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First let me say that I am not easily offended. This statement may seem contradictory to what some may think but when it comes to race I am as thick-skinned as it gets. I am from a real "ghetto" in this sense of the word:
: a quarter of a city in which members of a minority group live especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure : an isolated group : a situation that resembles a ghetto especially in conferring inferior status or limiting opportunity
I, and many parents that have children are from the above described. One way of minimizing the effect of living in a ghetto is to joke about it. Laughter tends to ease the effect of a horrid situation. So we joked. From this came the picture of the "happy negro" .It was ok to joke amongst the people who were affected by the same situation that was being joked about. It is kind of like one can talk junk about their own family but when some one else does it it is not cool. Same here. Now to go a little deeper. Blacks can call other blacks the "N" word all day long (which I personally do not do)...it's all in the family. The difference is,(and a lot of younger blacks do not know this), the "er" historically is/was reminiscent of the pronunciatin that slave masters used, so the "er" was dropped and replaced with "a" or "ah" as a way to "desenstize" the effects of the word. Can a non black person say that with out raising eyebrows? No. Just as a non Spanish person can not call a Spanish person a "SpicK" withouth the same eyebrows being raised.
Still...it's all in the family so to speak. Should anyone use these terms? Not around me or my family.
A lot of times non blacks say that they hang with blacks all the time and can "kick it" with them. That might be true, but most blacks have a line that should not be crossed when it comes to these issues; as do any other race of people. When blacks are alone and reflect on the day it is an issue. We as blacks have an "Emmitt Till" syndrone to a degree. Meaning that one should not challenge the authority of any white person. Wheather that is your perspective or wheather it is conscious is not the issue. There are a lot of these kinds of indoctrinations happening in every race. The endowment myth comes to mind. You tell a white man over 35 that their daughter is dating a Black guy, and for some reason there are moments of unrest. You say that to most white men in the south, regardless of age, there are moments of unrest and at times shown dis contentment. Right wrong or indifferent...that is how it is from my perception. We all have lines some may not have been tested yet some already proven as to where they exist.
I have said many times that a look from another's perspective is what is required to effectively discuss race. This is true with any situation that requires discussion and varying points of view. The breakdown is when one's opinion is devalued and discounted as a non issue. This, I think, produces the most hostility because one obvously has not, could not, will not look at the situation from a perspective other than their own. I am blessed with a beautiful, educated ,wonderful wife that requires me to look at things from a different perspective. My position at work requires it, her family requires it, my surroundings require it, the Boards of Directors I am on require it, my position in my community require it. A lot of successful blacks are required to take a different perspective. A perspective that is different than one they were raised with because of the structure of this nation. This same requirement is not expected of non minorities. (A white woman's perspective is also a minority...so don't get it twisted). Non minorities dealing with minorities and are able to see another perspective are most typical to the exception.However they are labeled a "bleeding heart liberal" because of beable to transcend to that perception. Not casting a judgement of wheather the described is right wrong or indifferent, nor am I saying that I need special treatment...I personally do not...I am saying that from my perspective this is true. These things are a start as to why religious, racial, squidly behavior, political, and other discussions go astray. The notion and sometimes seemingly the need of I am right and you are not case closed prevails.
So my challenge to every one is have an open mind, not so it can be changed, but so another perspective can be seen. This could lead to change but that is not the objective. Stick to your convictions...relay them in a positive manner...maybe that can lead to a positive discussion thus bridging the gaps that are all around us.
 

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wow, that was deep and thoughfull. If you don't mind me asking, what motivated you to write this?
 

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Very nice thread Kyoung.. I'm the Diversity Chair Person for my work and what you said is what we as a company is striving for.

There is a video called "Color of Fear" which does a great job to showing what you just said. Mainly your statement of "The breakdown is when one's opinion is devalued and discounted as a non issue."

Anyway - You did good by posting this.. I would never post anything like this because I generally don't have much faith in people in public forums.. but kudos to you.

and I'm a Fiscal Conservative! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Filip75 said:
wow, that was deep and thoughfull. If you don't mind me asking, what motivated you to write this?
There have been several threads that were locked before I could respond as I wanted to. They were race related. I just want to express how I am to this board.
 

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That is a deep thread. You make very good points.
I personally was raised to treat people as they are not because of their color.
I know white, black, and spanish people. There are a few I think should be killed. It has nothing to do with their color. If everyone would treat people as people and not as a color we wouldnt have half the problems we do.

Being from the north and moving to the south was an eye opener. I have never seen such blatant racism. Thats a whole 'nother thread though..
 

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kyoung said:
I am from a real "ghetto" in this sense of the word......I, and many parents that have children are from the above described. One way of minimizing the effect of living in a ghetto is to joke about it. Laughter tends to ease the effect of a horrid situation.
Been there...done that, got the t-shirt and a balloon. But Like you I came out of it and can look BACK upon it with another perspective.

I rose out of it on my own. You rose out of it on your own. My best friend growing up, Darren, rose out of it on HIS own.

We attended k-12 and College together, and together we got gratifying jobs with titles that you can hold your head up high while saying


What’s the difference between you and me?


You know, and I know, and most of the members HERE know. But what you DON’T know is what the difference is between me and Darren.


Now you can probably GUESS because of the tone of the thread. But realize too, that we lived within a rocks throw of one another from birth to college…..scored the same (within 100 points) on our SAT’s and went to the same college making relatively the same grades (different majors)

We are now both professionals. Middle income, family men.


Both had the same opportunities, and on paper were the same.

Was one of us given more opportunity than the other? Nope.



I look back and see that I came out of it with hard work and persistence. I also look back and see that Darren made it out with hard work and persistence. The difference? There is none. Darren was just as determined to get out of there as I was because he knew he didn’t belong…just as I knew I didn’t belong there. I was better than that, and so was he. Where the difference came into play was when we were out of class in college goofing off on the wall outside the caf, where they could use words that I couldn’t. However, I knew of this magic line/barrier and knew never to cross into it because I would ALWAYS be considered an outsider because I was different. I knew my place. I knew I could never say what they said, and be at ease as they were at ease, and I knew I could NEVER relax and let slip what I heard SO many times said straight up in front of me, and sometimes was even called myself to the tone of their acceptance. But it was an unwritten rule that was never spoken, that I was NEVER to use the language they used, nor the nicknames they used.

What was the difference? There was a massive one


I don’t pity the under-privileged. My heart does not extend to those who chose to accept what circumstances surround them and never aspire to do anything ABOUT that.

I’m probably WORSE than an up-tight right wing, silver-spoon-up-the-ass conservative. I’m a conservative that’s BEEN poor and knows there no excuse for STAYING poor.

The DIFFERENCE is, I know what a driven person is capable of. And I know a just plain SORRY person is as well. The DIFFERENCE is….I call it like I see it and that infuriates people because they believe I’m doing so without any basis or knowledge of what I speak of…when in reality I know far more than I should.


Mr. Young..let me take this time to tip my hat to you and congratulate you on a lifestyle well earned, and tell you that you have a magnificent wife that’s tougher than nails.


But contrary to what many who KNOW my background might think…..should my children decide to date outside of their race, I will try to discourage it.

Why? YOU know why Mr. Young……You’ve BEEN there. Isn’t a relationship HARD ENOUGH already WITHOUT the stress of the staring, condescending attitude, shunning and basic ignorance from those surrounding you added to it?

Yes your wife is worth it….and yes I’m sure you’d have it no other way, but as with every aspect surrounding your children….you do NOT want them going thru the hardships you went thru as a child…be it financial struggles; getting picked on for wearing tough-skins, bo-bo shoes, hand-me-downs, catching the bus in “that” neighborhood

Race relations; getting picked on for not being the right color

Transportation struggles; having to walk to that job or home from that sports practice

You’re not going to accept that for your child….you want MORE for your children than YOU had. You want your child to have it BETTER than you did. Am I right?

I try to protect my children from pain…..physical, emotional….whatever it may be…it’s my instinct as a parent. And while I will LOVE whoever they bring home to me, regardless of color, creed, sex, size, number of legs, I WILL attempt to shelter them from the pain associated with inter-racial relationships.

Especially after seeing what Darren had to go thru as a black man with a white wife.

They’re now divorced…….and it’s not because they didn’t love each other...it's because the world is a cruel place....
 

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IMO these issues will be non-issues when we all stop making them issues. i believe that attention to diversity, race, and all these other things that draw attention to these issues is part of the problem. it will only go away when people stop drawing attention to what color someone is or where they're from...etc.

it's hard to convey what i believe here, and i hope no one takes it the wrong way, but i think the pertanent questions are: why do we recognize diversity now, and what does it help? do you honestly believe that showing movies and documentation stating that people are different is going to change the biggots and racists or enlighten the people that don't give a crap anyway? i don't think so...

IMO i don't think that calling someone a racist name is any different than calling someone fat, ugly, etc.

congratulations on your triumphs and successes, but let me ask this--does it make me less of a man because my triumphs and successes started from a better neighborhood? isn't that in itself racist or biggotry?

IMO race and background and whatnot are all non-issues. the only thing i concentrate on when dealing with other people are how they are treating me. are they nice or an asshole--that's the bottom line.
 

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Mucho Gonzales said:
congratulations on your triumphs and successes, but let me ask this--does it make me less of a man because my triumphs and successes started from a better neighborhood? isn't that in itself racist or biggotry?

I don't think anyone is discounting that. IMHO that doesn't downplay any of your success, nor would it if you had STARTED rich.

The only person I look down on is a person who would rather have a free ride than work for themselves....be it a rich son riding the wave of daddy success or a scrub that is content with gov cheese and 3 40's a day
 

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Discussion Starter #9
CasterTroy said:
Mr. Young..let me take this time to tip my hat to you and congratulate you on a lifestyle well earned, and tell you that you have a magnificent wife that’s tougher than nails.


But contrary to what many who KNOW my background might think…..should my children decide to date outside of their race, I will try to discourage it.

Why? YOU know why Mr. Young……You’ve BEEN there. Isn’t a relationship HARD ENOUGH already WITHOUT the stress of the staring, condescending attitude, shunning and basic ignorance from those surrounding you added to it?

Yes your wife is worth it….and yes I’m sure you’d have it no other way, but as with every aspect surrounding your children….you do NOT want them going thru the hardships you went thru as a child…be it financial struggles; getting picked on for wearing tough-skins, bo-bo shoes, hand-me-downs, catching the bus in “that” neighborhood

Race relations; getting picked on for not being the right color

Transportation struggles; having to walk to that job or home from that sports practice

You’re not going to accept that for your child….you want MORE for your children than YOU had. You want your child to have it BETTER than you did. Am I right?

I try to protect my children from pain…..physical, emotional….whatever it may be…it’s my instinct as a parent. And while I will LOVE whoever they bring home to me, regardless of color, creed, sex, size, number of legs, I WILL attempt to shelter them from the pain associated with inter-racial relationships.

Especially after seeing what Darren had to go thru as a black man with a white wife.

They’re now divorced…….and it’s not because they didn’t love each other...it's because the world is a cruel place....
WHile I applaud and share many of your thoughts my perspective on the inter racial issue is different.
I do not know your friend, but true love,in my case, does prevail over all the BS that this world provides. My step daughter is a 15 year old white girl. She lives with us. Her dad used to hate it. But the lessons she has learned from this situation is far more well rounded than any lesson she could learn from her father's mono environment as far as love and committment are concerned.
I am now the one he comes to to try and connect with her. I do not think that the children can not handle it...their peer group is now more blended than ever. It is up to them to unite or divide. For us to infer how tough our kids are is to sell them short of the tenacity you posessed in order to rise above your circumstances.
I have been shot at (4 times), not hired, spit at, spit on (I threw him through a window at a local Huddle House), discriminated against...but it has made me who I am and has prepared me for the roles I play today. Without those experiences I could not be here. For me the kid issue is a cop out that may need to be examined at a deeper level. Lord knows I am not accusing you of anything other than being ultra conservative which you already admit to being. I once told you that things have to fit into a box for you to make sense of them..that's ok and your choice but could your children have the support they really deserve if they chose another way if you are discouraging a choice? I am sorry Darren and his relationship did not work but there are countless others that do inspite of the outside influeces they experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Mucho Gonzales said:
IMO these issues will be non-issues when we all stop making them issues. i believe that attention to diversity, race, and all these other things that draw attention to these issues is part of the problem. it will only go away when people stop drawing attention to what color someone is or where they're from...etc.

it's hard to convey what i believe here, and i hope no one takes it the wrong way, but i think the pertanent questions are: why do we recognize diversity now, and what does it help? do you honestly believe that showing movies and documentation stating that people are different is going to change the biggots and racists or enlighten the people that don't give a crap anyway? i don't think so...

IMO i don't think that calling someone a racist name is any different than calling someone fat, ugly, etc.

congratulations on your triumphs and successes, but let me ask this--does it make me less of a man because my triumphs and successes started from a better neighborhood? isn't that in itself racist or biggotry?

IMO race and background and whatnot are all non-issues. the only thing i concentrate on when dealing with other people are how they are treating me. are they nice or an asshole--that's the bottom line.
I agree with you. But until we are all to that point there has to be a balance.
I treat people as I want to be treated and it seems you do the same...that is a start...teach it to your kids. A lot of people do not teach that basic concept to their kids and the cycle continues.
 

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kyoung said:
I am not accusing you of anything other than being ultra conservative which you already admit to being. I once told you that things have to fit into a box for you to make sense of them..that's ok and your choice but could your children have the support they really deserve if they chose another way if you are discouraging a choice? .

You're right


Ultimatly a child has to TOUCH a hot stove to know what HOT is



I know this....and ultimatly I allow my children to fall and scuff their knees to realize they can't fly. But not before warning them


Like I said.....I'm not opposed to it. It WIL be a growing experience. But I will voice my concern before allowing them to feel that pain. While this may be ultra conservative......I'm sure you can see the logic behind it. Me personally? I wouldn't consider that ultra conservative. FORBIDDING it to me would be ultra.....I feel like I'm more along the lines of a skeptical conservative open to possiblities of growth
 

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Some of my many thoughts on the issues raised here are:

The notions that kyoung so eloquently originally raised, to me coming from the "west" (not north nor south), seem to be obvious. For example, there were certain words that I was taught never to use period. The "n" word was just not part of my vocabularly and I cringed whenever anyone used it (still do). Is it OK for blacks to use that word with each other? I don't know, but it bothers me to hear it in that context even today. Do different people have different reference points depending on how they grew up? You bet. Can we live with it? Again, you bet.

Older generations in the US have experienced prejudices that have been less of an issue for each subsequent generation. My mother experienced real religious prejudice. I have not. Over time people are learning that what was once (wrongly) considered OK behavior (maybe even funny) is no longer generally accepted in our society. Given our current cultural direction, over time (maybe a couple more generations), the "old" notions of prejudice will continue to fade until they are all genuinely non-issues. I do think that some areas of the country will reach this stage of "enlightenment" sooner than others.

My daughter dated a black young man (I almost said boy but thought better of using that word although they were boy and girl at the time) for a time. Did I "like" it? No, not really. Did I say or do anything about it? No, it likely would have made him more desirable in her mind. Did they break up after a while? Yes, probably becasue his mother was a total whack-o that couldn't deal with him being out let alone her not knowing exactly where he was at all time.

If you look at an individual's success in society, it is usually obvious whether it was from hard work or it being handed to them. Do some of us have more obstacles in our way toward success? Sure. Does that make any of us better than the other? I don't think so. What matters is what we do with the hand we are dealt.

I forget what network has the new show "the 4400" or whatever it's called about the 4400 alien abductees who are suddenly all returned to earth at the same time. They were allegedly taken at various times over the past 40 or 50 years and haven't aged over that time. One set of characters is really interesting in the vain of this thread. A black man was abducted in the '50's. He was in love with a white woman at the time who is now dead, but he found the woman's granddaughter (also abducted?). Only on TV. They are now in love and he is reacting to the changes in attitudes over the 50 years that he has missed. It's quite an interesting character study.

Anyway, good thread with lots of thought put into expressing one's views.
 

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It's good to see a mature discussion about a serious topic on SBN for a change without any idiotic comments.

About the interacial relationships, I've been in one for 19 months (I'm Chinese, my GF is of European decent) and I have not heard of these outside pressures some of you speak of. The only thing I can think of is my parents, they would prefer me to date only an asian, but that's because they're immigrants from Hong Kong. They've gotten used to the idea and don't pose any real problems to our relationship. It may be different in other parts of the country, but I think maybe in the western part of the US is different than the South, Midwest, North, etc. Then again, from what i've seen there is more of a social stigmatism when it's a black man/white woman interacial relationship.
 

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I grew up in a poor black neigborhood. My family was the only white family. ONLY the black preachers family accepted us. His son was my best friend. I was spit on, beat up and called honkie when I was only in 1st grade, numerous times through out elementary school though. Not until I surpassed the neighborhood in baskestball skills was I accepted. Kinda funny. It goes both ways. None of that has changed the way I feel about any race though. We are all the same, like it or not. Brothers and Sisters :)
 
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