Sport Bikes banner

1 - 20 of 527 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
mod edit: Since this has got to be such a lengthy thread, and this is the largest single issue that we deal with on our FZ6, I am going to attempt to summurize all the useful information from this thread in a single post. This it in attempt to make it easier for members to get the information they need easier for this issue. I hijacked this first post of this thread to make it easy to find. -jcaesar

Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Issue Summary

What is the TPS?
Runner-FZ6 said:
The TPS Sensor is just a potensiometer.

It is actually a variable resistor just like the one found on a Volume control on your stereo system.

The the low side gives abrupt and unpredictable off-spec values, because it is this part of the potensiometer that is mostly used. Simply, this part of the potensiometer is worn out!
In fact Segue00 measured the loss of contact in that area.
The same phenomenon happens when a worn Volume potensiometer causes noise on your speakers.

I am not sure that this is the cause for the "binary" throttle response.

The service manual says that the TPS angle (Page 7-31) should be adjusted so as the TPS voltage should be between 0.63-0.73Volt.

So having a healthy, and properly adjusted TPS, we should measure 0.63 to 0.73 Volts when iddling.
If the value was 0 Volts, yeap that could cause that "on-off" response.
What Does the TPS Look Like?
Here is a bunch of good photos taken by Moldmaker of the TPS. He even included photos of the TPS torn down.
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2105110&postcount=366
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2105120&postcount=367
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2105120&postcount=368


What does the TPS do technically?
greatzipp's orginal question said:
I've been thinking about this for a week now and can't figure it out. So someone explain this to me or point out the error in my thinking.

Now, your TPS is desinged to tell the ECU how much your twisting the throttle so that the ECU knows how much fuel your injectors should spit out.

The TPS puts out a steady voltage at idle and increases as your turn the throttle. The voltage coming out of the TPS is translated into a signal by the ECU as to how much gas to inject.

At an idle your TSP puts out a steady .7 volts (about) which translates into throttle closed. Not 100% sure what the voltage is for fully open so let's just say 3volts = fully open. So more volts = throttle open more which = more fuel injected ...... right?????

Now let's say your TPS fails for some reason, doesn't matter what. According to the manual the fail safe for a TPS is to fix it at fully open ..... in this state the bike is still ridable.

But now the ECU thinks that the throttle is fully open so wouldn't it inject the amount of fuel = to WOT?? If the ECU thought the throttle was fully open wouldn't your RPM's stay high even if you let the throttle grip go?? Or would it still be injecting the max full for WOT but because the throttle bodies aren't open the fuel air mix is off so the result would just be really poor gas milage and maybe some julty riding caused by unspent fuel due to incomplete combustion.
Dr. Honda's Response said:
Hummm… where to start…

OK… the TPS is only a pawn in the fuel injection game. The real leader is the MAP sensor. (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Yamaha calls it the “Intake Air Pressure Sensor.” This little device looks at manifold vacuum. The manifold vacuum is compared to atmospheric pressure by the ECU, and this will give the ECU the Air density of the incoming air charge. The air density, along with the engine RPM with be taken together, and the ECU will look up the injector pulse length on a look up table. (doing it thousands of time a second) Oh… I should also say that the air intake temp also plays a small part in this too.

The only thing that the TPS is really doing is letting the ECU know if you are opening, or closing the throttle. This is important because on a modern, high performance engine, as you quickly open the throttle you need more fuel than the apparent lode will dictate. (map and rpm look up) This is know as “Tip In Fuel” or as it was known on a carburetor… “The accelerator Pump.” Without the tip in fuel… the engine would (minimum) cough and flame out. (too much air) At worst… the engine would have HORIBLE detonation, (pre-ignition) and burn holes in the tops of the pistons, crush the ring lands, bend the rods, or crush the crank bearings. (lot’s-O-bad stuff)

So… when the ECU can no longer reliably read the TPS, the ECU goes into “limp mode.” Limp mode on our FZ6’s is basically running it in it’s Warm-up mode. The added fuel of the warm-up cycle will keep all the bad stuff listed above from happening. (it’s like in permanent acceleration or "choke on" mode)

OK… we don’t like the crappy fuel economy, the smelly exhaust, or the fouled sparkplugs… but they are cheap compared to a blown engine. Personally I think once it can’t read the TPS it should run a bit leaner, but limit the RPM’s to around 7k.
For more discussion on how the TPS technically works, see this thread:
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?t=291973


How to Replace the TPS:
FZSilver did a great job of summurizing the replacement of the TPS, complete with photos.
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2229422

What are the Symptoms of a Faulty TPS?
  • Stalling
  • Irregual idle
  • RPM Drop while acclerating or trying to maintain a constand speed.
  • Drop in fuel Mileage
  • Poor Throttle Response

How to test the TPS:
Megatron said:
To check the TPS values, you have to press and hold SELECT + RESET, then turn the key and keep them pressed for 8 more seconds.

It'll appear dIAg on the display, you can release them now. Afterwards use select until you see a d01 (Diagnostic Mode for the TPS)

Then it should read between 15 and 17 if the throttle is closed,
With the throttle fully open, it should read between 97 and 100.

If the values are over or below those I mentioned, the TPS should be replaced.

To leave the dIAG mode, simply turn the key counter clockwise.

For more discussion on testing TPS, see this post:
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1965493&postcount=247
Some Notes That You Might Want to Consider:
segue00 said:
1) Although replacing a faulty TPS may solve the problem, it might be something else that causes the TPS to fail.
2) Some bikes had multiple TPS replacements.
3) Most bikes did not have this problem.
4) Some bikes reportedly that had the TPS symptoms did not get fixed by just replacing the TPS.
5) Going into diagnostics every now and then and making sure that the spec value on the throttle of 16 - 100 percent does not change is one way to monitor whether your TPS is changing.
6) It's still a crap shoot, and the odds are that very few throttle position sensors becomes faulty. At least going by the sampling in this forum and on the current number of complaints in NHTSA reports.
7) At least 1 TPS was installed incorrectly upon replacement. Something to do with the o-ring placement.
8) The original TPS had been superceeded by a revision and carries a new part number.
9) So, if you're going to replace your TPS, at least make sure they don't put in a TPS with the old part number. Or ask for the TPS for a 2006 release model or later if you have an '04 or an '05.
What Actions You Should Take to get Yamaha to Address This Issue:


  • Contact Yamaha Customer Service. We need as many people as possible to contact Yamaha about this issue. Hopefully they will address it and issue a recall.
  • File a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA) - For those that are in the U.S.
    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems
  • For those not in the U.S, please file with your local Traffic Safety Adminstration.
  • Sending your faulty TPS to segue00. segue00 is tearing down the faulty TPS and trying to find the root cause. So far he only has a couple, and hasn't been able to nail down the exact root cause with the few he has.

    Also, Jamez is collecting details to submit to the NHTSA and Yamaha to see if we can push this thing to at least a Technical Bulletin if not a Recall.

    So, if your TPS has been replaced (either by yourself or by a dealer), please PM Jaez the following information:

    1.) Your Name, City, State/Province, Country
    2.) Your FZ6 year
    3.) When was your TPS replaced
    4.) Who replaced your TPS (you/non-dealer or dealer)
    5.) The Part# of your replaced TPS
    6.) Attach a copy of your service receipt (if you can/have it)
    7.) Send me any additional information that I have not asked for that you think would be helpful for this cause​
    If you have any questions about gathering all this info to send to Yamaha or NHTSA, please PM Jamez.
What can I do to convince the Dealer to replace the TPS if they say there is nothing wrong with it.
The dealer may not be willing to replace it under warranty, because the fault code is not logged. You can force a fault code by disconnecting the TPS, and then turning on the bike. It should log a Fault Code 15.

Also, have them test the resistance of the TPS and make sure that it is within spec.​


What part TPS part number is the latest one that I should install to correct the issue.

The TPS should be replaced with the 3rd Generation part no. 5FL-85885-02-00.​
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
no problem for me....yet. I have only 2500 km under my belt though
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
FZ6R said:
I think there might be a problem with that part on our bikes. I'm not sure but I believe the TPS is causing my bike to occasionally stall/drop rpm's every once in awhile. I have read others complaining of these symptoms on the forums and I read about another having to replace that part.
I am with you on this one, I left the bike at the Yami Stealership for 3 days and they said that they could not find anything wrong, with the codes that is.....go figure.
So I said, just give me the bike back and hopefully it breaks down completly and you have to come tow the thing. They said that they had spoken to Yamaha Corp. and they have not come up with anything yet.....oh well. :angry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
i had that problem too at mileage less than 5k. ya.money agent had to came tow the thing away. :mad: replace a new throttle body. Problem solve. now as good as new>> reaching 15k :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
I called the dealership today and they said that they spoke to Yamaha Corp. and Yami requested to replace the ignigtion switch and the TPS and it will be in next week. So hopefully this crap goes away sooner than later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
Same thing with me!

I did a thread on it back in June?

Stalls, rpm drops, lots of highway rpm stumbles. Couldn't get them to find/fix the problem.

Then one day it stalled and on start up, the check engine light came on for a couple of seconds while still running. That evidently finally left a code. They said they found one TPS code. Replaced it and then all is fine

If you are still limping by with a bad one or suspect a bad one. While cruising just hit neutral, let it stall, ignition off for a moment, clutch drop start up. It resets itself and was fine for a while intermittantly?

Hope they go good on it for you. Just tell them they have had lots of bad ones and just replace the TPS for ya'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Just An Update

I take the bike to the dealership tomorrow so they can replace the TPS and the ignition sensor, they called Yamaha and they said it was the ignition sensor, but will replace the TPS just for the hek of it, damn right..........if you all have this problem just hassle the delaer to call Yamaha. I DID.....
By the way I have 5280miles on the bike so far, so that might be a round about number for this to happen. Good Luck
p.s. they did not find a error code....but will fix it anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
while coming back from Colorado this past monday, I was experiencing hesitation while accelerating after engine braking. I'm personally suspecting the TPS as well, but I'll have to test it to make certain.

on another note, anyone go over 10000 miles yet? I have about 9600 miles on her now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,855 Posts
Any chance Yamaha will do a recall if this is so predominant?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Got the bike back in about 4hrs, after the install of the TPS an the Ignigtion sensor, well it was the whole ignition cause I got a set of new keys for the ignition, which now I have one for the gas cap and the ignition, but the bike rides as if it were new.........without holding down those rpms. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
853 Posts
Yeah, mine is doing it too and it is really pissing me off!! It stalled 16 times on a 100 mile ride and so far Yami said that thet can find nothing wrong. :mad: I will keep on them until it is fixed. I talked them into calling the factory a second time. Wish me luck, I am sure I will need it because they said that Yami told them that they know nothing of this problem, BS I say!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Where would one go to find TSBs for motorcycles if there was one issued for our bikes? I didn't look very hard but google was on loam for them for motorcycles in general, all the listings were just for cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Hagrunimar said:
Where would one go to find TSBs for motorcycles if there was one issued for our bikes? I didn't look very hard but google was on loam for them for motorcycles in general, all the listings were just for cars.

Your best bet is to continue to hound the stealership, the bike is under warranty for atleast a year......I will try to find out from my dealer as to what Yamaha Corp. told them and pass it on to you guys....I know that Yamaha said to replace the Ignition and dealer said we will do the TPS for the hek of it........yeah right...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
redhawkphi said:
what would it take for a recall to take place?

I first told the dealer that I was on this Forum and out of 78 of us or so, we have had about 10 complaints in the stalling department.......My bike got fixed.....Hound Away, $6800and up, is not chump change to me.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
853 Posts
My bike has been in the shop for four days now. This is the second time in for this problem. I talked to them today and they said that my TPS was out of spec and they are replacing it. So it looks like I will finally be able to go ride without this bullsh*t problem plaguing me.
 

·
FastAss
Joined
·
321 Posts
g8torblue said:
I first told the dealer that I was on this Forum and out of 78 of us or so, we have had about 10 complaints in the stalling department.......My bike got fixed.....Hound Away, $6800and up, is not chump change to me.....

Make that 11
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
853 Posts
rdy2rd said:
Make that 11
When you take it in make sure that you tell them about the others and ride their ass if they say they can't find anything wrong. That is what they did to me and they told me not to believe anything I read on the web. :twofinger Funny, in the end the problem was exactly what I told them I thought it was. I still don't have my bike, they have had it for more than a week waiting for the sensor to show up. :mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
crazymofo said:
When you take it in make sure that you tell them about the others and ride their ass if they say they can't find anything wrong. That is what they did to me and they told me not to believe anything I read on the web. :twofinger
I don't know if they have decided on what is wrong with mine but I do know I mentioned this to them and I got the same repsonce about the web. Damn why would the fix that fixes the bikes with the same exact model and symptoms happening over and over again do anything to help troubleshoot mine. Guess that sounds too logical but thats just me.
:mad: :eek: :angry :a2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
853 Posts
exciter99 said:
I don't know if they have decided on what is wrong with mine but I do know I mentioned this to them and I got the same repsonce about the web. Damn why would the fix that fixes the bikes with the same exact model and symptoms happening over and over again do anything to help troubleshoot mine. Guess that sounds too logical but thats just me.
:mad: :eek: :angry :a2
All I can say is keep on their ass!! If they say that your TPS is in spec or that nothing is wrong insist that they call the factory. That is what I did and then I went on a ride and actually counted the number of stalls that I had on the ride(16 stalls over 100 miles) and took this info to them and said nothing wrong my ass!! At that point they called the factory again and were instructed to get the bike into the shop and figure out what the hell is wrong with it. It is no wonder I drink so much beer when I have to deal with shit like that!
:alky
 
1 - 20 of 527 Posts
Top