh. No insurance, no tag, no tag, no street legal, right? So I sign her up for the next BRC at the local Community College. That was kinda of scary. Because Jersey waivers, the people that could barely pass the practical test with a 250 at 25mph NOW have full licenses. Unrestricted, all CC.

One women had her husband bring her new Sportster in the of his truck so she could ride home....she dropped it no more then a block away when a yield sign got the best of her. But hey, she was legal at that point.

They let me take the Daytona through the little lap course. I think so they could laugh that I could drag my palm around the corners but STILL not manage the small box. Oh well.
 

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Haha, Sure compared to some I am a noob, but I wouldnt call myself a noob to riding. I have 13,000 plus miles under my belt,

I'm sorry. I actually gave you more credit in my original post. 13,000 miles is laughable. You ARE more noob than I thought if you consider this "experience".

Hell, I don't consider myself an expert and I have been riding for 30 years with over 250,000 miles. We figured this out a little while back as I have been helping a friend learn to ride over the last 3 years. She has more miles now than you and is still a Noob!







regularly commute and split lanes in stop and go traffic safely, completed MSF BRC and ERC, and have already planned out an Iron Butt and Trackday next summer, member of the AMA for 2 years, been on coutless group rides, active member of my local motorcycling forum, ect. Inexperienced and relative begginner, I could go for... but noob, I feel I am not.
As long as we are in this discussion I feel it is fair for you to know where I come from. I have taught performance driving since the early 90s from beginners to Indy Car drivers. Taught for BMW, Audi, SCCA, NASA, and train the local Law Enforcement. I have a pile of my own trophies here related to auto racing and a few from motorcycle racing. I could go on for awhile here on the classes I have taken and taught on both autos and motorcycles.

In my early days I put on an average of 45,000 miles per year on a bike. Today I only do about 12,000 per year between my 3 bikes.

I am also a retired LEO and have seen the end result of people who *thought* they knew how to ride.

My age shouldnt have much to do with anything, its how and how frequently you do ride that really counts. I would put my money on a 20 year old with 13,000 miles like I who commutes regularly, rather than a 2,000 mile a year weekend warrior in his 40's.
I could care less about "age" it is experience that matters.


I feel that your answer to a tiered system is a little bleeding liberal and far left.
Do you even understand what you are talking about? I just proposed a VERY conservative measure to the problem. I'm a retired cop who owns a financial planning firm. I have never been accused of being "liberal":lao





Why should I have to wait till im a certain age before I can buy a motorcycle? A newb who is 16 years old can kill himself just as easy as a 30 year old newb.

First, you need to prove a certain level of reading comprehension. I never said anything about "age" and you keep harping on it.

What I said was that you need to prove yourself before being allowed to buy a larger more powerful motorcycle. Not this silly parking lot license test.

I do think you should be forced to be licensed on each level of motorcycle for a certain time and miles before being allowed to move up. That means that even if you start at 40 you may be 45 before you get to buy your big fat Harley. It also means that if your 20 you can't just go buy a 200hp liter bike the day you successfully negotiate some cones in a parking lot.

To race at the track you need to be licensed for every level you race. Someone has to sign off on you. So if a 16 year old can pass this testing for the track I'm all for it.




They have no place to tell me what I can or cannot ride, and this is exactly why I have been an AMA member for 2 years. The AMA protects my rights as a motorcyclist and all motorcyclists alike. If someone was to propose a tieredd system I would gladly donate whatever I could to the organizations that lobby against it. It undercuts my freedom as an American, and I have the right to spend my money on what I want just as anyone else would on a motorcycle.
You have been fed a line and bought it hook line and sinker. The only thing the AMA is protecting by preventing a tiered system is the purchase of Harleys. They want every 45 year old that has never ridden before to be able to go purchase a 1,500cc Harley with no barriers to do so.

A tiered system would protect you. It would keep the accident rate down and actually put more motorcyclists on the road. Which would keep your insurance costs down, etc. We would see all the super cool smaller bikes from Europe and Asia come over here. Harley would have to produce cool smaller bikes. Once you get thought the tiered system you can buy anything you want.





We already HAVE a perfectly good system that doesnt give people their M1's until they CAN demonstrate that they are competant to ride a motorcycle safely. You need to take the MSF BRC or either pass the test administered by the DMV. Have you forgetten about this? You claim as if we have no system at all, but we actually do :bitchslap

That test is the biggest laughable test on earth. All it shows is your ability to not stall the motorcycle while riding it around the parking lot. If you saw this as a challenge or in anyway a representation of your skills please sell your motorcycle now and save your own life.

I would at least like to see the same thought put into a motorcycle license as there is in a race license, if not more for street use since it is a more dangerous environment.
 
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