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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
About a month ago I got a ticket for going 60 in a 25. I had accelerated fast but honestly didn't get over 45. The cop was on a motorcycle, behind a suburban, a ways behind me. I have a court date on June 29th for that.

Then last night I took a 55mph turn at around 70 and got pulled over. The police officer was nice and all, and gave me a ticket for 65 in a 55.

These are the only tickets I've ever gotten. While I know I somewhat deserve both tickets, I can't let both go on my record or I will get dropped by my insurance. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Andy
 

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first, get a lawyer. go to court on the both, most likely they will be dropped because cops don't like going to court. DO NOT admit in court to even going 45 if you want to stand a change of it being dropped. In fact, ask your lawyer if you have to go at all. I didn't when I got my last major ticket, and my lawyer advised me not to so I wouldn't be forced to testify under oath.

Second, if you are unable to get the tickets dropped completely see what you can do about going to traffic school or having one of them suspended. This will generally keep them off of your record.

Third, Worst case scenario is that both stick, in which case you still have hope. Most insurance companies never check your MVR except when you start coverage, or when there is a change to your coverage. As long as you don't add/remove any vehicles or change your coverage levels they most likely will never know you got a ticket.
 

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The first ticket.. How much traffic around you? The only way out of that ticket is if you take it to court.. Your best point of questioning would be how he sights in his Laser gun before his shift.. (if he used radar, it should be thrown out, since there is NO way a radar gun will pick up a motorcycle in traffic). Laser guns need to be sighted Up-Down on a telephone pole or something, then Left-Right on another target. Most police dont sight side to side, since it requires a custom built target.. If they dont sight it Left-Right, they cant "beyond a resonable doubt" prove they had you gunned. You have to supoena their users manual for the exact gun they used on you.. That is your only chance... You are automatically guilty in traffic court.
 

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Punkwood2k said:
there is NO way a radar gun will pick up a motorcycle in traffic).
On what is this proclamation based? I'm no radar-certified LEO but I do know that radar can indeed pick up a motorcycle in traffic. Radar will pick up any moving object, but it's up to the radar operator to positively identify which object matches the highest speed. Besides that not all states even require radar for enforcing a ticket; radar certified LEOS must pass qualification which includes visual estimates within 5MPH and their estimate is often evidence enough to satisfy many courts. Their radar reading simply gives their case more teeth.

I'd hate to see RedStal go into court with "I'm innocent because radar can't pick me up in traffic..." :lao
 

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Ducboy said:
On what is this proclamation based? :lao

A radar gun will return the speed of the LARGEST object in its beam.. If there is traffic (assuming Auto traffic) the signature returned will be the larger signatures speed. Motorcycles do not register, unless they are the only thing in the beam path.. Trust me... I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, have built Radar guns for my senior project, and I start the Police Academy in 3 months. AND I have read the Police Manual on radar guns, which states "The largest object in the beam path will be the object measured"..
 

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Ducboy said:
radar certified LEOS must pass qualification which includes visual estimates within 5MPH and their estimate is often evidence enough to satisfy many courts.
Absolutely correct on this though.. Thats why I made the statement "you are automatically guilty".. Sucks, but unless you have a 100
% bulletproof defense, youre gonna usually get stuck with SOME kind of ticket... The object is to punch a few holes in their case, to get it reduced as far down as possible.
 

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Punkwood2k said:
AND I have read the Police Manual on radar guns, which states "The largest object in the beam path will be the object measured"..
Having no radar experience I can't speak empirically, but according to at least two radar-running cops I've spoken with tell me some newer units have a 'fastest object' setting which makes getting bikes much easier.

In any event, I defer to the experts, those actually running radar on the streets. Their response to the assertion, "there is NO way a radar gun will pick up a motorcycle in traffic." : "That is wrong. #1, The largest object will not necessarily be the "object measured" Once again, he shows his [ignorance]. The BEST target will be displayed. A lear jet is smaller than the F117, but the F117 has a MUCH smaller RADAR profile than a lear. Many factors determine reflectivity. Pitched baseball speeds are measured by radar, so I imagine a motorcycle with rider would be displayed.

#2 New police radars can be set to display the fastest target rather than the best."
 

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Do some research and find a good speeding ticket lawyer...its your only way out. Prepare to pay out some bucks...though id imagine $1000 would be the max it would cost for both tickets.
 

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A couple more LEOS have the following to add. Take from their responses what you will:

"Actually, most radar guns now use fastest targeting. not only will the radar show you the most prominent target, but in another window, the fastest target will be displayed.

lidar picks them up just fine too."

-And-

"I get bikes on radar and laser all the time. never had a problem with either."
 

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Ducboy said:
A couple more LEOS have the following to add. Take from their responses what you will:

"Actually, most radar guns now use fastest targeting. not only will the radar show you the most prominent target, but in another window, the fastest target will be displayed.

lidar picks them up just fine too."

-And-

"I get bikes on radar and laser all the time. never had a problem with either."


It means nothing at all if you have a good speeding ticket lawyer....believe it or not..some lawyers LITTERALLY NEVER LOSE.
 

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BentValve said:
It means nothing at all if you have a good speeding ticket lawyer....believe it or not..some lawyers LITTERALLY NEVER LOSE.
That's probably because they don't take unwinnable cases. :banana
 

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They will take any case...nothing is guaranteed but a good lawyer will at least narrow the odds of losing as best possible.

I know of some people who have beaten 15 motorcycle speeding tickets and still hold a perfect driving record as a result. :)
 

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BentValve said:
It means nothing at all if you have a good speeding ticket lawyer....
Agreed, a lawyer is a good way to go provided you can afford one (let's not turn this into an analysis of lawyer fees vs. increased premiums, etc). The context of my post speaks only to the assertion made by Punkwood, nothing more.
 

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Ok, it's time to bust out statistics...

85% of all moving violations result in conviction or fines being paid. The reason for this is that 85% of all moving violations go uncontested because the defendant does not feel they stand a change in court.

Of the 15% that DO contest the ticket, 85% of those are dismissed immediately because of lack of evidence or testimony from the issuing officer. And additional 5-7% of convictions are on lesser charges or a severely reduced punishment, mostly because you took the time to come to court, and the judge recognizes that.

Contrary to popular belief, the officers notes on the ticket and his personal notes CAN NOT serve as his testimony. It is your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to face and question your accuser in a court of law. It's also bullshit that you are 'automatically guilty' because again, the Constitution prohibits such a thing from happening. "Innocent until proven guilty." If any judge in the country were to operate under an 'automatic guilty until proven otherwise' premise he would be removed from the bench.

Bottom line, get a lawyer and go to court. I paid $250 for my lawyer to make a 2 minute appearance in court for my last speeding ticket (had me dead-to-rights at 25 over) and I walked because the cop didn't come to court. I didn't even have to go.

Hell, there are even websites that will sell you a brochure for like $50 that will give you something like a 95% or better chance of beating your tickets, and they even offer to pay the fine if you use their method and still get busted.
 

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TemtnF8 said:
It's also bullshit that you are 'automatically guilty' because again, the Constitution prohibits such a thing from happening. "Innocent until proven guilty." If any judge in the country were to operate under an 'automatic guilty until proven otherwise' premise he would be removed from the bench.
Innocent until proven guilty is all well and good, but what I think he meant was that in traffic court, we're talking about a speeding ticket, not murder one. A false conviction isn't going to send anyone to prison, so they will be less lienient (spelling?). Second, you're on a sportbike, and you were speeding both times. As much as I hate to say this, if you were the judge what would you think? Chances are you were speeding, and even if you do go to court, you will be convicted of something. Best bet for going to court, dont go in thinking that the tickets will be gone, just try to get them reduced. Also, with the insurance. . . They shouldnt drop you. I have 2 tickets on my driving record (see other post), and progressive has no problem covering me. A lawyer will help, (if you think it's worth the extra Grand), but if I'm goilty, and I know it. . .I just pay the ticket :dunno
 

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H2Omax1 said:
Innocent until proven guilty is all well and good, but what I think he meant was that in traffic court, we're talking about a speeding ticket, not murder one. A false conviction isn't going to send anyone to prison, so they will be less lienient (spelling?). Second, you're on a sportbike, and you were speeding both times. As much as I hate to say this, if you were the judge what would you think? Chances are you were speeding, and even if you do go to court, you will be convicted of something. Best bet for going to court, dont go in thinking that the tickets will be gone, just try to get them reduced. Also, with the insurance. . . They shouldnt drop you. I have 2 tickets on my driving record (see other post), and progressive has no problem covering me. A lawyer will help, (if you think it's worth the extra Grand), but if I'm goilty, and I know it. . .I just pay the ticket :dunno
Quitter...

I say fight to the end. It will serve to improve the system if nothing else... Granted he may be guilty, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't fight it.
 

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If you can't afford to pay, don't play.

In addition, motorcycles present a very juicy target for radar. In fact, generally greater than that of most passenger cars. Not less.

Most radar will automatically latch on to the fastest moving object in the vicinity being targeted.
Either don't let that target be you, or convince the Judge that it wasn't you.

And cops love going to court. Overtime...
 

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Here is a method my friend claims his dad's friend does. (i know that sounds distant but maybe it would work) -

call in sick for the court date, then call in sick again on the rescheduled date, then go in on the next rescheduled date. Supposedly the dude has gotten out of every ticket because the cop never shows up on the 3rd court date. could be worth a try.
 

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ive heard rumors on how to beat almost any ticket here in cali, im in the process of trying this but i heard this from a friend who has a friend thats a streetracer, he get 9+ tickets a year and his insurance never goes up and he has a perfect record. According to this friend, you go to court, and plead guilty. You ask to do the payment plan thing. When you finally reach the last payment that will pay it off, you send an extra 10-20 dollars on the check. If you overpay, the court cannot just take your money. They have to send you a check back. When you recieve this refund, you tear it up, burn it, whatever. Apparently they cant close that file/case until you cash the check. After seven years statute of limitations throws out the case. I will update when i finish trying this. It does sound doable, just because our courts and government are so unorganized and leave so may loop holes.

just some food for thought :phatyo
 

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XxIcEmAnxX said:
ive heard rumors on how to beat almost any ticket here in cali, im in the process of trying this but i heard this from a friend who has a friend thats a streetracer, he get 9+ tickets a year and his insurance never goes up and he has a perfect record. According to this friend, you go to court, and plead guilty. You ask to do the payment plan thing. When you finally reach the last payment that will pay it off, you send an extra 10-20 dollars on the check. If you overpay, the court cannot just take your money. They have to send you a check back. When you recieve this refund, you tear it up, burn it, whatever. Apparently they cant close that file/case until you cash the check. After seven years statute of limitations throws out the case. I will update when i finish trying this. It does sound doable, just because our courts and government are so unorganized and leave so may loop holes.

just some food for thought :phatyo
I've actually heard of this before from somewhere. You have to do the payment plan though? Can't just mail them the full check plus 10 bucks? But anyway, I've heard of this.
 
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