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EEfz6 said:
No, but I can point out an instance where my sister was. At UAB, there is a Mr. & Mrs. UAB contest every year. When my sister attended, she got first runner up. Never thought about it much until she later gat a job at UAB. Found out from a friend of hers that worked there, who worked with the pagent, that they never choose a man or a woman of the same race that won the year before. The reason she did not win was because a white woman won the year before.

You can call it whining if you want to. In reality, it is mearly pointing out fact thatI have observed since getting into the real world, and that those facts directly dispute the context of this thread.
and on the flip side a black man or woman would not win because a person of that race won the previous year. 6 of one, half dozen of another.
 

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malik ross said:
and on the flip side a black man or woman would not win because a person of that race won the previous year. 6 of one, half dozen of another.
Fair enough and just as wrong and unfair, white, black, purple, yellow it doesnt matter.


When "guidelines" like that are put in place, it sure as hell isnt to placate all the white people, would you agree?

The fact that such a "guideline" exists is wrong. No matter WHO preferential treatment helps, its wrong, period.
 

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malik ross said:
and on the flip side a black man or woman would not win because a person of that race won the previous year. 6 of one, half dozen of another.
Except that the reason that this was in place, or so my sister was told, was to insure that the NAACP could find no grounds to sue them based on this pageant. Would my sister have actually won? We will never know. It is possible that the best canidate did win. But it is discrimination when, to appease this lobby, she did not have a chance.

And yes, hangelow, that is what I am trying to say, even if it is not what I am getting across. Race should in no way, ever be a factor. Personal merit should be the only thing ever considered.
 

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EEfz6 said:
And yes, hangelow, that is what I am trying to say, even if it is not what I am getting across. Race should in no way, ever be a factor. Personal merit should be the only thing ever considered.
Don't know the details of this pageant and am not a particular fan of the pageant mentality to begin with.

Let's take a more meaningful scenario: You are a hiring manager and you have narrowed your job search down to two individuals who you feel are equally qualified; one has light skin, the other dark skin. You are aware that the world you live in has created an economic disparity against dark-skinned people and these same people are under represented in your company. Would you or would you not take that into consideration? If not, how would you decide? Flip a coin? Have them arm wrestle? How about women versus men?

In a perfect world, I would agree with your premise that race should not be a factor. However, in the real world it historically has been and is a factor that has lead to unfair treatment of particular classes of people. Now you are in a position to choose.
 

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thats pretty easy Dave...........someone has to have an edge somewhere on the other. And if it is that close, go with your gut..........who is going to make you more money?

We all know that history has been filled with atrociousitys (sp?) but the longer you keep beating the horse the longer it stays in your focus of it being a possibility.

Its not all that hard to look at a man and not see his color. For some I suppose it could be, after all you fear what you dont understand but I have a pretty good understanding of people in general.

*edit* While I know what your saying, yes some people would be ignorant to do that kind of thing and descriminate, I think you only procreate the cycle of it by saying its most assuredly going to be so. Why should I have to pick the black guy for fear of being called a racist?

Shouldnt we all really try to think a bit higher of ourselves?
 

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BusaDave said:
Don't know the details of this pageant and am not a particular fan of the pageant mentality to begin with.

Let's take a more meaningful scenario: You are a hiring manager and you have narrowed your job search down to two individuals who you feel are equally qualified; one has light skin, the other dark skin. You are aware that the world you live in has created an economic disparity against dark-skinned people and these same people are under represented in your company. Would you or would you not take that into consideration? If not, how would you decide? Flip a coin? Have them arm wrestle? How about women versus men?

In a perfect world, I would agree with your premise that race should not be a factor. However, in the real world it historically has been and is a factor that has lead to unfair treatment of particular classes of people. Now you are in a position to choose.
You just proved my point by accident. Because of the color of his skin the dark skinned individual gets preferential treatment and gets the job.

It goes further than that, however. If the lightskinned individual is more qualified, the dark skinned individual is still generally going to get the job for the same reasons. The light skinned individual must be far enough beyond the dark skinned individual, as far as qualifications, to overcome, at least in the employers eye, everything you just said.

And as far as being equal in every way, that will almost never happen. Even if the qualifications are the same, there will be different personalities. That is why there is an interveiw. I would pick the person that would best fit the atmosphere of the company I was hiring him for. As hybrid said, I would go with my gut.
 

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hybrid said:
Its not all that hard to look at a man and not see his color.
Perhaps you meant to say it's not that hard not to care about a man's color, but based on results I'd have to say you're wrong. You surely don't mean to tell me you literally don't see a persons clearly visible traits!

For some I suppose it could be, after all you fear what you dont understand but I have a pretty good understanding of people in general.
I don't spend much time fearing people unless the situation warrants and based on how you choose to interact I'll just have to take you at your word for having a good understanding of people.

*edit* While I know what your saying, yes some people would be ignorant to do that kind of thing and descriminate, I think you only procreate the cycle of it by saying its most assuredly going to be so. Why should I have to pick the black guy for fear of being called a racist?
I didn't say anything about "assuredly so", nor did I suggest you pick "the black guy" for fear of being called a racist. I set up a scenario whereby you changed the rules to pick one of the two without saying which one thereby avoiding the question.

Shouldnt we all really try to think a bit higher of ourselves?
I don't know, you tell me. Perhaps we all should really try to think a bit more highly of OTHERS!
 

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Love how you try to play on the words I use Dave.

Does it benefit you to spin it?

I dont "see" a persons color. I could care less what shade of melanin they have.

People do fear what they dont understand.

I can read most anyone in a very short amount of time, its a natural talent of mine. Dont let the computer fool you Dave, Ive been around the block many a time.

I did tell you what I thought about your "hypothetical" situation. You cant honestly tell me that you wanted it to be two identical resumes dropped on my desk. If it was that down to the wire........Id pick the guy that made me laugh or feel confident in his abilities. Id descriminate against their personalities. In my line of work, you have to be able to deal with people so the more confident person would get the job.

Anymore spinning you want to do Dave?
 

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Discussion Starter #49
hybrid said:
Love how you try to play on the words I use Dave.

Does it benefit you to spin it?

I dont "see" a persons color. I could care less what shade of melanin they have.

People do fear what they dont understand.

I can read most anyone in a very short amount of time, its a natural talent of mine. Dont let the computer fool you Dave, Ive been around the block many a time.

I did tell you what I thought about your "hypothetical" situation. You cant honestly tell me that you wanted it to be two identical resumes dropped on my desk. If it was that down to the wire........Id pick the guy that made me laugh or feel confident in his abilities. Id descriminate against their personalities. In my line of work, you have to be able to deal with people so the more confident person would get the job.

Anymore spinning you want to do Dave?

Nobody's spinning. Your utterances speak for themselves.
 

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BusaDave said:
Perhaps we all should really try to think a bit more highly of OTHERS!
I'm glad someone else understands this. Thank you Dave.

BTW, I know it's not forum protocol, but:

+1,000,000
 

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license2ill said:
Nobody's spinning. Your utterances speak for themselves.
Your still not bringing anything to the table. Keep hiding behind Dave.
 

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BUSADAVE....... arent YOU the one continuing the stereotype?

All I and a few others have said is DO NOT DISCRIMINATE, PERIOD.

Yet you and L2Ill continue to propogate how it is acceptable to discriminate.

Do you disagree with the fact that is what you are doing?

Regardless of how you want to excuse it or reason with it, YOU are the ones continuing to discriminate against someone for their look/color, not me.
 

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EEfz6 said:
You just proved my point by accident. Because of the color of his skin the dark skinned individual gets preferential treatment and gets the job.
You're welcome to explain that! I set up a scenario and asked a question.

It goes further than that, however. If the lightskinned individual is more qualified, the dark skinned individual is still generally going to get the job for the same reasons.
Now you're changing the rules.

The light skinned individual must be far enough beyond the dark skinned individual, as far as qualifications, to overcome, at least in the employers eye, everything you just said.
Where did I even imply that all other things being equal I would condone selecting a lesser qualified individual?

And as far as being equal in every way, that will almost never happen.
Ok, so you're saying people are not equal; got it.
 

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BusaDave said:
You're welcome to explain that! I set up a scenario and asked a question.
And I gave the real world answer to that question. You implied based on this statement
BusaDave said:
You are aware that the world you live in has created an economic disparity against dark-skinned people and these same people are under represented in your company. Would you or would you not take that into consideration? If not, how would you decide? Flip a coin? Have them arm wrestle? How about women versus men?
that the dark skinned individual should be chosen, becuase the color of his skin is the only tie breaker. If that was not what you meant, then I apologize. I misunderstood.

BusaDave said:
Now you're changing the rules.
No, I did not change any rules. Not only did I answer your question, I gave a more extreme example.

BusaDave said:
Where did I even imply that all other things being equal I would condone selecting a lesser qualified individual?
I did not say that you did. I said that that is the way that it is today.

BusaDave said:
Ok, so you're saying people are not equal; got it.
That is not how I meant that statement, so I will elaborate. No two people are clones of eachother. There are always some minor differences, which would make one person more suitable for a position than another, wheither it be qualifications or a personality more suited to the work environment than another, or any other number of things.

I guess a better way to word my statement would be "Two people are almost never completely equally qualified for the same position."
 

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license2ill said:
Not sure where you are geting the acceptance of discrimination from.
Most likely from you defending the mayor of New Orleans for making racist statements.
 

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EEfz6 said:
Most likely from you defending the mayor of New Orleans for making racist statements.
Yeah, I don't see any discrimination happening as a result of his comments. Of course, if you consdider the welath of the community prior to the dmolition of it, I'm guessing the Whites in NO have a real fear to contend with. Racism happens fro mteh top down, it isn't somethign a minority class is capable of. The problem is when talking aobut this stuff, I have to dip into uneduicated arguments that are forever trappedwithin ignorance as a justification for their merit, which makes it very hard to break out of all in one post or thread. I'd suggest taking an introductory Sociology class, poly sci class, communication class, or any other social science class to get a better grasp of even the most complex ideas that Dave has presented. You'll be glad you did.
 

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license2ill said:
Yeah, I don't see any discrimination happening as a result of his comments. Of course, if you consdider the welath of the community prior to the dmolition of it, I'm guessing the Whites in NO have a real fear to contend with. Racism happens fro mteh top down, it isn't somethign a minority class is capable of. The problem is when talking aobut this stuff, I have to dip into uneduicated arguments that are forever trappedwithin ignorance as a justification for their merit, which makes it very hard to break out of all in one post or thread. I'd suggest taking an introductory Sociology class, poly sci class, communication class, or any other social science class to get a better grasp of even the most complex ideas that Dave has presented. You'll be glad you did.
Yes. I would also try reading "My Traitor's Heart" by Rian Malan. It deals with apartheid in South Africa and made me understand something I didn't have a clear grasp on prior to completing the book. There is an inherent advantage in being white. One must be willing to give up their position of privelege before they are an equal with someone from the other group, in this case the other group is blacks in South Africa. If you maintain your position of privelege, and strive to protect it, you contribute to the continuing existence of racism in your society, however small that contribution may be.
 

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license2ill said:
Yeah, I don't see any discrimination happening as a result of his comments. Of course, if you consdider the welath of the community prior to the dmolition of it, I'm guessing the Whites in NO have a real fear to contend with. Racism happens fro mteh top down, it isn't somethign a minority class is capable of. The problem is when talking aobut this stuff, I have to dip into uneduicated arguments that are forever trappedwithin ignorance as a justification for their merit, which makes it very hard to break out of all in one post or thread. I'd suggest taking an introductory Sociology class, poly sci class, communication class, or any other social science class to get a better grasp of even the most complex ideas that Dave has presented. You'll be glad you did.
You know, for someone who BITCHED about how all of these "hate filled" threads were brought up on MLK day, and how you were above all that, you spend a shit load of time keeping them at the top of the list.
 
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