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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2005 FZ6 with 25,000 kms. It is time for me to move over to a full sized touring bike, as my riding is now limited exclusively to touring (I commute 20 kms each day to work exclusively with my bicycle or running shoes).

A few weeks ago I completed a four day ride over 3,000 kms through the twisty mountain roads of eastern British Columbia. The month before that I did a three day ride over 1,500 kms around Vancouver Island, which included terrain varying from coastal highways to gravelled logging roads. Both trips were spectacular with extremely exciting, skill-demanding roads. The FZ6 is the best bike in the 600cc class I have ever ridden for this type of riding. It is wonderfully balanced and gifted with abundant power. Its geometry and ergonomics ensures physical comfort for the rider's body geometry and seating posture. I must confess that most of my touring routes are rich in twisty and mountainous roads, for which I shift into a racing posture around the bends, then ten minutes later I may be given the occasion to sit up for a few minutes on a short straight section. The continual repositioning of my body to suit the road conditions ensures that I am not locked down long enough to ever get cramped.

My tours on the FZ6 have been fraught with only one type of discomfort. My ONLY problem with the FZ6 as a long distance tourer is the incessant and painfully loud wind noise. Even then I protect my hearing with custom moulded silicone ear plugs and the best flip-up helmets I can find from Shoei (Multitec) and BMW (System 6). I have experimented with various riding positions but to no avail. The first few hours each day of a tour is fine, but come the fourth to sixth hour and onwards, the discomfort is intolerable - despite my insistence to ride on each day, given my itinerary. To cope, I usually lie my chest fully down on the tank, with my helmet below the boundary layer of trailing air from the wind screen (I have a stock screen). Note, some noise is also coming from the engine spinning along at 7000 to 8000 rpms - although this seems to be a minor source of the noise in comparison to wind.

I have judged the solution for me is to move up to a full touring bike. The larger body fairing will reduce some ambient noise; the full size wind screen will dramatically reduce direct wind impact and noise; the larger engine displacement will allow it to spin at half the rev's for the same speed, resulting in reduce mechanical noise; the shaft drive will also reduce mechanical noise.

My only candidate touring bike is the BMW K1300GT. Nonetheless, I had the opportunity a week ago to test ride a 2009 Honda ST1300, which I did merely to evaluate the effectiveness tall wind screens. With great relief, its wind screen adjusted in the raised position completely eliminated ALL wind impact noise. This essentially confirmed my course of remedy. As an aside: the ST1300 was a fine ride but not enjoyable, rather it felt boring - like riding a big car. I want a (sport) touring bike that will maintain the same level of excitement that the FZ6 has given me.

Yesterday I tested a BMW K1300GT and K1300S. I was limited to only sitting on the K-GT, as it was not prep'ed and available for test rides from the dealer. Regardless, the sitting test was valued by me as I consider my body fit to a bike is amongst the highest qualifications for my interest in a bike. Anyway, the K-GT fit my body perfectly. It has similar geometry interface with my body as does the FZ6 - which I have always considered the ideal fit for me. As such, both these bikes are deemed sport-touring in class.

I later test rode the 2009 K-S. My ride lasted for two hours for which I road up two mountain highways; these are very twisty roads, as they both lead to ski resorts at their peak. The roads have virtually no traffic in these months, so after scouting them, I was able to back track then fully "test" the bike for acceleration, speed, braking, and corner maneuvering. If anyone else has ever ridden the K1300S then they surely can foretell my reaction: that bike is AMAZING. The power is awesome. With only marginally more weight than the FZ6, but with 175 HP of power and 100 ft-lbs of torque, it is a veritable rocket. Do the math: with a reported 0-100 kph time of 2.8 secs (for the older K1200S), this amounts to 1.0 G force of acceleration. Ah ha, so that's how the beemer engineers sized up the powerplant - big enough engine to give maximum attainable acceleration before tires will break their grip on asphalt; anything b***** is superfluous. I did a few test launches of the bike; in all cases the bike's traction control (ASC) denied me a wheelie (good, I don't want them) as it pulled with maximum controlled acceleration. On paper, the math says the K-S will pull with 130% more acceleration than the FZ6 - Yup! that's what it felt like. The first time I launched, my stomach literally went up into my chest - just like when we go into a dive on a roller coaster. I was flabbergasted! What else? Well there is so much more to that bike: The ABS brakes made the rear binder's more usable. The suspension made working the hairpin corners more manageable. And so much more, but that is not the point of this review.

I have read that the K-GT has the same frame, suspension, engine and transmission. Essentially, the K-GT has only secondary elements upgraded from the K-S; that is, a b***** alternator, battery, fairing, screen, along with side panniers. The engine mapping is altered to offer a bit more torque at low revs (2500 to 3000 rpms), but at the expense of loss of power at the red line. I estimate it should have 100% more acceleration over the FZ6, compared to 130% for the K-S (when adjusting for varying payload weights). Actually, for the first 6000 rpms of the torque curve, the K-GT will offer more pull than the K-S. So, if one rides more relaxed (ie: up shifting far below red-line, say 6000 rpms), then the K-GT should theoretically pull continually harder than the K-S.

So, it looks like I can have my cake and eat it too: ride with the thrill of the FZ6 but with the noise protection offered on typical full touring bikes. Alas, I expect to be able to tour all day with no fatigue come evening.
 

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Might I suggest a quieter helmet? Flip up helmets are not the quietest helmets on the planet. Last year I test rode a can am spyder and used one of their helmets. I was not wearing earplugs. That helmet was very quiet. I should have asked what brand it was...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Yeah, I've been away but nice to be back. Truth be told, I bought a Cervello R3 bicycle and had a blast riding and touring with it. Last year I didn't even bother licensing the FZ6 knowing that all my time would be riding the carbon-fiber bike instead of the 600cc bike.

This year I picked up an assignment where I manage a project from our two offices, at two cities some 8 hours apart. Ah great! - a need to ride the FZ6. This summer has given me many occasions to ride, including touring on some weekends.

I can add a few more comments about the K1300S compared to the FZ6:

The K-S is obviously heavier; its rake is evidently set for full speed, for which at slow speed (10 kph) it wants to tip sideways when turning. In contrast, the FZ6 is wonderfully balanced in its steering at both low and high speeds.

The K-S is very flickable at speed, but again the FZ6 wins as it seems to defy the laws of inertia with its *effortless* maneuvering.

So, why my decision for the K1300GT as a full-sized tourer? Well, when touring mountain highways, I spend alot of time "passing" traffic. To manage this on twisty roads, a responsive powerplant is mandatory - otherwise you better stay put. In such situations, I would drop the FZ6 down into 3rd, rev'ed to 10,000, and rocket to my new position. What else could do that? Well, virtually all 600cc and larger sport bikes (but I don't want a sport bike for long rides). And who couldn't? Well, I passed numerous other classes of bikes that couldn't, for which we would meet up half hour later at a road-site stop and chat. Guys that were astonished with the acceleration of the FZ6 (when applied effectively) which attested to those bikes not being able to launch and maneuver with such authority were virtually all cruisers and all most all touring bikes.

So, I want a bike that is almost as maneuverable as the FZ6, same seating posture as it (sport-touring class), taller wind screen that is adjustable so I can lower it for the twisties and raise it for the slabs, adjustable suspension for same variety of situations, and allot of kick in coping with the increased load of touring.

The Honda ST-1300 felt too large and lagard. The Yamaha FJR-1300 is a much nicer bike for me in comparison between those two. If I wasn't to buy the K-GT then I would definitely buy the FJR. But the BMW K1300GT has overwhelming power. The torque is accessible at low rev's and the gear ratios are perfectly spaced for which all the gears are usable (emphasis: 1st gear on the K-GT is much more usable than the FZ6). The ABS brakes in conjunction with duolever suspension system makes braking more controlled (ie: rear brake becomes more usable) and maintains chassis stability (anti-diving).

I had considered the Triumph Sprint ST last year. It seems to be a true sport-touring with essentially the same geometry and detailing as the FZ6. This would be ideal for me if I restricted myself to medium distance touring. But for long distances I want full wind protection. From my aerodynamic testing, I find that the minimum screen height to give full noise protection against the helmet corresponds to having the wind screen come up *exactly* to my height of eye-sight. The Sprint's screen is too short for this criteria. The K-GT necessitates the optional tall screen for my height. Of course, for occasional fun, I want to be able to lower the screen.

Dollar for dollar, I think the FZ6 has much higher value than the K-GT, at one third the price (once fully loaded with accessories). The FZ6 (sport touring class) wins in my life for city and local riding, and overall fun. But the K-GT (full touring class) moves ahead for long distance touring, where I need more comfort.
 

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This has got nothing to do with your hearing / Helmet / Ear Plugs You just need an excuse for getting a new bike.....Be prepared to open your wallet tho.....put your charts and graphs in the drawer...you will find the trusty FZ6 has served you well. BMW [ bring money with] Congratulations, don't get hurt with all that power!.......
 

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Have you checked on how to change the oil on the GT. I would not buy the bike just for that reason. What a pita. Bmw makes simple things stupid. They are overpriced and overengineered just like Mercedes. Things go wrong with Bmw's that never go wrong with a Jap bike. Get the FJR. I am a certified bmw mechanic and have replaced many of the new final drives due to catistrophic failure. I ride a FZ6. That should tell you something.
 

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To add to scottfarm I know 3 guys at work. They bought the same BMW bike same time and year. Say a mid life crysis for guys with cash. LOL anyway I was told its about 70 dollars an oil change. Now with that said i'd say piss off to that but yea you can do it yourself, well thats what i was thinking but one of the guys said fuck that. LOL not sure the details of why he wont do it him self. Jim forgot to tighten his chain for along time about 7k miles teeth where shitty and chain what toast. He had it all replaced for about 1500 so he tells me but Todd told me it was about 2k... WOW OMFG!!!! But its a BMW. so make sure you check on how to do the maintenance and other things before you buy man. Honestly if I had the Cash I would love to have one.
 

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If you are just wanting to get a new bike, then don;t read the rest of my post :D

I do long rides on my FZ6 (39k miles so far). I consider it a bike very capable of touring. I rode it from Tampa, FL to Canada and back again, 5k miles in 2 weeks.

Wind noise is most likely due to your flipup helmet and the stock screen. How tall are you? With a Puig Double Bubble screen, and an Arai Profile helmet (my old Shoie worked good to), and E-A-Rsoft FX earplugs, and my 6'2" body...wind noise is not a problem.

Oh ya, I also have the stock exhaust still, because I prefer the quieter stock can. Is your exhaust still stock?

Also, keep in mind, that I bet there are a LOT more Yamaha dealers where you will be touring than BMW dealers. If your bike breaks down and you need a part, the FZ6 will be a lot easier to get going again than a BMW bike. I used to have a BMW R1150RT.

However, if you just want that BMW, then none of the above matters :)
 

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I have the same beef about the Fz6's stock windshield & the noise. Before I left on my BC/AB tour this summer, I bought a CalSci windshield and it really solved the issue for me. I did some research on various brands, but I was most convinced that the CalSci guys did their research on making the smoothest airstream. The CalSci site has some guidance for what size to purchase - it recommended either a medium or large based on my size. I got a large and it works well.

Just a thought in case you want to stick with the FZ6. But the Beemers are great bikes too.
 

· Squidly Tendencies ...
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Welcome fellow rider to the adjustable windshields world, once you get it you can't go back ... I wanted a Wing, but couldn't justify the additional 10k, so I settled on a new ST1300... after owning it the last 90k, I can't give up the windshield, unless the new wing comes with one I'll never look at it again... windshield like you described, allows you to get more air if your hot, and put it up when cruising the open road and you don't hear anything. Incidentally whichever one you get, ST, FJR, GT, get an aftermarket windshield and it'll be even better ... I can hold a conversation with a passenger at 60mph riding down the freeway just yelling back and forth...
 

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Wind noise

Wind noise / turbulence on my 2004 FZ6 is horrible. I'm 6'3" and always wear ear plugs and a full face Shoei helmet. I've tried the stock shield, the tall Yamaha shield and am now running a Puig double-bubble. The wind noise is still horrible. It has to be some combination of my height and the turbulent air. Whatever it is, it's my least favorite thing about the FZ6. If I ride without ear plugs for more than five minutes, it is intolerable.

I'm tempted to buy another stock windscreen and experiement cutting a hole/slot/duct at the bottom to alleviate the turbulent air situation.
 

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Wind noise / turbulence on my 2004 FZ6 is horrible. I'm 6'3" and always wear ear plugs and a full face Shoei helmet. I've tried the stock shield, the tall Yamaha shield and am now running a Puig double-bubble. The wind noise is still horrible. It has to be some combination of my height and the turbulent air. Whatever it is, it's my least favorite thing about the FZ6. If I ride without ear plugs for more than five minutes, it is intolerable.

I'm tempted to buy another stock windscreen and experiement cutting a hole/slot/duct at the bottom to alleviate the turbulent air situation.
I've got my OEM screen sitting in the garage, wrapped in plastic.... I'm working on modifying my Puig double bubble instead.

So far, I've cut off the 'ears' to reduce the cross section, a VERY slight improvement. Not good enough. Wind noise is sitll terrible.

Step 2 was to use a hole saw on a drill and cut 2 1" openings through the screen to allow some venting to the back side to reduce the buffet.

No effect at helmet height; but the still air pocket behind the wind screen is now dead calm. If I duck down into it, silence.

Next up will be to add 2 more 1" holes, or possibly a 1.5" between the two I've already cut. I either make it depart the upper edge of the screen smoothly, or destroy the Puig.... so I am taking it slowly.
 

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As the thread becomes completely highjacked...

A cheap solution to wind noise is to wear a neck gator. I got a good quality fuzzy one from a ski store and it makes a huge difference. It's comfortable even on hot days.

As for the original post: I was laughing out loud. Only motorcyclists could justify buying a $15k bike because their current bike has a bit of wind noise!
 

· Another day lived!
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I have the Puig double bubble on mine and it was a vast improvement over stock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
A few weeks ago I experimented with noise abatement for a few hours on a long straight ride.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SPEED

- The following measurements pertain to a stock FZ6, riding with a full face helmet and with the visor sealed, wearing high quality custom moulded ear plugs. Rider is seating in upright posture, with helmet above the wind screen level. Speeds are as read by the speedometer (which is known by gps to over-estimate by 8%).

- The noise level is proportional to the square of the speed (physics).
- The noise level is perceptable as slow as 40 kph.
- The noise level becomes mildly uncomfortable as slow as 60 kph.
- The noise level is tolerable indefinitely at 100 kph (I can ride for hours here).
- The noise level is very uncomfortable at 120 kph. (I can bearly hear myself talk.)
- The noise level is painful and eventually causing harm at 140 kph.
- The noise level is intensely painful and unbearable at 160 kph. (I can bearly hear myself scream.)

- Conclusion:
Long distance riding is only sustainable below 120 kph, and 100 kph is ideal.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EARPLUGS

- I have tried the following ear plugs. The following data lists their audible attenuation rating; this is consistent with my own perception. (Note -3 dBA is perceived by human ear to be half the noise level - this is very noticeable.)
20 dBA = Conventional mp3 music ear phones (Sony).
24 dBA = Moulded mp3 music ear phones (Klipsch).
28 dBA = Conventional cylindrical shaped plugs.
33 dBA = E-A-Rsoft FX earplugs (bell shaped plugs).
36 dBA = Custom moulded silicone ear plugs ($100 pair).

- Conclusion:
Music ear phones should be used only for limited time period and at lower speeds.
Earplugs are essential and custom moulded silicone is the best.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HELMET

- I rode with a borrowed Arai non-flip helmet to compare it with my flip-up helmet. I could not perceive any significant difference in the sound attenuation.
- I wear mostly a Shoei Multitec (flip up) helmet. This is a very good helmet as far as flip-up types go.
The underside of the chin is open, which allows air turbulence to occur and make noise.
If I plug the underside with a rag, then the noise appreciably diminishes (but no one would ride that way).
- I also have a BMW System-6 (flip up); this is slightly better than the Shoei but more expensive.
The underside of the chin is sealed with a body fitting foam section. This precludes any air turbulence.
This feature seems to be why the BMW helmet is quieter than the Shoei.
- I have added a small strip of soft foam against the inside edge of the helmet at the ear cavity. This foam will then contact with my ear plugs and maintain a constant pressure against them - essentially pushing them in and sealing them to the skin of my ear. This significantly increases the noise attenuation of the earplugs; however the added pressure eventually causes discomfort to the soft tissues of the outer ear.
- I have experimented with taping over all the seams and joints of the Shoei helmet - even the visor. This resulted in a helmet more sealed and aerodynamic than non-flip helmets. Regardless, this taping had virtually no benefit to sound attenuation.
- I have ridden momentarily with my hands in front of my helmet to block the wind flow. There were two positions where my hands obstructed wind flow sufficiently to reduce the noise: 1) both hands fully in front of the helmet about a foot away and completely obsuring my vision - this functioned equivalently as a blind wind screen, and 2) one hand beside and in front of my ear but sticking outwards, akin to Dumbo the Elephants outstretched ears - this functioned to move the boundary layer away from the side of the helmet.

- Conclusion:
Flip-up helmets are not appreciably louder than non-flip helmets.
A tight fitting helmet is much quieter than a loose one as it helps to seal the ear chamber.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WIND SCREEN

- I have a stock screen on my FZ6; I have not experimented with any others. Instead, I have experimented with my helmet position with respect to the screen.
- The air flow streams off the edge of the screen essentially horizontal, regardless of vehicle speed, and regardless of location around the radius of the screen. Thus, air flow does not continue on the same geometric path as defined by the slope of the wind screen. Once it reaches the top of the screen, it transitions to a horizontal trajectory almost instantly past the trailing edge.
- The human ear is about level with our eyes. The boundary layer of air (where turbulence starts) streaming back from the screen can be kept above the ear by merely alligning one's eyesight at or just below the top edge of the wind screen. For the FZ6, this requires me to lay my chest upon the tank, with my head and neck cranked back. (I'm in good shape, for which my body can tolerate this posture for a few hours with little discomfort. I would image many riders would find this very uncomfortable. Regardless, I will lay on the tank solely to relieve the strain on my ears.)
- Try this: ride with helmet above the wind screen level and note the high sound level. Now, duck down with helmet below the wind screen and note the sound level is only marginally lower. This is because allot of noise is created *AT* the small wind screen of the FZ6; then it propogates to the rider's ear, regardless of him ducking under the wind screen. Additional noise is created as it eddies about the front of the bike which has minimal fairing. Contrast this with riding a full sized touring bike with its large and continuous body fairing and tall and wide wind screen. The touring bike causes much less eddies and turbulent air flow as it rides into the wind compared to the sport bike design of the FZ6. I test rode a Honda ST1300 with its wind screen placed in the lower position, and I sat up to position my helmet above the boundary layer. That ride was no louder than me riding the FZ6 with my helmet under the boundary layer.


- Conclusion:
Placing helmet at eyesight level (or lower) to the top edge of wind screen is adequate to be below the boundary layer.
A larger (tall and wide) wind screen is significantly better than tall and narrow.
A wider body fairing is significantly better than little or no fairing.
Placing a tall screen on the FZ6 is not sufficient to compete with the quietness of the broader fairing and wind screen of a full touring bike.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ENGINE NOISE

- Try this: park the bike, put it in neutral, then rev the engine to 7000 or 8000 rpms. It is screaming in your ear, right? Well that same sound level is arriving at the rider at full highway speeds. But is this the primary source of noise? Nope!
- Don't try this but I did: park the bike on center stand, put it into 6th gear, and rev the engine to 7000 or 8000 rpms. Notice the sound that additionally comes from the running drive chain. Most is from the engine but the chain does add an appreciable level of noise.
- I rode at 130 kph, noticed the noise level, then quickly pulled in the clutch and let the engine wind down to 1300 rpms. Surprise: the loud noise level is almost unchanged! That's because most of the noise is not coming from the engine, despite it screaming loud level. Note, the chain is still spinning of course.
- We all know tires rolling on the road make impact noise. This is actually significant. Slick tires are quieter than treaded tires, and narrower ones are quieter than fat ones.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BIKE COMPARISON

- I did some subjective measurements of noise level on the FZ6, and compared it with the BMW K1300GT. For noise attenuation, most full-sized touring bikes should be essentially similar, as their screen, body fairing and engine displacement are similar.
- This analysis serves to question:
1) What is the reduced noise level of a touring bike compared to a sport-touring bike?
2) What is the required reduced riding speed on the FZ6 to yield the same noise level on a full touring bike?

- Conclusion:
A full touring bike produces about 30% of the noise level as a sport-touring bike to the rider's ear.
A full touring bike can travel at double the speed of a sport-touring bike to yield the same noise level.


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