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So after riding around for a year I decided to take the MSF for the purpose of a license and insurance break. Little did I know that the instructor was an idiot.

During the class discussion he made a point to tell everyone "It doesn't matter how hard you grip the front brakes -on any motorcycle-, you will never flip over". I asked how people performed endos, he answered, "endos?", and then said that no stock bike will ever flip. It would have to be specially designed if it were to flip. Personally, I've lifted my rear tire quite a few times.

This started to become a problem on the course when during the "hard braking procedure", a lady gripped hard on the front brakes and semi-highsided. Locked that puppy right up.

Another girl went down when he set up a few tight radius turns, and said "just turn the steering wheel as much as you want to turn". She locked the steering wheel and lowsided at 5-10mph. Not bad but entirely avoidable if there was proper instruction.

Apparently, being the god at motorcycling he is, he showed me how I was braking wrong. In the "emergency stop situation", he had to nitpick every single time I came by. Probably to assert his authority. He explained that "at the cone was a UPS truck that's pulling out onto the road". I said OK, and stopped extremely quickly, didnt put my feet down, and then rolled through at like 1-2mph. Obviously he want's you to make a complete stop for as long as it takes the car behind you to rear end you. Thats ok, It was just a misunderstanding the first time. The second time, just like the first, while I was braking very hard I shifted into 1st. Obviously, if you're in an emergency situation, you want to be in a HIGH GEAR so that you cannot get out of it if you need to move /sarcasm. He said that he wanted both feet down, then shift into 1st, then move. I did that the 3rd time, just to humor him, and then he complained that my entry speed was too high. Sure I was going in faster than everyone else and braking harder than everyone else, but isn't the exercise to practice *emergency* braking, and aren't most emergency braking situations at more than 10 mph?

Through the oval course he kept telling people to speed up, which didn't bother me a bit, and I was dragging pegs around each corner. Deciding that I didn't want to drag any more hard parts, I leaned off to the direction I was turning. I was immediately stopped, and told that "You're not supposed to change body position on bikes, and even if you were, you lean the OTHER way"

He didn't want people to look through the turn, but rather, he wanted them to look AT THE END OF THE NEXT STRAIGHTAWAY. Yeah. Good luck guy. Have you ever ridden outside of that parking lot? Has there ever been anything on the ground you've had to avoid? Has there ever been trees or hills on the sides of turns, or do they make curvy roads for NO REASON? Why would you look toward something you couldnt see (and neglect everything infront of you), and even if you could, its not part of the corner..... it's nearly looking behind you. He explained that every single person target fixates (though he didn't use that big word) and that you will CRASH if you aren't looking 5 minutes away.

Do they give out MSF instructor positions as a part of community service? "You ride?" "Yeah I ride a Harley" "Welcome to MSF"

All in all, I learned nothing. Though I sure got a migraine for free out in that parking lot for 5 hours. I recommend this class to anyone that has never driven any type of motorcycle or dirtbike ONLY.
 

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Is it too late for a refund?
 

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what's up bitches
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man that sucks. good thing you know how to ride though.... im thankful my two instructors are smart and well experienced, cause im learning.
 

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Yeah, that's the trouble with cruiser riders teaching MSF. But then again I would bet most of the students are buying cruisers, so maybe it's appropriate.
 

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Are you kidding me? Get that guy fired. If the MSF is about safety, he's not qualified. You were disruptive and setting a really bad example for the students who needed to learn that stuff, but his reaction was dumb and wrong.

I got lectured for deliberately locking up the rear wheel (I wanted to find out how it felt to ride a skid), and another person was told to lighten up for peg scraping, but I think it's good to know that stuff is not such a big deal. Anyway, I think I'm going to take ART at the end of the summer. Oregon instructors are the best, and I'm not worried about getting a turd like that guy.
 

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Thats great. One of my instructor coaches (out of 4) was pretty ignorant. He told the class he didn't believe that the front brake had most of the stopping power. Just about everyone in the class looked at him like he was an idiot though.

The rest of the instructors were pretty good though.
 

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out of my two instructors... one was pretty dumb.
he couldnt speak well, and said shit that didnt make sense alot, but he knew his shit on the bike and didnt tell us anything wrong out there. except he got mad when I didnt use all 4 fingers to squeeze the brake lever, something that's not generally a good idea on a sportbike.

the other teacher was a real mild mannered guy with AMA and NESBA stickers on his FZ1 (track head). he really had his shit together, and pulled me aside to give me tips on my low speed counterleaning. helped me out alot. he also laughed when I scared another student by scraping the pegs on the 250 cruiser (not much of a feat).
 

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In my hometown you can't get MSF classes anymore. The guy that used to taught them quit because he hated the curriculum they pushed. He still teaches how to ride but it is private lessons for people that want to race.
 

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Man, that really sucks. My MSF experience was not bad at all. There were a few things the guy nitpicked me for that got on my nerves, but for the most part it was pretty good. I dragged some pegs and all he said was that my entry speed was probably a bit high for the MSF course if I was dragging pegs, but he at least knew what he was talking about for the most part. The guy you had sounds like a total douche bag, and I hate that he actually carries the MSF name.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I forgot to mention that he was also teaching counter-steering to people who were going about 10 mph or less. Good thing no one listened.
 

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i scraped pegs in the msf and i had never ridden...it was only after scraping pegs and resisting the urge to slow down and try and straighten up, that i learned to trust that the bike will not drop me and REEEEEELAX accordingly...sometimes you have to see what the bike can do (mild version, not breakneck speed type of "see") to be able to trust what's going on. Lucky for me they didn't get on me for scraping my bootheel or pegs...sometimes i was going into a corner too wide so to make myself stay in the lines i had to lean harder.

Some things they teach in msf i realize people don't do it in real life except at those very low speeds...like a guy on here (sbn) explained to me why i NEVER see anybody "counterleaning" their bikes out on the road, they all lean WITH the bikes, and why they tell me to lean with them and the bike as well: because counterleaning only works at low speeds...i am very glad for my course, but even gladder i have a friend that's willing to slow down for me and help me learn what happens at 50 and 60 mph and up...

and those guys yell out way too many f*cking instructions/criticisms at once. at one point one of the guys even said to me "you know you're not going to pass this course right?"...and i was like what kind of inspiration is that, for one of the instructors to put that sh*t in my head before the test? this is beginner course, not refresher course...even experienced guys who were taking it as a refresher course thought it was going too fast. and i have heard there are msf schools around florida with a LOT more riding time than this one gives. but hey, i now have the go ahead to get out there and learn on my bike...and taking more time on my own to practice was what i needed, not somebody predicting my failure...
 

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ershank, i'd report him. that's not how it should be taught. his site manager will have a talking with him.
But then again I would bet most of the students are buying cruisers, so maybe it's appropriate.
maybe in your neck of the woods. alot of students here intend on buying the latest and greatest sportbikes. there are twisties w/in 30min. in any direction of the bay area.
I forgot to mention that he was also teaching counter-steering to people who were going about 10 mph or less.
countersteering still works <10mph ;) start going under 8mph...well...
something that's not generally a good idea on a sportbike.
why?
 

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jim schmidt said:
So let me get this straight. You're under the impression that your bike will flip over before your front tire loses traction?
I'm under the impression that his R6 will do that as well. Given good tires, decent road conditions.
 

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ExtraJ said:
out of my two instructors... one was pretty dumb.
he couldnt speak well, and said shit that didnt make sense alot, but he knew his shit on the bike and didnt tell us anything wrong out there. except he got mad when I didnt use all 4 fingers to squeeze the brake lever, something that's not generally a good idea on a sportbike.

the other teacher was a real mild mannered guy with AMA and NESBA stickers on his FZ1 (track head). he really had his shit together, and pulled me aside to give me tips on my low speed counterleaning. helped me out alot. he also laughed when I scared another student by scraping the pegs on the 250 cruiser (not much of a feat).
What the hell does he expect you to hold on to the bars with? Take off fast not holding onto the bars and its not going to be pretty. :urowned
 

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what I don't understand is they tell you to always always use the front and rear brake...never just one by itself.

so why were were we told to weave thru cones using only the rear brake? I don't get it.
 

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My msf instructor on washington was awsome. He rode a kawi concourse and knew his shit. I agree you need to report him. It sounds like he's creating [/B] dangerous motorcycle riders.
Its to bad you had such a bad experience.
 

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what I don't understand is they tell you to always always use the front and rear brake...never just one by itself.

so why were were we told to weave thru cones using only the rear brake? I don't get it.
cause it provides the most amount of braking.

they told you to use only the rear brake when you weaved through the cones? that's not part of the curriculum....never once are students to use only 1 side of the brakes, it's ALWAYS both brakes all the time.
 
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