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The cake is a lie
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/10/16/calgary-airdrie-woman-website-comment.html

Negative Amanda Todd post costs man his job

A man who posted negative comments about the death of Amanda Todd was fired from his job after an Airdrie, Alta., woman alerted his employer.

Todd is the 15-year-old who killed herself last week after suffering years of bullying. Many online memorial sites have popped up in response to her death, and thousands of people have posted comments on them.

Christine Claveau was looking at a site when she saw what she thought was a particularly hateful anonymous post.

She said the comment read, "It's about time this bitch died."

Claveau said she tracked down the identity of the sender in Toronto and forwarded a note to his employer, the retail store Mr. Big and Tall.

The man was fired.

"We are deeply saddened by the loss of Amanda Todd," said Dave McGregor, president and CEO of Grafton-Fraser Inc. which operates the retail chain, in response to a query from CBC News.

"Out of respect for the family, I decided not to comment further on this situation beyond our statement that we took the action we felt to be appropriate. I will tell you that the individual in question is no longer employed with our company."

McGregor said the company's ethics are based on tolerance, respect and fair and honourable treatment of all individuals, internally, with customers and the population as a whole.

"We have zero tolerance for the mistreatment of others no matter what form it takes," he said. "We feel that the focus should remain on the issue at hand, which is bullying and how we work together to stop it. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Todd family."

Mixed reaction online
"I'm glad that they fired him and they took such a strong stance against bullying," said Claveau.

"But I just think that even having him reprimanded or having the embarrassment of his company knowing what he did is what I was aiming for, just to say … you know what you do in your pastime can affect who you are at work and your personal life too."

Claveau said she has received a lot of response to what happened — most of it positive but some of it negative.

"You can't please everybody, so I'm getting a lot of people saying I was the bully in the matter, or it wasn't right to contact his employer. So I'm getting a little bit of negative backlash."

Claveau said so-called "internet trolls" must be held accountable for what they say and do online.

"Trolls" are people who anonymously post negative comments on the internet to elicit a reaction.

She said she's more encouraged than ever now to monitor the internet and "out" those behind hateful statements.

Claveau has started a group of concerned moms who plan to continue alerting authorities to cyberbullying taking place online.
Thoughts on this? Personally I think that what he said was despicable, but I also think that Ms. Claveau stuck her nose into business she should just keep it out of. I also do not think that firing someone for a comment made on their own time and that has no import on their work is inappropriate. The only way I think that this reaction would be appropriate is if the person that made the comment is one of the bullies that contributed to the decision of the teenage girl in question to take her own life. A random person reading his comment and then complaining to his employer in order to get him fired is bullshit in my opinion.
 

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Seriously, that's fucked up. I hope he fucking DESTROYS that company.
 

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Everyone went too far, but give me a fucking break. Sounds like M.A.D.D is going internet now for bullying.
 

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Bullying a teen who killed herself, is seriously in bad taste, but I agree this guy has the right to say whatever the FUCK he wants. God people, get a life! Take that company down dude....
 

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If I were an employer, and I found out one of my employees was acting like an asshole and it was brought to the public's attention that he worked for me, I would want to have the option to fire him. At that point, keeping the employee employed reflects poorly on the company, and could likely cost that company money. If an employeee is costing a company money, why shouldn't they be allowed to fire him or her?

This isn't a free speech issue. It's a private company that is firing him; it's not the government who is intervening.

One must draw the 'free speech' line somewhere, as far as employment is concerned, if you are taking the position that what the company did was wrong. As an extreme example, an employee can't walk into work and call his boss a 'fucking asshole' and expect his job to be protected by free speech. He is free to call his boss names without legal repercussions. However, he is not free to say that without any repercussions. Of course in this obvious example, the boss would be just in firing him. Now, we could draw the line at after work hours, right? Well, what if the employee calls his boss a 'fucking asshole' as they leave, after they're both clocked out and off of work premises? At what point do you draw the line?
 

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the joke is in your hand
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If I were an employer, and I found out one of my employees was acting like an asshole and it was brought to the public's attention that he worked for me, I would want to have the option to fire him. At that point, keeping the employee employed reflects poorly on the company, and could likely cost that company money. If an employeee is costing a company money, why shouldn't they be allowed to fire him or her?

This isn't a free speech issue. It's a private company that is firing him; it's not the government who is intervening.

One must draw the 'free speech' line somewhere, as far as employment is concerned, if you are taking the position that what the company did was wrong. As an extreme example, an employee can't walk into work and call his boss a 'fucking asshole' and expect his job to be protected by free speech. He is free to call his boss names without legal repercussions. However, he is not free to say that without any repercussions. Of course in this obvious example, the boss would be just in firing him. Now, we could draw the line at after work hours, right? Well, what if the employee calls his boss a 'fucking asshole' as they leave, after they're both clocked out and off of work premises? At what point do you draw the line?
no you can't draw lines of free speech somewhere. morally yes but what good is having a constitution if you don't stick to it?
if you take that away why not give up your guns, right to assemble, etc etc. you can't pick and choose what parts of the constitution you like to adopt or throw out.

it wasn't a nice thing to say but (if he was a us citizen) he has every right to say it.

but lets say he said that about a fellow co worker. ok, then he needs to be dealt with. you can't be having someone doing that to co-workers and I would agree.

and I'd like to end on this note, that's what he fucking gets for being on a social network site linking it to his real name. they're asinine and it's hilarious they used it to pop his dumb ass.
 

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no you can't draw lines of free speech somewhere. morally yes but what good is having a constitution if you don't stick to it?
if you take that away why not give up your guns, right to assemble, etc etc. you can't pick and choose what parts of the constitution you like to adopt or throw out.

it wasn't a nice thing to say but (if he was a us citizen) he has every right to say it.
You either misunderstood what I was getting at or maybe I didn't explain myself well.

He has every right to say it... But he must also face any consequences that come as a result of what he says. The constitution protects the right to free speech. It doesn't protect us from consequences of our actions.
 

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the joke is in your hand
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You either misunderstood what I was getting at or maybe I didn't explain myself well.

He has every right to say it... But he must also face any consequences that come as a result of what he says. The constitution protects the right to free speech. It doesn't protect us from consequences of our actions.
well lets just say would you think it's fair for your employer to come on this site and fire you based on your political views? or if you drove a bus and they seen your avatar and think of you as an agressive dangerous driver and must be fired?

if he did it at work or to a co-worker then fire his dumb ass. I would agree.

that company would have been under a lot of political pressure about the kid is why they let him go. but I still think it is an illegal move on their part. of course it is candada so...what evs.
 

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You either misunderstood what I was getting at or maybe I didn't explain myself well.

He has every right to say it... But he must also face any consequences that come as a result of what he says. The constitution protects the right to free speech. It doesn't protect us from consequences of our actions.
I agree with what you are saying on some level, but this guy said it on his own time not while at work.

Just about everyone who has been on the internet has made a comment that would at some point offend someone, I could get a lot of people I know fired just based on their FB comments about Sex, alcohol or drugs. Now that I think about it, he should go after the lady who turned him in to his employer, for defamation of character, the internet provides a certain level of anonymity (I like to think), but to seek someone out and make this person about his one comment only is just so wrong. Oh hell, let the judge decide...lol
 

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the joke is in your hand
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I agree with what you are saying on some level, but this guy said it on his own time not while at work.

Just about everyone who has been on the internet has made a comment that would at some point offend someone, I could get a lot of people I know fired just based on their FB comments about Sex, alcohol or drugs. Now that I think about it, he should go after the lady who turned him in to his employer, for defamation of character, the internet provides a certain level of anonymity (I like to think), but to seek someone out and make this person about his one comment only is just so wrong. Oh hell, let the judge decide...lol
wonder if it even fall under some kind of stalking. internet stalking has got a few people thrown in jail. I don't see how this is different.
 

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-Not defamation of character, because truth protects her from that.

-Internet stalking... possibly

-When directed at a coworker, unwelcome communication is considered harassment whether it's on the clock or off the clock, at work or at the grocery store, etc...

-Max... while I do agree with you to an extent, the way the story reads gives me the impression that the Company themselves are what brought this to the public arena... therefore I disagree that "he was a bad reflection of our company" is a valid argument. The company is definitely at risk of a lawsuit over this, they should have given some bullshit reason for firing him.
 

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but lets say he said that about a fellow co worker. ok, then he needs to be dealt with. you can't be having someone doing that to co-workers and I would agree.
Ah ha, but you see you are drawing a line on free speech. You have taken the position that the company constitutionally can't fire him for what he says because it's protected by free speech (which is a misunderstanding of the first amendment). However, you then go on to put a stipulation on that... Which means you are drawing a line on free speech, as you understand it.
 

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The cake is a lie
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
wonder if it even fall under some kind of stalking. internet stalking has got a few people thrown in jail. I don't see how this is different.
The story of the girl committing suicide has gone international; I don't see how it could be stalking making a (bad taste) comment about something that is in the public eye.

I think the internet stalking claim could be better attributed to the woman that went out of her way to find out who this guy was, find out where he worked, and contacted his boss to get him fired. That's way more over-the-line IMO.

I hope that Claveau loses her job and ability to support her family over this, just as she has done her best to do to this guy.
 

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the joke is in your hand
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Ah ha, but you see you are drawing a line on free speech. You have taken the position that the company constitutionally can't fire him for what he says because it's protected by free speech (which is a misunderstanding of the first amendment). However, you then go on to put a stipulation on that... Which means you are drawing a line on free speech, as you understand it.
I'm not drawing a line outside of his employment on his constitutional rights. which is where his employer has no grounds to stand on.
it would be like firing him because he's gay.
but if he kept touching your ass at work all day it's a different story.

he didn't say it to a co-worker at work and he didn't post it at work on company time. he can't be fired in my eyes. case closed.
 

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I'm not drawing a line outside of his employment on his constitutional rights. which is where his employer has no grounds to stand on.
it would be like firing him because he's gay.
but if he kept touching your ass at work all day it's a different story.

he didn't say it to a co-worker at work and he didn't post it at work on company time. he can't be fired in my eyes. case closed.
You are drawing a line, but attempting to sidestep the fact that you are.

Your whole analogy to being gay and unwanted sexual touching isn't even close. We should just let that one go.

It sounds like you are drawing the line at work. What if he called his boss an asshole at a restaurant? Is that grounds for firing? Or what if he posted things about his boss on Facebook on his off time?

It should also be noted that we don't know what employment contract he signed. That may make this discussion a moot point.
 
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