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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So bare with me as this is something of a narrative before the question:

Been with my girl for over a year now. She's a down to earth, unselfish sweetheart that's also the hottest girl I've ever dated and possibly ever seen, as well as being the funniest girl I have ever met. Seriously. I also love her like no one else I've ever known.

Now to the bad part...She has been through a lot in life, with a dad that cheated on her mom when she was a child and threw the family into turmoil (reconciled and now still married). Her parents consistently lied to her because they though that would make her life easier, which it didn't it made it worse. She was also raped when she was 13 by a family acquaintance that was never charged, and in a physically abusive relationship when she was younger. She's dealt with anorexia as well but not for some time. All this notwithstanding, she is a very strong person with a positive outlook on life, and she cares about me in a way I've never experienced.

A few months ago she left her facebook open. I'm a nosy person, so I stupidly(?) decided to look at her messages because she had been a very private person until then and I was curious. I'm well aware this can be called an invasion of privacy and I wish I hadn't...I think. Bottomline is I saw message to friends that I cannot unsee. In several of those messages I saw her say things that were in direct contradiction to stuff she has talked to me about. The vast majority of those things are otherwise non-important things that simply help smooth a relationship, i.e. have you done "x" thing with someone else, etc. I know why someone would say no. It makes the partner feel better. But she had some old exes and friends that had made sexual comments to her and although she didn't encourage as such she definitely didn't seem to mind and laughed about it. Ok...that sucks but I think it's nothing.

Then, I see a message talking to a friend where she tells him not to talk about (I'll say) "Steve" to me, because I don't know about him. Steve happened to be her best friend whose house she sometimes goes over to by herself (she lives in a different city). He's been in relationship for 10 years with a girl he clearly doesn't love enough to marry and I have figured all along had a thing for my girl. I freak out slightly and do a search of her messages. Turns out she dated him for months not knowing he had a girlfriend a couple years ago, after knowing him previously for 5 years as business acquaintances only and she was in a relationship then (done before she dated him). When the girlfriend returned from an extended trip my girl broke it off, but continued at random ccasional times to sleep with him while feeling bad about it. This continued for about 2.5 years with a 1 yr relationship on her part in between (don't know if she stayed away but think she did).

Fast forward to now. I'm an open-minded person and didn't mind her spending time with her best friend even if he was a guy (usually at his house), because I trusted her. However, not being an idiot I asked her if they'd ever dated or had a sexual relationship, knowing that guys nearly never see a woman differently when they've been sexually attracted to them. She denied it up and down several times, and asked if I thought steve "liked her." This happened several times because I knew, I KNEW something was up and she wasn't telling me the whole truth. Well, last month I confronted her and told her the truth and that I knew. She cried and said yes it was all true but that she had never cheated on me. She felt that there was some good in him and if she stayed friends with him eventually he would become a better person. You can call that a daddy complex or whatever. I believe that she didn't cheat on me, because she's a very traditional person that is the opposite of a barfly. She hates it when guys approach her, and had nothing but disgust for women that cheat. I want to be sure to convey she's a great girl.

My issue is lying has always been my #1 "I'm out" tr*****. I fucking hate liars, and try to stay away from them in relationships. If I didn't know her and know that she does everything she can to make people's lives better, I would have kicked her ass to the curb already. The problem is, I know she's kind-hearted and wants to help people. I've seen it many times with no benefit to herself...but my trust in her is shattered. I would never lay a hand on a woman, but there's a deep anger that I don't know how to get rid of and I hate her for lying to me basically for the entirety of our relationship. I love her and frankly was saving up for a ring. I genuinely wanted to marry this girl. Now I feel like it would be rolling the dice. I don't know if I could ever trust her again. I'm stuck between this complete lack of trust coupled with resentment, and loving her so much I can't imagine a life without her. How do I get over this?? Or should I even try?

Realize it's a random place to ask advice, but I know this forum well. Thanks guys (and hopefully gals).
 

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A guy on a scruffy bike
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There are some real, and serious, issues here that you will not get resolved in a thread on a bike forum. There is nothing more critical to a good longterm relationship than trust.

Find a good couples counselor and work it through. If the two of you do that together and can get an understanding worked out, then you'll have a solid basis to go forward from. If you can't get an understanding worked out, or if she (or you) won't go and give that a try, then I'd advise against getting married to her.

PhilB
 

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Hate to say it but if she hid childhood abuse/rape then she's probably a professional liar and its hard wired

She slept with Steve on occasion behind Steve's gf's back. Morally improper, shows a lack of boundaries

She lied to you repeatedly about Steve

Between the past abuse and eating disorder you are probably signing up for a lifetime of expensive health issues and lots of relationship crap

Also, abuse/rape victims basically have a bullseye on them for abusers who can see them a mile away. They will have no radar and low skills to protect themselves, so it's very possible something happens in the future too

Make sure shes worth it to you, it could be an enormous undertaking

Counseling or bail. That's your only two reasonable choices here. Your anger will eat at you and help erode the relationship


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There are some real, and serious, issues here that you will not get resolved in a thread on a bike forum. There is nothing more critical to a good longterm relationship than trust.

Find a good couples counselor and work it through. If the two of you do that together and can get an understanding worked out, then you'll have a solid basis to go forward from. If you can't get an understanding worked out, or if she (or you) won't go and give that a try, then I'd advise against getting married to her.

PhilB
My problem is I think she would say or do anything to keep me. She has shown a ton of guilt about it, and I know she's sorry, but I'm more concerned about the ramification of someone lying to my face multiple times about something she knew was a big deal to me. I know she didn't want to tell me because she was afraid I'd blow up on her like she's used to from past relationships (I don't and didn't), and the longer it went the b***** of a deal she knew it would be. My issues about this go b***** than just this situation. If she would lie to me so blatantly about this and for so long, what else is she hiding...what else would she lie to me about?

Hate to say it but if she hid the abuse/rape then she's a professional liar and its hard wired

She slept with Steve on occasion behind Steve's gf's back. Morally improper, shows a lack of boundaries

She lied to you repeatedly about Steve

Between the past abuse and eating disorder you are probably signing up for a lifetime of expensive health issues and lots of relationship crap

Also, abuse/rape victims basically have a bullseye on them for abusers who can see them a mile away. They will have no radar and low skills to protect themselves, so it's very possible something happens in the future too

Make sure shes worth it to you, it could be an enormous undertaking

Counseling or bail. That's your only two reasonable choices here. Your anger will eat at you and help erode the relationship

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She definitely has a bullseye on her. I've gotten her to cut so many of her so-called friends that I said, and later illustrated how, they were using her--whether for emotional draining or simply hanging around hoping she would sleep with them eventually (or again, as I now know). Also explained how mens' minds work, and that so many of her friends were assholes who could give two shits about her happiness.

I'm very concerned about what happens in the future. My job takes me away for months at a time on business trips every once in a while. I worry that she doesn't have the tools and emotional strength to stay away from users. Emotional cheating is as worrying to me as physical cheating. She's ok on the physical; I'm not so sure on the emotional. It's a new concept to her.
 

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Then, I see a message talking to a friend where she tells him not to talk about (I'll say) "Steve" to me, because I don't know about him. Steve happened to be her best friend whose house she sometimes goes over to by herself (she lives in a different city). He's been in relationship for 10 years with a girl he clearly doesn't love enough to marry and I have figured all along had a thing for my girl. I freak out slightly and do a search of her messages. Turns out she dated him for months not knowing he had a girlfriend a couple years ago, after knowing him previously for 5 years as business acquaintances only and she was in a relationship then (done before she dated him). When the girlfriend returned from an extended trip my girl broke it off, but continued at random ccasional times to sleep with him while feeling bad about it. This continued for about 2.5 years with a 1 yr relationship on her part in between (don't know if she stayed away but think she did).happened several times because I knew, I KNEW something was up and she wasn't telling me the whole truth.
They're FWBs, bro. Sorry. You know it. You knew something was wrong.

She can't be trusted. She has issues, and it's sad, but you can't fix it. If you're out of town you'll spend the whole time wondering if she's sleeping with Steve. And she WILL be sleeping with Steve. And it will drive you nuts. IMO you gotta get out.
 

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Phil has the right attitude. You have to decide if you want to try to make it work. If you do, there's a serious need for counseling - couples and possibly individual. What's left is speculation and I wish you the best of luck. It's not always easy to know when to cut your losses.

Beyond that, in my experience, eating disorders aren't something that ever go away. That's a lifelong struggle. Not insurmountable, but not something that's just in the past.

Also, it's worth remembering that there is a huge difference between accidentally seeing something and choosing to dig. The opportunity, in this case, was the only accident.


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So bare with me as this is something of a narrative before the question:

Been with my girl for over a year now. She's a down to earth, unselfish sweetheart that's also the hottest girl I've ever dated and possibly ever seen, as well as being the funniest girl I have ever met. Seriously. I also love her like no one else I've ever known.

Now to the bad part...She has been through a lot in life, with a dad that cheated on her mom when she was a child and threw the family into turmoil (reconciled and now still married). Her parents consistently lied to her because they though that would make her life easier, which it didn't it made it worse. She was also raped when she was 13 by a family acquaintance that was never charged, and in a physically abusive relationship when she was younger. She's dealt with anorexia as well but not for some time. All this notwithstanding, she is a very strong person with a positive outlook on life, and she cares about me in a way I've never experienced.

A few months ago she left her facebook open. I'm a nosy person, so I stupidly(?) decided to look at her messages because she had been a very private person until then and I was curious. I'm well aware this can be called an invasion of privacy and I wish I hadn't...I think. Bottomline is I saw message to friends that I cannot unsee. In several of those messages I saw her say things that were in direct contradiction to stuff she has talked to me about. The vast majority of those things are otherwise non-important things that simply help smooth a relationship, i.e. have you done "x" thing with someone else, etc. I know why someone would say no. It makes the partner feel better. But she had some old exes and friends that had made sexual comments to her and although she didn't encourage as such she definitely didn't seem to mind and laughed about it. Ok...that sucks but I think it's nothing.

Then, I see a message talking to a friend where she tells him not to talk about (I'll say) "Steve" to me, because I don't know about him. Steve happened to be her best friend whose house she sometimes goes over to by herself (she lives in a different city). He's been in relationship for 10 years with a girl he clearly doesn't love enough to marry and I have figured all along had a thing for my girl. I freak out slightly and do a search of her messages. Turns out she dated him for months not knowing he had a girlfriend a couple years ago, after knowing him previously for 5 years as business acquaintances only and she was in a relationship then (done before she dated him). When the girlfriend returned from an extended trip my girl broke it off, but continued at random ccasional times to sleep with him while feeling bad about it. This continued for about 2.5 years with a 1 yr relationship on her part in between (don't know if she stayed away but think she did).

Fast forward to now. I'm an open-minded person and didn't mind her spending time with her best friend even if he was a guy (usually at his house), because I trusted her. However, not being an idiot I asked her if they'd ever dated or had a sexual relationship, knowing that guys nearly never see a woman differently when they've been sexually attracted to them. She denied it up and down several times, and asked if I thought steve "liked her." This happened several times because I knew, I KNEW something was up and she wasn't telling me the whole truth. Well, last month I confronted her and told her the truth and that I knew. She cried and said yes it was all true but that she had never cheated on me. She felt that there was some good in him and if she stayed friends with him eventually he would become a better person. You can call that a daddy complex or whatever. I believe that she didn't cheat on me, because she's a very traditional person that is the opposite of a barfly. She hates it when guys approach her, and had nothing but disgust for women that cheat. I want to be sure to convey she's a great girl.

My issue is lying has always been my #1 "I'm out" tr*****. I fucking hate liars, and try to stay away from them in relationships. If I didn't know her and know that she does everything she can to make people's lives better, I would have kicked her ass to the curb already. The problem is, I know she's kind-hearted and wants to help people. I've seen it many times with no benefit to herself...but my trust in her is shattered. I would never lay a hand on a woman, but there's a deep anger that I don't know how to get rid of and I hate her for lying to me basically for the entirety of our relationship. I love her and frankly was saving up for a ring. I genuinely wanted to marry this girl. Now I feel like it would be rolling the dice. I don't know if I could ever trust her again. I'm stuck between this complete lack of trust coupled with resentment, and loving her so much I can't imagine a life without her. How do I get over this?? Or should I even try?

Realize it's a random place to ask advice, but I know this forum well. Thanks guys (and hopefully gals).

Dude.....there are SO.....SOOOOO many red flags here.

1. She lied. Lying always implies betrayal in a relationship.

2. She is a dif. person with you, than she is with her friends. Conflicting accounts and statements on the same subject matter.

3. She instructs others to be dishonest with you to conceal her own deceit. Furthermore her friends go along with this deception further encouraging her deception towards you. If her friends are not on your side, it will never work.

4. She bursts into tears when you confronted her. This seems to be an extreme reaction for what you found and an indicator of greater betrayal. Also seems like she was playing the "poor me" card and trying to turn your confrontation into a opportunity for her to remind you how "damaged" and "fragile" she is. So instead of being mad, you will feel bad for her and make you feel guilty about your suspicions.

5. Your description of her reaction sounds more like her performing "damage control". Confessing little and minimizing her role. Remember, she didn't ADMIT anything....only when confronted with un-disputable evidence did she stop lying. That is pathological.

6. She goes and hangs out with this guy ALONE at his house and does not take you with her? There are 2 reasons an adult woman and male hang out......woman wants money or guy and woman want sex with eachother.

7. You will NEVER trust her again because you know inside she is lying, and has betrayed you.

DO NOT FOOL YOURSELF with the whole "ohhh shes such a good person, she just wants to help him be a better person" She is not going to his house alone, without you, to try to be his personal therapist.

Go with your gut, because it is almost always RIGHT. I have been through this myself....do NOT waste your time trying to learn how to trust a liar. You will both be miserable and you will never trust her again....as you shouldn't.
 

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She has guilt tripped you nicely, she is a lying manipulating female dog and it will only get worse with time.

It doesn't matter how much you want to "work things out", you can't save a relationship more than you can same someone else.

Be grateful and get out of there.
 

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Hate to say it but if she hid the abuse/rape then she's a professional liar and its hard wired

She slept with Steve on occasion behind Steve's gf's back. Morally improper, shows a lack of boundaries

She lied to you repeatedly about Steve

Between the past abuse and eating disorder you are probably signing up for a lifetime of expensive health issues and lots of relationship crap

Also, abuse/rape victims basically have a bullseye on them for abusers who can see them a mile away. They will have no radar and low skills to protect themselves, so it's very possible something happens in the future too

Make sure shes worth it to you, it could be an enormous undertaking

Counseling or bail. That's your only two reasonable choices here. Your anger will eat at you and help erode the relationship


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com Free App

While I agree with your given options counseling or bail. I absolutely do not agree with done if your points.

Not disclosing abuse and rape immediately are not lying points. That's information that's personal sensitive and difficult to discuss especially with someone you care about. It hurts you and it hurts them. There is no right time to do that. And ultimately if you don't want to discuss it you shouldn't feel pressured to.

I also disagree that abuse victims have a target on their back. Almost other reasons why I disagree - I think that's just way to much of a blanket statement to say.


But I agree with the red flags. Lying is a huge no no. Either counseling or run the fuck away.
 

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If you want to and think that you can salvage the relationship, you owe it to yourselves to give it the best shot you can. Be that couples counselling, group counselling, moving to a swinger neighbourhood... Just don't "take a break". Distance does not make the heart grow fonder. It does, however, lead to sleeping with other people.

If you aren't willing to or think that you can salvage the relationship, you owe it to yourselves to end it ASAP. Yes, breaking up a serious relationship (I would qualify 1 year together as serious, IMO) is tough; sticking through the misery of a bad relationship is worse.
 

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Only read the first two sentences...google tom leykis archives.

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They're FWBs, bro. Sorry. You know it. You knew something was wrong.

She can't be trusted. She has issues, and it's sad, but you can't fix it. If you're out of town you'll spend the whole time wondering if she's sleeping with Steve. And she WILL be sleeping with Steve. And it will drive you nuts. IMO you gotta get out.
Sad to say, but bingo here. Its the undeniable truth. I've been there too, man. Caught her lying about trivial things, then caught contradictions about larger issues. She desperately denied everything, not to keep from losing me, but to keep from admitting she lied, i think. I fell for her so hard, that finding out the truth scared the hell out of me. But I hired a private investigator and found that my instincts were right. I thought i was something special. Blindsided, heart tore right out. It was hard to even breathe, realizing I wasnt what I thought I was to someone I really really loved. Like the saying goes, I love you, but I love myself more. Hurt like hell, and it still does. Best of luck to you bro. You're worth more than that tho. Time heals.
 

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I know my opinion has little credibility because of my youth, but I will give it anyway.

You want to salvage a relationship with a girl who is the sweetest funniest most innocent girl you know, but is a completely different person with anyone else.

She is lying to you and told her friends to lie to you also, and they do. So as far as you know you can't trust her or the people she is around.

She depises cheaters and whatnot, but then why is she still seeing this guy while she is with you? Why go to his house alone? Even if she wasn't bringing you, why not bring any other of her friends?

The backstory about her life is tragic, but that is not an excuse to lie to someone you have been seeing for some time. She is doing to you what her dad did to her mom.

Marriage with her isn't going to work out. I dealt with similiar a situation in which my wife was one way with me and completely different to everyone else, would lie about it and have her friends lie about it to cover her ass. THen would never ADMIT to anything until i bluntly tell her i found the evidence. I have tried to hold on and salvage the marriage and see where that has gotten me...divorce at the 2 1/3 year mark when i should have divorced 2 years ago.

Your feeling guilty over someone who is using all the traumatic experiences to make you feel sorry for her and want to believe she is a better person than she really is. If she was as good as you are trying to make us believe, then why has she not done anything to improve her situation? It will be almost irrevelant how she is with you, it is more important how she is when she is NOT around you.

My verdict: Drop her and move on.
 

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PIITB and move on. Lmao SBN to the rescue!
 

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Had to be said. Wouldn't put up with a lying skank for long, no matter how sweet she looked or however good her punchlines. There are some really nasty venereal diseases out there, and sticking with a lying cheating wench is a good way to catch one.

What's the difference between a slut and a bitch?




The slut sleeps with everybody. The bitch sleeps with everybody but you.
 

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While I agree with your given options counseling or bail. I absolutely do not agree with done if your points.

Not disclosing abuse and rape immediately are not lying points. That's information that's personal sensitive and difficult to discuss especially with someone you care about. It hurts you and it hurts them. There is no right time to do that. And ultimately if you don't want to discuss it you shouldn't feel pressured to.

I also disagree that abuse victims have a target on their back. Almost other reasons why I disagree - I think that's just way to much of a blanket statement to say.


But I agree with the red flags. Lying is a huge no no. Either counseling or run the fuck away.

Sorry but I have the wreckage of first hand experience and years of counseling to back up what I posted

Every case is unique but they are common clinical conditions

Victims of child abuse grow up learning to lie to cover for the abuser. If they didn't, the abuse wouldn't continue. This wires the child's brain differently.

A single case of being raped as an adult is totally different

Not disclosing immediately? Fine, but it can lead to lying. Like my wife telling me she was a virgin when we met. Or me trying trying to mend fences with her father who raped her, often with a knife to the throat, from age 3 to 17

I've spend prolly $50k plus on counciling. To help her and us. Hundreds of thousands on medical complications from the trauma and anorexia

My life is in ruins, and the end result will be divorce soon

I tried to be a good guy and work through it. 25 years down the crapper. All my money, my youth, my happiness and my health were all sacrificed, in the end for what?

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