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Good post! Many on here would sling poo at you for bringing up an old thread, good find and good post
 

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Just Kiss The Tip
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I have viewpoint...

Is it possbile for a newer rider to understand the theory of what to do on bike without actually having done it?

i.e. It's possible to know that in a rear skid, releasing the rear brake is most likely possible to result in a high side once the rear regains traction if the bike got sideways...however it's possible that that particular rider has never been in that situation...

The reason I bring this up is b/c my riding days can still be measured on a calander without having to do a lot of flipping...but b/c I love bikes the ONLY reason that is is b/c at a certain point in my life I was not ABLE to financially afford to ride. During that time I was introduced to SBN and also a few great riding books that I've read.

So I believe that one can know alot about theory of riding even though they may not have experienced it in real time from a book point of view their thinking could very well be correct.

It's just like there are millions of boxing analyst who never set foot in the ring...but yet they probably could tell someone capable of boxing HOW to box.

I agree that theory is just theory, and that doesn't translate into YOU being able to perform what you read...but still it's a starting point.

just my opinion and not to take anything away from other riders. If you are wrong you are wrong and if you are right you are right...regardless of milage.


PS...THIS WAS A GREAT REMINDER FOR NEW AND NEWER RIDERS TO THINK ON...
 

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It's definitely possible to understand the theory of it without having the ability to do it/handle it/be able to react properly to it. Developing muscle memory is a big part of learning to ride. Until you can respond in an appropriate way quickly & correctly without having to stop and think about it, you haven't really "learned" it in a way that means anything as far as your riding skill is concerned.

That's why saying "respect" will keep you safe is BS. No one intends to screw up. It's not a lack of respect that causes common new rider errors, it's a lack of skill, experience & muscle memory.

That said, I do believe that learning the theory of it does help tremendously, when you can also practice what you read and hone your skills.
 

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Just Kiss The Tip
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That's why saying "respect" will keep you safe is BS. No one intends to screw up. It's not a lack of respect that causes common new rider errors, it's a lack of skill, experience & muscle memory.
I hear ya...

I always smirk when I hear people say, I'm going to respect my bike's power...

then I step in and say how can you "respect" your bike's power when you don't even know what it's capable of doing?

And for veteran riders who always say to always respect your bike...it makes me think that THEY "respect" their bike out of fear of what they don't know or don't want to happen when it's really not a "respect" application but more of a skill/control or learned experience appplication....But they just use "respect" as a filler world for fear.

When someone says the day I stop respecting my bike is the day I'm going to stop riding it...lol WHY? I think at that point you've reached the a benchmark in your riding where you are no longer worried about what could happen as you have a wide bank of stored experiences and muscle memory of which to responsd should you end up in an unfavorable situation. The bike is inhumane. Now they day you stop respecting you S.O.....then that's a day that you should reconsider.
 

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I found this site extremely helpful 6 months ago when I started looking at getting back into riding. I came here dead set on either an FZ1 or a Bandit 1250 because of my size... I am a big dude and the Bandit really did feel the most comfortable of any I sat on in the showroom. Then I came here and started reading about how the SV650 and Ninja 650R were the biggest bikes that would be reasonably acceptable for a beginner, so I decided to get the Ninja. Best decision I could have made. I put about 1000 miles on it riding sporadically when the weather was decent before it turned completely shitty. I am planning on taking longer trips on a bike so I really want a big sport tourer, but I keep re-reading threads to remind myself that I'm not ready for them yet. In fact, I probably won't be for another couple of years. So as much as I'd like to be taking cross country trips on an FJR (or something similar), it will have to wait until I'm ready for that level of motorcycle. I'll probably take some shorter trips on my 650R, but honestly, at my size I'm not sure it's going to be comfortable for too long of distances. I also am not going to be able to carry a ton of luggage on it without going over the weight ratings. At any rate, the advice of you experienced riders kept me from getting a b***** bike and at 38, married, with a child and a good job, I'm one of those guys that would definitely "respect the bike" and ride with maturity. That wouldn't keep me from making noob mistakes. I've made a couple on my 650 that I'm sure had I made on a litre bike or big ST would have hurt me. Little stuff like thinking I was a gear higher than I was before downshifting 2 gears... Shifted into 2nd instead of 3rd, brought the front wheel up a little without intending to, corrected it, pulled over and calmed down and continued on my way; but had that happened on a 105 hp bike instead of a 60 hp bike (or whatever it is), that front wheel would have come WAY up and I probably would have panicked and wrecked. So, from a noob, THANK YOU for being diligent in warning us not to be foolish.
 

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Old school fool
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^^^ Here's the thing, if you were just getting out on the interstate and riding, then a sport tourer would probably be just fine. If you could have two bikes, the big one for special trips and your current one for around town and fun times, then I think you would be OK.

The other thing is you could buy a large touring bike from the 70s or 80s. You wouldn't get all the latest technogizmos or the big power rush, but you could have a decent bike that gives you all the advantages that a big bore tourer gives (long legs, comfort and torque) and would run down the highway without too many problems.
 

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Here's the thing, if you were just getting out on the interstate and riding, then a sport tourer would probably be just fine.
And that's exactly why I have trouble listening to the guys who say "I know, I log 15k miles a year"... Sure, you put on a lot of miles, but they're highway miles.

I'd guarantee that in my 4 months and 800 miles I've seen and experienced a hell of a lot more than a lot of those guys have, because I'm commuting through a city every day. I've learned to squeeze and not grab, I've learned when and why to cover my front brake, and I've learned when and why I need to be in a lower gear and in my powerband... how? I've needed to - I have people making lefts in front of me all the time... There's a cool little maneuver up here in New England that we call the Rhode Island Roadblock - the left turner starts their turn, then stops and blocks the flow of traffic until they can finish it safely. When there's a bike in the way, though, they don't wait for the "until they can finish it safely", they just finish it.

I'm not saying that I know more than anyone here with my limited experience, but I am saying that if you say "I've been on the street for 30 years" I'm much more likely to believe you than if you say "I put on 18k miles least year, you don't know anything". It's about experiences, not miles.
 

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^^^ Here's the thing, if you were just getting out on the interstate and riding, then a sport tourer would probably be just fine. If you could have two bikes, the big one for special trips and your current one for around town and fun times, then I think you would be OK.

The other thing is you could buy a large touring bike from the 70s or 80s. You wouldn't get all the latest technogizmos or the big power rush, but you could have a decent bike that gives you all the advantages that a big bore tourer gives (long legs, comfort and torque) and would run down the highway without too many problems.
well, I'm not planning interstate trips... I'm thinking about riding up the Lake Michigan shoreline (Michigan side) up to the UP and around the whole UP, then back down the East side of the State. I'm thinking two lane highway through all the small lake towns, lots of turns, stops and starts, etc... I'd probably be fine on a big ST, but I'm not willing to risk it. I also can't have two bikes, so one for commuting and one for trips isn't an option right now. At this point I'm planning on putting at least one more season in on the 650R, maybe two, then getting an ST - or a zx-14 and setting it up for sport touring... (that's my leaning at this point, actually).
 

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well, I'm not planning interstate trips... I'm thinking about riding up the Lake Michigan shoreline (Michigan side) up to the UP and around the whole UP

I want to do that soooo bad. I'm from the SW corner of the LP, and we still have property in Lake county (maybe an hour north of Grand Rapids), though it's for sale. I really need to work that into my schedule while the house is still there. How badass would it be to ride a bike across Mackinac Bridge?
 

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My parents live near there - Hesperia, Fremont, White Cloud triangle. I've ridden a bicycle across the bridge and it's badass. Definitely want to stay in the middle lane on a bike...

Where at in SW Michigan? St Joe?
 

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Old school fool
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And that's exactly why I have trouble listening to the guys who say "I know, I log 15k miles a year"... Sure, you put on a lot of miles, but they're highway miles.

I'd guarantee that in my 4 months and 800 miles I've seen and experienced a hell of a lot more than a lot of those guys have, because I'm commuting through a city every day. I've learned to squeeze and not grab, I've learned when and why to cover my front brake, and I've learned when and why I need to be in a lower gear and in my powerband... how? I've needed to - I have people making lefts in front of me all the time... There's a cool little maneuver up here in New England that we call the Rhode Island Roadblock - the left turner starts their turn, then stops and blocks the flow of traffic until they can finish it safely. When there's a bike in the way, though, they don't wait for the "until they can finish it safely", they just finish it.

I'm not saying that I know more than anyone here with my limited experience, but I am saying that if you say "I've been on the street for 30 years" I'm much more likely to believe you than if you say "I put on 18k miles least year, you don't know anything". It's about experiences, not miles.

That's the trouble that always arises when people try to quantify experience.

Its impossible to do - Do you use "years?" Years of riding to a lot of the country means 6 to 8 months of riding. Do you use miles? A lot of the country have miles of roads that are flat and straight? How do you measure in terms that people can undertsand.

There are always the "you'll know when you are ready" people too - they ignore the fact that the riders most likely to have a serious accident have some time under their belt and feel totally ready to push the envelope. It takes a lot of experience to know what you don't know.

Its always a gamble that people have to take. Bassjones' last messages, for example, shows that undertsands his limits and that he chooses to play it safe. Kudos to him!. :cheers
 

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There's a lot to be said for riding cautiously. Even in the mountains here I don't push it too hard, because you never know when someone is coming around a bend or there is debris in the road. Conditional awareness is something I learned at riding school, and I try to apply that liberally to my excursions.
 

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3. If you've been riding for less than 36 months, please don't give advice without letting people know that. Between months 1 and 36 you are most likely to get into an accident and the highest risk time is the period between months 12-36.
how accurate is this info? Unless its proven by statistics, its hard to believe.
Isn't it more reasonable to think that the first 12months is the most likely time that a new rider will get into an accident? there are some crazy stories out there of newbies buying brand new bikes and dumping it as they leave the dealership lot.

this is a good thread. i just wanted to point out who made the less than 36- month rule where you shouldn't give advice. A lot can be learned between in 1 to 3 years of riding and each rider has a different learning curve and different riding lifestyle (track, stunt, street, etc).
 

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I think the Hurt report was where that came from.

I don't think 2 or 3 years is a lot of experience, unless you were riding nearly every day of those 2 or 3 years. When I say "experience", I'm not referring to your lap times, I'm referring to your skill level (staying safe) riding on public roads.
 

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I think the Hurt report was where that came from.

I don't think 2 or 3 years is a lot of experience, unless you were riding nearly every day of those 2 or 3 years. When I say "experience", I'm not referring to your lap times, I'm referring to your skill level (staying safe) riding on public roads.
I've been riding on the street less than a year but in that time frame I've put almost 7000 miles on my bike. How does that equate to riding years for most people do to short riding seasons in most areas? I am just trying to gauge what my experience would be considered. I still consider myself a new rider and want to learn as much as I can, of course I will still have that mindset for as long as I ride. Isn't there a saying that goes something like this? "He who thinks he knows everything, knows nothing!". If not then I claim credit for it because it is the truth.
 

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I've been riding on the street less than a year but in that time frame I've put almost 7000 miles on my bike. How does that equate to riding years for most people do to short riding seasons in most areas? I am just trying to gauge what my experience would be considered. I still consider myself a new rider and want to learn as much as I can, of course I will still have that mindset for as long as I ride. Isn't there a saying that goes something like this? "He who thinks he knows everything, knows nothing!". If not then I claim credit for it because it is the truth.
You definitely never quit learning. That goes for everything, not just riding. I've been riding 20 years & still learn: find ways to improve existing skills, learn new ones by observing other experienced riders, even be reminded why certain things aren't a good idea when I watch the mistakes of others (or my own!).

It's easy to get complacent after a while, so you have stay vigilant and not let yourself get too cocky. I think that might be the thing that gets 18-36 month riders. They start to get over-confident because they are becoming really skilled and realize it, but they get complacent and start pushing limits. Bad combination.

Anyway, if you've been riding less than a year I still call you a new rider. Just keep riding and laying down a foundation of proper technique and good habits. And have fun!
 
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