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mmm mmm good...
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I travel internationally on business, china, japan, singapore, taiwan, ireland, italy, germany, and a few others. And i don't speak anything but english. If an overseas entity wants services/mechandise, they should be ready to speak english, especially if those goods/services are based in ameica. period.
 

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RESIDENT ASSHOLE
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Sibling said:
1) French is also the International Language Please go ahead and start speaking it.
2)Our Country was founded under the basis that anyone could come in speaking any language and still get along.
3) No your family threw away their culture in order to fit into a culture which doesn't have one. 200 hundred year history is not culture. If you haven't noticed people who are bilingual are getting better jobs than you are. So your family throwing away their culture has hurt you in the long run.
I speak one international language if french is also considered one, I wouldnt need to speak it would I? They would be considered as equals.


My family threw away what? Oh thats right, their culture..........funny, how would it be that they should keep it? They were no longer in Italy, but had become AMERICANS.

I am bilingual, I dont get paid anymore for being bilingual.

The biggest reason people are paid to be bilingual is because of our useless ways of catering to it. You might want to be bilingual in international business, and for that purpose I see it quite well. Last time I checked my local Circle K wasnt in international territory.
 

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RESIDENT ASSHOLE
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Sibling said:
Your family truely believed that speaking italian would somehow fuck up your English? I speak fluent Spanish without any accent. I also speak fluent English with out ANY accent. I can understand Italian, some German, and Porteguese. My English is perfectly fine and believing that learning two languages somehow messes you up is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.
Im sorry, why dont you refer to your sexy's post about china town........if you need not learn english and use it well, your chances of becoming successfull in mainstream america have just been cut dramaticaly.

My family believed that it was better to utilize the primary language than to let us get along with shit for english and great italian. While I dont necessarily think its true for 3rd and 4th generation immagrants, such as myself, it definetly made sense for my grandparents who were the taught Italian as a first language and english as a second. The rationale was to make my parents speak english, to give them the best chance at succeeding. Only after the lineage had been established did we start to bring it back into the family.

You cant argue with fact, most immigrants choose to speak their native tongue instead of strain with english, more often effecting their childrens ability to learn it. I know this first hand, teachers complaining that they need translators in school to teach class. Then when they meet the parents the parents arent interested in learning the language to help the children.

Its a far b***** problem than you let seem to be
 

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hybrid said:
Im sorry, why dont you refer to your sexy's post about china town........if you need not learn english and use it well, your chances of becoming successfull in mainstream america have just been cut dramaticaly.

My family believed that it was better to utilize the primary language than to let us get along with shit for english and great italian. While I dont necessarily think its true for 3rd and 4th generation immagrants, such as myself, it definetly made sense for my grandparents who were the taught Italian as a first language and english as a second. The rationale was to make my parents speak english, to give them the best chance at succeeding. Only after the lineage had been established did we start to bring it back into the family.

You cant argue with fact, most immigrants choose to speak their native tongue instead of strain with english, more often effecting their childrens ability to learn it. I know this first hand, teachers complaining that they need translators in school to teach class. Then when they meet the parents the parents arent interested in learning the language to help the children.

Its a far b***** problem than you let seem to be
I had a college friend whose parents were from Mexico. They learned English and did their best to not speak Spanish around their son. He grew up a white boy with a Mexican last name. When we met in college, he was going through somewhat of an identity crisis. He didn't know Spanish, but wanted to feel connected to his heritage. He wanted to be able to speak with his abuela when they would visit her in Mexico. He was angry at his parents for taking that away from him. He started taking college level Spanish to rectify this, but the point is, I think (and he strongly demonstrated) that it is more detrimental for one to lose their culture, heritage, and language for the sake of assimilating than it is to retain it.

When people say they're AMERICAN, what does that mean? Does that mean you are from the United States? To the contrary, I would say that it means you are anywhere from Argentinian to Canadian to Mexican to Brazilian. All of these countries are on AMERICAN continents. Someone from Costa Rica can say they are an AMERICAN because they live in Central AMERICA. To say that being AMERICAN equates assimilation, I think, is faulty logic.
 

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sexyicecold said:
I had a college friend whose parents were from Mexico. They learned English and did their best to not speak Spanish around their son. He grew up a white boy with a Mexican last name. When we met in college, he was going through somewhat of an identity crisis. He didn't know Spanish, but wanted to feel connected to his heritage. He wanted to be able to speak with his abuela when they would visit her in Mexico. He was angry at his parents for taking that away from him. He started taking college level Spanish to rectify this, but the point is, I think (and he strongly demonstrated) that it is more detrimental for one to lose their culture, heritage, and language for the sake of assimilating than it is to retain it.

When people say they're AMERICAN, what does that mean? Does that mean you are from the United States? To the contrary, I would say that it means you are anywhere from Argentinian to Canadian to Mexican to Brazilian. All of these countries are on AMERICAN continents. Someone from Costa Rica can say they are an AMERICAN because they live in Central AMERICA. To say that being AMERICAN equates assimilation, I think, is faulty logic.
First Paragraph: Ok, let's throw out the word "culture" and just use the word "way of life". Now we can all agree that people from the United States have established a way of life. When I say "assimilate" I mean that you either live our way or at very least don't disturb our way. When my family came from Europe they spoke German in the family but English elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with that or with speaking Spanish in the family and the parents you described seem like they had good intentions but took it a little too far. The description of "white" you gave your friend is absolutely racist though and is what holds back so many blacks and latinos from doing well in school and life. Every time they speak properly and do well academically they're accused of being white. So I'd be more careful about throwing that word around. My point is that people need to be more like adults and separate their ancestry from the people that they are. So if a Mexican guy (obviously unlike your friend) wants to come to the US and live our way of life and be "white" as you would call him, there's nothing wrong with that.

Second Paragraph: Utter childish semantics. Literally, this is how a four-year-old would argue.
 

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RESIDENT ASSHOLE
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sexyicecold said:
I had a college friend whose parents were from Mexico. They learned English and did their best to not speak Spanish around their son. He grew up a white boy with a Mexican last name. When we met in college, he was going through somewhat of an identity crisis. He didn't know Spanish, but wanted to feel connected to his heritage. He wanted to be able to speak with his abuela when they would visit her in Mexico. He was angry at his parents for taking that away from him. He started taking college level Spanish to rectify this, but the point is, I think (and he strongly demonstrated) that it is more detrimental for one to lose their culture, heritage, and language for the sake of assimilating than it is to retain it.

When people say they're AMERICAN, what does that mean? Does that mean you are from the United States? To the contrary, I would say that it means you are anywhere from Argentinian to Canadian to Mexican to Brazilian. All of these countries are on AMERICAN continents. Someone from Costa Rica can say they are an AMERICAN because they live in Central AMERICA. To say that being AMERICAN equates assimilation, I think, is faulty logic.
So your telling me that his parents making sure he was brought up to utilize the best education that the United States had to offer was wrong?

Obviously his parents had the same idea. If they banned their own culture in the home, that was their decision.

Im sure him being upset with his familia is far easier to deal with than him being angry at the world because he wasnt afforded the same "opportunities" that everyone else is with proper english both grammar and verbal.

I dont see why you continue to dodge the obvious. You want me to not tout my family's sacrifice to become part of this wonderful country but arent you doing a disservice to your lineage by forgeting the sacrifices they made? Im sure your great great great grand parents would be horrified if you were telling the world to go ahead and keep all their previous lifes alive and well, to not blend into a new culture and unify.

Just how is it you think we became such a super power in the first place? At one point in time, we were unified and a singular organism. Now? Not so much.
 

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cycledesign said:
First Paragraph: Ok, let's throw out the word "culture" and just use the word "way of life". Now we can all agree that people from the United States have established a way of life. When I say "assimilate" I mean that you either live our way or at very least don't disturb our way. When my family came from Europe they spoke German in the family but English elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with that or with speaking Spanish in the family and the parents you described seem like they had good intentions but took it a little too far. The description of "white" you gave your friend is absolutely racist though and is what holds back so many blacks and latinos from doing well in school and life. Every time they speak properly and do well academically they're accused of being white. So I'd be more careful about throwing that word around. My point is that people need to be more like adults and separate their ancestry from the people that they are. So if a Mexican guy (obviously unlike your friend) wants to come to the US and live our way of life and be "white" as you would call him, there's nothing wrong with that.

Second Paragraph: Utter childish semantics. Literally, this is how a four-year-old would argue.
He called himself a white boy. Those are not my words. I was recounting his story, not my verson of it. Maybe I should have made that clear to avoid people calling me a racist 4 year old. :rolleyes

Also, I doubt most 4 year olds even know the word semantics, let alone be able to use as an argumentative tactic. Puhleez.
 

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hybrid said:
So your telling me that his parents making sure he was brought up to utilize the best education that the United States had to offer was wrong?

Obviously his parents had the same idea. If they banned their own culture in the home, that was their decision.

Im sure him being upset with his familia is far easier to deal with than him being angry at the world because he wasnt afforded the same "opportunities" that everyone else is with proper english both grammar and verbal.

I dont see why you continue to dodge the obvious. You want me to not tout my family's sacrifice to become part of this wonderful country but arent you doing a disservice to your lineage by forgeting the sacrifices they made? Im sure your great great great grand parents would be horrified if you were telling the world to go ahead and keep all their previous lifes alive and well, to not blend into a new culture and unify.

Just how is it you think we became such a super power in the first place? At one point in time, we were unified and a singular organism. Now? Not so much.
I've already explained to you that at that age you can learn both English and Spanish with out a problem as long as both are taught. Teaching only English because people somehow beleive that teaching other languages will screw them up is stupid. How we became such a huge super power? BECAUSE WE HAVE IMMAGRANTS. We have people that speak every single language in the world. We have people that have different points of view on everything. We have people that have experienced everything. Also I am White, yet I speak Spanish for those who think its racist to call that guy a white boy try getting asked every day why you have a Spanish name and last name.
 

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sexyicecold said:
He called himself a white boy. Those are not my words. I was recounting his story, not my verson of it. Maybe I should have made that clear to avoid people calling me a racist 4 year old. :rolleyes

Also, I doubt most 4 year olds even know the word semantics, let alone be able to use as an argumentative tactic. Puhleez.
Ok, this will be my last response. You can of course continue if you wish. I'd just like to point out that even in your defense, you continue to use the same childish tactics. A criminal doesn't need to know the definition of larceny to commit it. And it's commonly known by... pretty much everyone that "arguing semantics" is what children and untalented comedians do. Go ahead and roll your eyes, don't bother to actually form a logical, coherent argument.
 

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Sibling said:
1) French is also the International Language Please go ahead and start speaking it.
2)Our Country was founded under the basis that anyone could come in speaking any language and still get along.
3) No your family threw away their culture in order to fit into a culture which doesn't have one. 200 hundred year history is not culture. If you haven't noticed people who are bilingual are getting better jobs than you are. So your family throwing away their culture has hurt you in the long run.
I'm sure Bill Gates speaks a number of languages as does Linus Torvalds, the dude who created Oracle, and the CEO of IBM too. Yes..they have MUCH better jobs because they speak multiple languages. :rolleyes
 

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Sibling said:
2)Our Country was founded under the basis that anyone could come in speaking any language and still get along.
Read this to see how well we'll all get along if everyone just starts speaking their native language and don't bother to learn English: http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?t=301299&page=1


Now I understand keeping your native culture in the family and that's what my family does. My family stills cooks German food and it's a family tradition to at least learn basic German, my mom taught me when I was little. But we don't parade around saying that people need to cater to us because we would rather speak German than English.
 

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cycledesign said:
Ok, this will be my last response. You can of course continue if you wish. I'd just like to point out that even in your defense, you continue to use the same childish tactics. A criminal doesn't need to know the definition of larceny to commit it. And it's commonly known by... pretty much everyone that "arguing semantics" is what children and untalented comedians do. Go ahead and roll your eyes, don't bother to actually form a logical, coherent argument.
Your flinging of insults and not replying to the substance of my argument proves two things:

1. you are flaming me - is that not childish? pot calling the kettle black, perhaps.
2. you haven't responded to the points of my arguments throughout this thread. you jumped on one post and attacked my character, calling me childish and racist. when i explain why your name calling is off-base, you continue and disregard my very logical explanation (not my words, his). in short, you cannot debate, you merely name call.

when you have an actual response to the issue at hand, please contribute. until then, take your own advice and refrain from posting in this forum.
 

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EEfz6 said:
I took the language of the English. Now, they effectively control my thoughts. Thanks for clearing that one up. I have been convinced for a long time that England is basically our little bitch. I wonder why the British put that thought in my head, seeing as how they control my thoughts because I speak their native language.
Yep, you think in English terms, your thoughts follow the patterns of the language and the ideas contained within it.

A simple example of this is the Eskimo terms for snow and the Arabic words for camel. Another is the Spanish concept of the "no-fault se". A study in linguistics, communication, and sociology might reveal some larger concepts to many of the opinionated types in this thread.
 

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license2ill said:
Yep, you think in English terms, your thoughts follow the patterns of the language and the ideas contained within it.

A simple example of this is the Eskimo terms for snow and the Arabic words for camel. Another is the Spanish concept of the "no-fault se". A study in linguistics, communication, and sociology might reveal some larger concepts to many of the opinionated types in this thread.
Excellent point. In English, we take blame for something "accidental" happening. We say, "I broke it." In Spanish, it's said this way, "It broke on me." se me rompio.

Another example, English: I forgot my keys.
Spanish: "Se me olvidaron las llaves." or "The keys forgot themselves on me."

You literally cannot say "I forgot my keys" or "I broke something" in Spanish. The language is not constructed that way.
 

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RESIDENT ASSHOLE
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And this has what to do with speaking english in america?
 

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sexyicecold said:
Excellent point. In English, we take blame for something "accidental" happening. We say, "I broke it." In Spanish, it's said this way, "It broke on me." se me rompio.

Another example, English: I forgot my keys.
Spanish: "Se me olvidaron las llaves." or "The keys forgot themselves on me."

You literally cannot say "I forgot my keys" or "I broke something" in Spanish. The language is not constructed that way.
Se me an olvidado las llaves. The way your saying it is slang. lo e roto is how you would say I broke it. Sorry if its all miss spelled but my Spanish writing is completly gone to shit over the years. Back on topic I am not saying everyone should be allowed to speak their own language. They should all have to speak English to be here but at the same time you can't blame a new immagrant for not knowing English. (btw English is probably one of the hardest languages to learn completly because of its rules and exceptions to the rules .etc)
 

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Sibling said:
Se me an olvidado las llaves. The way your saying it is slang. lo e roto is how you would say I broke it. Sorry if its all miss spelled but my Spanish writing is completly gone to shit over the years. Back on topic I am not saying everyone should be allowed to speak their own language. They should all have to speak English to be here but at the same time you can't blame a new immagrant for not knowing English. (btw English is probably one of the hardest languages to learn completly because of its rules and exceptions to the rules .etc)
As I have spoken with native Spanish speakers trying to learn English, they have confirmed that English is one of the most difficult, if not the most, to learn. This is because English borrows from many other languages. It does not have it's own set of absolute rules like most romance languages.

As for your Spanish - were you trying to correct me? If so, what I was demonstrating was not slang. It was correct. You admit your spelling has gone to shit, so you should probably check it before you try to correct someone else, eh? "Se me han olvidado las llaves" merely changes the phrase from "I forgot my keys" (se me olvidaron las llaves) to "I have forgotten my keys." Neither is incorrect grammar, yours is just a different tense and spelled incorrectly. As for "lo e roto," please show me how that is even close to "I broke it." Translation = the broken e.
 
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