[libertypilot]

So, I'm new to sportbikes but not new to riding. I have a few questions about transitioning from cruisers to sportbikes. I've been a cruiser guy for quite some time now. The most recent bike I bought is a Kawi Vulcan Mean Streak 1500. I love the thing so much I spent the first 3 nights I had it in the garage. Moving on - I've heard from several people who have ridden both sportbikes and cruisers that the "Meanie" is alot like a sportbike just b***** and heavier. Since I've been caught spooning with the meanie, I figured I'd check out sportbikes. No reason I can't have a cruiser and sportbike right? :cheers

First, I'm slowly getting the hang of the slang. Being no stranger to the internet, I managed to figure out what a "squid" is. Being new to the forum I don't want to insult anyone for the way they choose to ride. You're life is exactly that, you're life. I'm a big proponent of ATGATT but to each their own. Regardless, on with the questions if you'd be so kind:

Are sport bikes like cruisers in that as the displacement increases, the physical size of the bike does as well? Like do 6 footers fit on 250's and 750's basically the same? Can you tell about how many cc's a sportbike is by looking at it like you can with cruisers? Are they're typically lots of aftermarket options for sportbikes? How different is the riding position? You guys look like you're kina hunched over compared to a cruiser. Is it comfortable on long rides? Speakin' of which, do you guys tour? How about gear? I have a ton of gear that's really good for cruisers but I imagine I'd look like quit the anomaly riding around on a sportbike in my cruiser gear huh?

Ok, that's enough for now. Thanks for any feedback...

 

[beowulf2k]

Motorcycles are like automobiles-thats the best way to sum it up. You can own a truck and a Vette.
Sport bikes are NOT like cruisers. a 2000 and up 600cc will most likely crush the vulcan in every performance aspect except comfort and weight.
These days, light is right, so sport bikes are maintaining a light weight status as compared 15 years ago. The riding position is like have a helga on your back, but the fun factor makes you forget about it-just for awhile. Gear is gear, but bottle cap helmets will only save you if you land directly on top of your head-but then you would have a broken back. Search around the forums and get your feet wet.


Oh and thats more than a couple questions :twofinger welcome to SBN!

 

[Bpro]

To a certain extent a 1000 is larger than a 600 is larger than a 250, but in every case the manufacturers are trying to make the bikes as small as possible, so the difference is not that great to an "outsider".

The power characteristics are very different, even when comparing the 1000cc V-twins to their similar sized cousins in the cruiser world. The power in most cruisers hats very low in the RPM range and flattens out. Even the mean streak has this characteristic. Sport bikes, and even many sport touring bikes are tuned much softer down low wit a big midrange rush and more top end power than most cruisers would ever need or use.

Depending of which machine you choose however this can change. My GSXR600 is tiny, somewhat aggressive ergos making anything under 40mph uncomfortable and taking off from a light on an upgrade is an exercise in clutch and throttle finesse. This was not the case on a 650 cruiser I just tuned up.
However the FJR1300 currently in the garage is very comfortable cruising around and has no low RPM torque issues. To me its a pig on the back roads, but it will still out handle any cruiser I have ever had the pleasure to ride.


For me the biggest difference in cruisers and sporting bikes (both sport and Sport/tour) is that on a cruiser you tend to sit in the seat, feet forward, and steer primarily with the bars. On a sporting bike your feet are directly below your hips and take a much more active role in controlling the machine. Properly riding a sport bike involves carrying a large portion of your weight with your legs, something not possible with most cruisers. This is why many long tome cruiser riders often feel that sportbikes are very top heavy and flighty. Conversely most sportbike guys feel that cruisers handle like tanks.

Different techniques for different machines.

Most of the gear will cross over but sport riders tend toward more substantial gear. Helmets are often the most glaring difference, but the other items also differ. Sport jackets tend to be cut with longer sleeves, the shoulders rotated forward, and are often uncomfortable when hangin out at bike night.

Pants are another area that is not as obvious. Jeans and traditional leather pant often bunch up uncomfortably behind the knees. this is especially so for true sportbikes like the R6 or GSXR. The pants designed for this group are cut less casual to prevent the problem.

Enjoy and take the time to live in both worlds. Each has alot to offer.

(my last cruiser was a '78 XLCR1000)

 

[enos]

I actually find cruisers very uncomfortable. The riding position with the pegs and bars both very forward basically turn my body into a parachute. It also makes it natural for my back to form a bow shape, so after about 50 miles my back is killing me. Ironically, a sporty bike (maybe not the torture rack ones) keeps my back straight and only my neck starts to bother me by the 5th or 6th day.

 

[BumbleBeez]

Are sport bikes like cruisers in that as the displacement increases, the physical size of the bike does as well? Like do 6 footers fit on 250's and 750's basically the same? Can you tell about how many cc's a sportbike is by looking at it like you can with cruisers?

Personally, I don't think it's as pronounced as cruisers. 250s are noticably smaller than 1300s, and if they are all lined up side by side, yes, you can see the difference even in the 600-1000cc range. But if you are looking at one alone in traffic, sometimes 600/750/1000 can be tough (this may be just me though).

Are they're typically lots of aftermarket options for sportbikes?

It's insane how much stuff I can buy for the R6! tail kits, grip, levers, rear-sets, mirrors, cowls, performance parts ... Mmmmmmm :boink

How different is the riding position? You guys look like you're kina hunched over compared to a cruiser. Is it comfortable on long rides?

A lot different. I took the 1500 Vulcan to the shop Sat for inspection after not having been on it in quite some time, and when I went to put my feet up I actually had to think about where to put them! When I first got the R6, I was killing my wrists, until someone pointed out I was an idiot and doing it wrong!! (yes, in those exact words!) Still, I did 12 hours on that thing last summer. I will never do 12 hours in a day on it again. (It is, however, noticeably warmer to ride in the winter!)

The difference is night and day between the cruiser and the sportbike, and I do tend to spend the vast majority of my time on the R6, but there's room enough in the sport for you to enjoy both (as long as there is room enough in the garage)!!!

 

[libertypilot]

Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate it. I'm starting to pick up some good stuff.

Ok, so evidently "aggressive" is the position of the rider on the sport bike. I assume the more uhm, 'down' I guess, you are on the bike the more 'aggressive' the position is? Sounds right.

So, I'm not the most incompetant cruiser rider as I've been doing it for several years now. I know the controls are the same just in very different places. Do you know if any riding skill can be translated from cruisers to sportbikes? Gotta be some right? I ask because I really don't want to start with a 250 and get tired of it in 4 months and have to sell it straight away. I also don't want a 1000 and get bucked off the thing as soon as I get it. As I've been riding for several years and also own a Vulcan 750 (that has a sport bike engine) do you think I'd be ok with something like a 500? Is it possible to test ride a 250, a 500, and maybe a 600 all in one day at a stealership? Is there anything between a 250 and a 500 in the sportbike world?

 

[BumbleBeez]

A lot of riding skill gets translated from one to the other. I had never even dreamed I'd be a sportbike rider when I started riding! I rode 500,600,900,1100 and 1500 cruisers over the years. I am a better rider because of it, and I was way more prepared for the R6 when I bought it.

First notice biggest difference? BRAKES! SS brakes are crazy! I rode the R6 only for about 6 months after I bought it, and when I got back on my little 550cc cruiser, and came to the end of my street, I swear, I didn't think I was gonna stop!!

Throttle. You know how a whole handful of throttle on your Kaw makes her growl and sets you back on the seat a bit? Ya? Try not to do that on a SS. (The clouds are really pretty though!!!) Front end is a LOT lighter too. I find headshake is more likely on the sportbike than on the cruisers. If your sportbike doesn't come with one, get a stabilizer.

Slow speeds. Your Kaw is a lot more stable in slow turn/parking lot situations. You prolly get the better end of this than I do, I am (super) short ... so I can not 'duck walk' the 6 very well, so I have to be really careful. But the center of gravity is a lot higher on SS's. Just be aware.

Some dealerships will let you test ride, some won't. I never understood a place that won't. I personally will not buy a bike I can not ride first. Ask around. As far as size, in my opinion, you've been riding a few years? The 250 and 500 might be a bit, um, less than you would hope.

Are you looking at RR style bikes? Or tourers? Or more standard sport (FZ or ZZR) types?

 

[SamIAm_1021]

Ya, the term sportbike is kind of vague. An Sv650 is a much diferent ride than say a gsx-r 600. A Kawasaki concours 14 much diferent than a zx-14.

 

[S3aturnR]

Is it possible to test ride a 250, a 500, and maybe a 600 all in one day at a stealership?

dude, if you can talk ANY stealership into letting you test ride ANY sport bike, you've accomplished a small miracle. let me know which one you went to and i will test ride one, too. i've heard of them allowing test rides on cruisers and touring bikes, but never on the sports...


s3aturnr

 

[YZFHEFF]

Do you know if any riding skill can be translated from cruisers to sportbikes? Gotta be some right?

Countersteering and leaning to change direction are about the only two I can come up with. Braking is vastly different with more emphasis being put on the rear with cruisers, the power is usually less with more torque, and talk about low-speed lack of maneuverability depending on how raked out they are.

I actually find cruisers very uncomfortable. The riding position with the pegs and bars both very forward basically turn my body into a parachute. It also makes it natural for my back to form a bow shape, so after about 50 miles my back is killing me. Ironically, a sporty bike (maybe not the torture rack ones) keeps my back straight and only my neck starts to bother me by the 5th or 6th day.

I second this notion. I only rode one ('07 Shadow 750 Spirit) for about 10 miles the other day and I could feel something going on with my back afterward. Along with those fat grips and not finding footpegs below me where they should be after every stop, I found the whole experience rather foreign, almost like a reduction in control. I stepped back on my CBR for the ride home and it was amazing how smooth everything was and how in control of the machine I was again. Not to mention having some good brakes again.

Nothing wrong with them, just different. A hell of a lot more relaxed actually. I wouldn't mind having one with the right ergos for me in the garage. I've really had a crush on the Vmax ever since it came out when I was in high school, I wouldn't mind picking one of those up.

I've toured my CBR recently and it really wasn't bad at all. SF to SEA in one shot was really no big deal.

Cheers :beer

 

[PhilB]

Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate it. I'm starting to pick up some good stuff.

Ok, so evidently "aggressive" is the position of the rider on the sport bike. I assume the more uhm, 'down' I guess, you are on the bike the more 'aggressive' the position is? Sounds right.

So, I'm not the most incompetant cruiser rider as I've been doing it for several years now. I know the controls are the same just in very different places. Do you know if any riding skill can be translated from cruisers to sportbikes? Gotta be some right? I ask because I really don't want to start with a 250 and get tired of it in 4 months and have to sell it straight away. I also don't want a 1000 and get bucked off the thing as soon as I get it. As I've been riding for several years and also own a Vulcan 750 (that has a sport bike engine) do you think I'd be ok with something like a 500? Is it possible to test ride a 250, a 500, and maybe a 600 all in one day at a stealership? Is there anything between a 250 and a 500 in the sportbike world?

The basic riding skills do translate, and of course the roadsmanship skills (predicting traffic, judging road surfaces, etc.) translate. There isn't much of anything these days between a 250 and a 500, which I think is a bad thing. But with your experience, I think a small bike to start isn't as necessary. An SV650 would be a good choice; it's a good bike, decently fast, yet has a powerband more like you're used to.

The main thing is to adjust your expectations to the new capabilities.

Braking is very different; just grabbing a handful will get you locked up wheels and falling down; you have to modulate your brakes more and practice. Also, weight transfer is more, so compared to a cruiser you use your front brakes more and the rear brake is a lot less useful, especially in hard stops.

Cornering, you will have WAY more clearance and lean ability. And the bike will respond much more quickly to your inputs.

Power curve is very different, with less torque off the line, but a lot more power up top. Especially if you get a four-cyl bike. My previous gf had gotten a Honda CBR600. I had (still have) a Ducati Monster, and her previous bike had been a BMW R65. We were both puzzled by the Honda, it seemed to have no guts at all and to run poorly. Until we realized that we were shifting by sound. Our other bikes were both best at about 6000 rpm; with twice as many cylinders, the Honda then sounded the same at 3000 rpm as our bikes do at 6000. But the Honda at 3000 rpm was barely off of idle. It didn't pull right until 4000 rpm, woke up at about 8000 rpm, and peaked at 12000 rpm -- which was twice as high, and sounded four times as high, as what we were used to. (And once she'd ridden that bike for a while and got used to its sound, the next time she rode my Duc, she got on the freeway in second gear.)

So you can do it, just take your time and get used to the different inputs and responses.

dude, if you can talk ANY stealership into letting you test ride ANY sport bike, you've accomplished a small miracle. let me know which one you went to and i will test ride one, too. i've heard of them allowing test rides on cruisers and touring bikes, but never on the sports...

s3aturnr

It's very hard to get a test ride on a Japanese sportbike, and I have not been successful at that yet. But everyone else is more open. In the last couple years, I've test ridden Ducatis, MotoGuzzis, BMWs, Aprilias, KTMs, Buells, and Harleys. I'm still trying to get test rides on an MV Agusta, a Benelli, and some Triumphs.

PhilB

 

[libertypilot]

Are you looking at RR style bikes? Or tourers? Or more standard sport (FZ or ZZR) types?

Uhhh, good question. The only thing I can say for sure is, definitely not a tourer. I'll have to research what the others are and the differences between them. I don't know what "RR style" is or "FZ" or "ZZR" for that matter. Finding out shouldn't be a huge task though. Let me hit up Craigs List for a few days and see what I can learn there. Thanks fellas...

 

[MJ939]

ZZR refers to a ZZR600. It is the Kawasaki ZX6R from 2002 (and a few years before that), rereleased in 2005-2008 as a ZZR600. Same exact parts with different colors and a couple non-important updates like the way the fairing connects to the frame.

Basically, you have your big 4 Japanese manufacturers, and each one offers a bike in different categories.

You have 649 cc V-twin or parallel twin sportbikes with a more upright riding position, less-sensitive throttle, and slightly calmer power band (good low end torque, less high end scream). They might have redlines of up to 11,000ish rpm and have a top speed of 130-140 mph. This is what people refer to as a 650. They are easier to learn on.
Examples:
-Suzuki SV650
-Kawasaki Ninja 650R

Most Japanese 250s and 500s are similar (2 cylinder, low-end powerband, upright riding position) with smaller engines.

SuzukiSV1000 is similar, with a 1000cc engine.


Then there are inline 4 cylinder race-oriented machines, this is what people are talking about when they're referring to a 600, 750, or 1000 cc sportbike. You will hear them referred to as SS (supersports), I4s, RRs (race replicas), etc. These bikes will rev up much more quickly due to more sensitive throttles, and the throttle can be harder to control, due to the fact that you're more leaned-over and, especially when braking or as a new rider that's "doing it wrong," you'll put much more weight on the bars. Typical redlines are 14,000-16,000 RPM with top speeds of 160 mph (600) and 180 mph (1000).

600:
-Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R
-Honda CBR600RR
-Yamaha YZF-R6 (just referred to as an R6 most of the time)
-Suzuki GSX-R 600

750:
-Suzuki GSX-R 750

1000:
-Kawasaki Ninja ZX10R
-Honda CBR1000RR
-Yamaha YZF-R1
-Suzuki GSX-R 1000


The Kawasaki ZZR600, Yamaha R6s, and Honda CBR600F4 or F3 or F4i are older or detuned versions of the race-oriented supersports. They are not tame, but they're slightly more upright and less powerful than the newer ones. (Nowhere near as upright as a 650, which in turn is nowhere near as upright as a cruiser.) They're NOT sport-tourers, although they do get portrayed that way sometimes. The Yamaha FZ6R is kinda like this... a 4-cylinder that's a little less powerful than a typical 600, although it's also heavier (470 lb vs. 370 lb)... although I admit I don't know that much about them. Hopefully I'm not mischaracterizing it.

Then of course you have Ducati, Triumph, Buell, Aprilia, etc, which are a little bit harder to put into these simple categories.

Any corrections, anyone?

 

[SamIAm_1021]

^ that was a pretty good write up. You left out the big boys tho Probably not the best option for the new to sportbikes guy tho.

 

[libertypilot]

Wow, that's pretty much everything i hoped to learn from Craig's, thanks man. I'm still gonna hit up Craig's somethin' feirce but thanks for the categorization - that's a great place to start. Ok before I bail on this thread and finally leave you guys alone, how about reliability? Does one of the big 4 Japanese companies have a better rep than another concerning the maintenance and longevity of these bikes? For example - I know for cruisers, shaft drivin' is way lower maintenance than chain driven and liquid cooled is way better for your engine than just air cooled. Kawi's are known for having both a drive shaft and being liquid cooled (not to meniton ACCT's and self adjusting carbs) so they have a really good rep for being wicked low maintenance. Anything like that in the sportbike world?

 

[PhilB]

Wow, that's pretty much everything i hoped to learn from Craig's, thanks man. I'm still gonna hit up Craig's somethin' feirce but thanks for the categorization - that's a great place to start. Ok before I bail on this thread and finally leave you guys alone, how about reliability? Does one of the big 4 Japanese companies have a better rep than another concerning the maintenance and longevity of these bikes? For example - I know for cruisers, shaft drivin' is way lower maintenance than chain driven and liquid cooled is way better for your engine than just air cooled. Kawi's are known for having both a drive shaft and being liquid cooled (not to meniton ACCT's and self adjusting carbs) so they have a really good rep for being wicked low maintenance. Anything like that in the sportbike world?

They're all very good. I tend to trust Honda quality and longevity a bit more than the rest, but also tend to keep my bikes for a REALLY long time. For the average guy, buy the one that sparks you best.

European bikes do tend to have a bit higher maintenance, with Ducati at the top of the list due to their unique valvetrain, but even those aren't really that big a deal.

There are very few shaft drive sportbikes, and none at the sharp end of the market. It's pretty much all chain, with Buell standing out by using a belt. So there will be some maintenance there. Most sportbikes, and all at the sharp end of the market, are liquid-cooled. Most of them are fuel-injected these days. Some have ABS. It's a higher level of tech than you are probably used to.

PhilB

 

[Nightfall]

You can't forget about the standards and muscle bikes, both of which are more popular everywhere else in the world sadly enough and for the most part don't sell as much in the states.

You have Standards and Sport-Standards such as:

Suzuki GSF Bandit series, which sadly in the U.S. are now only available as 1250cc they can be bought half faired or naked. They also have the Gladius and SV650S, also the V-Strom. And don't forget the TU250!!!

You have the Yamaha FZ series bikes which are 600cc and 1000cc.

Triumph has the Speed Triple and Street Triple (I think they still make both, I don't know much about European bikes)

Ducati has the Monster series which range from 695cc to roughly 1000cc.

And with Kawasaki you have the ER6-N, the Ninja 650R, and the Versys (All parallel twins.)

The easiest way to think of a standard or sport standard is that they are as close as you get to the "tea sipper" riding position that most Japanese bikes had in the 60's and 70's.


And of course you have your muscle bikes :banana:

Kawasaki use to make the ZRX1200 which is the bike I strive to have one day. But now they make the Z1000.

Suzuki has the B-King .... yeah, that's all I have to say lol

Yamaha has the .... VMAX and the MT01.

There are more out there, I just didn't feel like listing all of them.

What you need to know is this, a standard bike is one you sit more upright on and these bikes almost always have actuall handlebars instead of sportbike clip-ons.

Muscle bikes are generally the same as the standards but with more weight, and more power and sometimes lower handlebars or clip-ons followed by slightly more agressive seating.

 

[Bpro]

Wow, that's pretty much everything i hoped to learn from Craig's, thanks man. I'm still gonna hit up Craig's somethin' feirce but thanks for the categorization - that's a great place to start. Ok before I bail on this thread and finally leave you guys alone, how about reliability? Does one of the big 4 Japanese companies have a better rep than another concerning the maintenance and longevity of these bikes? For example - I know for cruisers, shaft drivin' is way lower maintenance than chain driven and liquid cooled is way better for your engine than just air cooled. Kawi's are known for having both a drive shaft and being liquid cooled (not to meniton ACCT's and self adjusting carbs) so they have a really good rep for being wicked low maintenance. Anything like that in the sportbike world?

With the big 4 reliability is a non issue. I help wrench for a few local racers who are racing the following:
09 gsxr600
04 gsxr600
09 R6
04 R6
07 Triumph 675
06 SV650

and in the past fielded bikes such as the first and second gen R6, 98-01 ZX6r, 05 ZX6R, CBR600F4I, first gen SV650, EX500, GS500, GSXR750 (98).

From what I have seen Kawasakis are very easy to work on. as is to a slightly lesser degree the suzuki and yamaha. As a race bike the F4I was a pain in the ass, but a rock solid machine (prior to the broken rod and fire...)

If I were in the market I would look real close at any GSXR750 2001 to present. In 2001 they finally got the FI working well and every model has been a great machine. with a custom seat and a set of bar risers I wouldn't be afraid to put in several back to back 500 mile days traveling on the 750.

My old YZF600 has been a warhorse. I purchased it as a non runner with 9,000 miles about 5 years ago and proceeded to beat the hell out of it. The bike now has 60,000+ miles of primarily twisty backroad and trackday miles. Next year I even plan to race the old bike in WERA vintage events. I want to see what the old bike can take.

 

[coupe]

Your gonna crap your pants the first time you ride a sport bike. I came from cruisers and man-o-man sportbikes are insane. You will look at your mean streak and laugh at its ballesness lol

 

[YZFHEFF]

ballesness

Huh?

True enough though. My first time on a modern liter bike was an eye opener for me for sure. Hang the fuck on son. Trying to utilize the full rev-range in the lower gears just causes the front to claw for the sky no matter how much you try to get up on it.

It's all about potential for me. I love the fact that the beast between my legs is capable of such phenomenal feats. The motorcycle is fun too.