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Discussion Starter #1
Oh the joys of being branded public enemy number one......

Rumor has it now that in CO Springs the fuzz has undercover assholes on sportbikes that try to mingle in and then report where we're riding to or if anyone does any stunts. Tax dollars at work.

Mind you, we have a sizable gang problem here, several rapes and murders a year, and a few hundred meth labs operating. But us bikers, WE'RE the fucking problem it seems.

It's gone downhill. The cops used to tell us to go out east (the vast nothingness that is east of the Rockies) to ride or stunt. Last year they followed us around with their precious helicopter. This year they're on us like stink on shit.

All it's accomplished? The attitude now is that if we're gonna get pounded for a ticket for a wheelie out in the desert, might as well save the gas and do them on main street. Big success. (roll eyes)

The state cops seem cooler. One had me dead to rights for a rolling stoppie (in the industrial section of town, abandoned at midnight when we were there) but let me go.
But undercovers???? WTF? Like there isn't real crime going on here. You can sit at a park downtown and watch high schoolers buy meth, but god forbid anyone hoists a wheelie.........

I'm just ranting. Tired of paying taxes to be wasted on a non-issue like the bikers in this town, all the while real crime is rising and the powers that be see dollars signs from handing out tickets to the only people actually paying attention on the road. The undercover rider thing is just beyond asinine.
The effect? New riders are shunned and rides and riding areas are now closely held secrets. New guys aren't trusted and anyone that doesn't try to keep up when the going gets fast is branded a cop and ignored. All they did was make the community go further underground. Hasn't stopped a single stunter from doing them, or a single fast guy from dragging knee. Tax dollars at work......
 

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Resident Freak
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Bitching or not, it's nice to hear from ya again, Solly -
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I've been too busy riding to hang out here much, but thanks for noticing I'm back.

We always welcomed OFF DUTY cops to ride with us, and yes, all of them were big stunt guys.
Now the word is they are plants. On duty and there to rat us out. Now, as if it wasn't waste enough to fly a million dollar chopper around chasing any group of three or more motorcyclists so they can write a $58 ticket (careless driving). But now they have to pay for a sport bike, insurance, etc just to plant some snitch bitch in our groups of friends. It's just stupid. Instead of beef up the homicide dept, nail a few more meth labs, or nab DUI cases, they chose to piss away tax dollars to write a few more tickets to bikers. I think the cops just watch way too much TV and spend their money trying to be super slick undercovers---on a free and open group of people.
As I said, the only effect has been shunning new riders and increased animosity towards outsiders. And the fact that now virtually anyone you ask will simply run from flashing lights. People will run now just on principal. Just in two years, the cops have become complete assholes. And in that time there has been no real increase in crashes or injuries, no real cause to focus on us (except they can write tickets and bankroll more stupid projects), all the while violent crime goes unchecked. People now loathe cops when we used to be cool with them and shoot the shit.
There are some good examples. Some cops let us go, tell us to cool it. Others think they are rookie of the year for writing up a 4 point ticket. Fuck, I don't even know how many points I have. I get in more trouble in my truck.

Last month not only did the people doing wheelies get tickets, but so did everyone PARKED watching them....To a one, everone who got that shit is fighting it. But as it stands, simply being on a bike NEAR someone that does something is enough to get ticketed.
The list for the stunter:
Careless or reckless- 4 or 8 points respectively.
Racing (if more than one bike is on the road, even travelling in opposite directions)- 8 points.
Speeding- 2 points
Exhibition of speed/acceleration- 4 points.
and anything else they can laundry list.

All while people are afraid to let their kids out of sight, our meth problem has exploded, and gangbangers own the public areas like malls and clubs. I had to keep my leather on inside a club the other day because I had a CU hockey jersey on. Seems gang fags are partial to hockey gear. No hockey jerseys allowed. I was made to take off my gloves in a mall because it's a 'gang thing' apparently to wear gloves inside, even in the dead of winter.
If the gangs are that bad- how can they justify the expense wasted on a few (there's maybe 25 core riders and 25 occasional guys in our group) bikers. Hell, there's all of 4 Ruff Riders in the whole town. No one else has colors of any kind (except the Harley guys in Sons of Silence). But I promise you that you could score a teener of crystal not 50 feet from any junior high school in this town.
 

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Suzuki 3000GT
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Man, that's bullshit. They want to crack down on the easy petty shit, but they can't solve a much more serious crime like the ones you mentioned.
 

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Sounds like quite a few of those tickets could get thrown out easily. Unless they've changed actual laws (racing in opposite directions? that's new), it sounds like they're just tossing as much shit at the fan as possible hoping nobody fights them on it.
 

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Yeah I can somewhat understand where your coming from. Neighboring city has a pretty big crime problem, lots of robberies, etc. They also have a long strip of road people cruise through the cioty on the weekends, and some of these people hang out at the walmart parking lot, away from where people actually park to go inside, and these people always get hassled by the cops to leave.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh, I have no doubt you could get many tickets thrown out. But then you have to pay a judge for the time (and associated paperpushers), supeona a cop (they are here in CO, so they WILL show up if you fight it), taking that cop off the street for that time, make you miss work to fight what is obviously bullshit, etc. I have better things to do, the cops damn sure ought to have better things to do, and I can only assume a judge should have better things to do too.

A simple cost analysis should show that this is a giant waste of tax dollars and a shining example of discrimination against bikers.
 

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No limit hypocrite
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hey man.. I sympathize.. Co Springs has ALWAYS been little Nazi-ville.. Pull you over and check your window tint with a gradient scale.. what is that shit.. I got a ticket 3 years ago for having window tint 5% over what they allowed.. Even though it was legal in Denver, they wrote me the ticket, and threatened to have me tear it off right there on the side of the highway..
On the way back from the AMA races last month, there was a cop Radar gunning everybody on the Cimmaron Exit ramp.. Even when we were stopped, he kept the gun pointed at us.. WTF?
But youre exactly right.. At Tinsletown, you cant walk 20' without someone in COLORS eyeballin you, and the cops dont do shit.. Never thought I would say this, but thank GOD I live in Denver.
 

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I dont know what the laws are in CO but here in arkansas if you ask them if there a cop they have to tell you. We've heard they're going to do the same here we just go around asking everyone we dont know if there a cop or not. So far no hits but if they are ask them if they are on duty or just dont do stuff with them. We have maybe 1 or 2 cops in the whole city thats cool but the rest mess with us everytime we go out.
 

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Don't Mess With Texas
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JonLD said:
I dont know what the laws are in CO but here in arkansas if you ask them if there a cop they have to tell you. We've heard they're going to do the same here we just go around asking everyone we dont know if there a cop or not. So far no hits but if they are ask them if they are on duty or just dont do stuff with them. We have maybe 1 or 2 cops in the whole city thats cool but the rest mess with us everytime we go out.

That's not true, US Supreme Court ruled on that some years ago. I don't recall the exact case name, but police do not have to reveal their identity in the course of an undercover operation - in any state.
 

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No limit hypocrite
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snakemann said:
That's not true, US Supreme Court ruled on that some years ago. I don't recall the exact case name, but police do not have to reveal their identity in the course of an undercover operation - in any state.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the undercover cops also cant ask you to do anything illegal, or push you to do something like a wheelie.. That would be entrapment, wouldnt it?
 

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Don't Mess With Texas
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Punkwood2k said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the undercover cops also cant ask you to do anything illegal, or push you to do something like a wheelie.. That would be entrapment, wouldnt it?
It all depends on the circumstances and it varies.

Entrapment occurs when the government induces a person to commit a crime and then tries to punish the person forcommitting it. However, if a judge or jury believes that a suspect was predisposed to commit the crime anyway, the suspect may be found guilty even if a government agent suggested the crime and helped the defendant to commit it. Entrapment defenses are therefore especially difficult for defendants with prior convictions for the same type of crime.
 

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F-You and Yourspace!
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Solly - It's not that "bikers" are more of a problem than meth, rapes, or murders. It's that the biker problem is something they can immediatly be delt with. They show force, people disperse for a while, all is well.
 

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snakemann said:
It all depends on the circumstances and it varies.

However, if a judge or jury believes that a suspect was predisposed to commit the crime anyway, the suspect may be found guilty even if a government agent suggested the crime and helped the defendant to commit it. Entrapment defenses are therefore especially difficult for defendants with prior convictions for the same type of crime.
Oh, so in other words, we're screwed. Since EVERYBODY knows, that EVERY SINGLE motorcyclist pops wheelies and we ALL speed.. I hate being generalized, especially when it costs me money and points on my license.
 

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I can understand the frustration in ticketing stunters in the middle of the desert, but if the drug problem is as bad as you say, then those cops are probably just in their version of training. I wouldn't wanna throw a rookie into a bunch of drug smugglers right at the start of his career.
 

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I guess the chances of ending up at the bottom of a river are a lot slimmer infiltrating a sportbiker gang than a biker gang. Dealing with real crime is a lot harder than handing out traffic tickets. It's too bad we can't convince our police forces to work a little harder.
 

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I ride with LEO's. When they are off duty, they ride just as hard and fast. But like Solly said, we take it out of town and away from people, usually out into the forest. I also know that many sportbiker "groups" are hip deep involved in trafficking. Maybe Colorado LEO's are picking on you. Maybe they have a reason to...
 

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You don't get it

You just don't get it dude.

Cops need busts. Of whatever type. It's called "getting statistics." "Our dept made 1500 arrests last year with 1499 convictions or plea bargains, netting the (State, City, County) XXX,000 dollars in blah blah blah.
"Now I'm sure you can see why we need a b***** budget, more officers, more supervisors, more bikes, more cars, more machine guns...."

The meth people got game. Yes, you know where to go to buy drugs, but the cops can't figure it out? Right. Money is changing hand at some level.

Bikers aren't paying for protection, and you are an easy target. Ma and Pa Kettle channel flip and see "Biker Boyz" and are horrified. Everyone has a baseline distrust of motorcyclists, whether they are on Harleys or sportbikes. "Those things (got too fast; are too loud; are dangerous; make our insurance go up; if they are not wearing a helmet, they should let them die, etc etc etc.)

What can you do? Trust no one. Unless they are personally known to you. And get your buds together and buy some property in the desert for stunts.


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