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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im just wondering if its good to lean the bike or adjust your body position on the bike? just curious because I saw comments saying that scraping the pegs is a sign of bad technique or something like that , but if its bad then why do the professionals do it ? or do they ? idk just a beginner curious about this lol
 

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As a newb, if you scrape pegs, your body position is all messed up, and you're probably about to have a lowside.

Good example


Bad example


btw, I chose street as a good example to better compare to the bad example.
 

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While I agree with the first post, I believe it seems as if you are telling the OP that leaning is bad

OP, You HAVE TO "counter steer" the bike to turn it, nothing else works. When you counter steer the bike leans over as a result and turns. You do not HAVE to move your body around at low speed.

But at higher speeds in sharper turns you want to get your inside elbow below the tank line which In turn causes your upper body to lower to the inside of the bike. This movement of your weight to a lower and inside position will lower the bikes center of gravity and will assist the bike in
turning quicker.

Forget about actually leaning part of your body off for now though until you know what your doing.

Search Twist of the Wrist 2 on YouTube. It's a 1hr 30min video but will explain everything you need to know about leaning the bike and body position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ok...from what i can tell in the 2nd video the guy doesn't have proper form down when he is leaning the bike his body position is horrible so if he were to turn at faster speeds he would "scrape pegs" the wrong way like you mentioned . but if you do it right like the first video where his body position is good and he has proper form then its still possible to scrape pegs but you have to be pushing the bike closer to its limits ?


so in essence scraping pegs can be good and bad but if its bad technique then it happens sooner because the bike is being leaned when it really shouldnt. and when it happens with good technique it wont happen unless your at extreme speeds which would be why the professionals still do it ?
 

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Default response because its the truth:

Get to an instructional trackday when you are financially able to and sign up for their 'Track School'. Guaranteed you will learn more about building the proper base skill set for riding a motorcycle proficiently in that one day than you will in your first season on public roads.

-Christian
 

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I second the track school or instructional trackday.

With proper body positioning hanging off, you can actually go faster and use less of the contact patch of the tire (bike not leaned as much, ie more traction) as opposed to not hanging off the bike and just leaning the bike which uses more of the tire, more contact patch and is therefore easier to go over the limit. Make sense?
 

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its still possible to scrape pegs [with good form] but you have to be pushing the bike closer to its limits
Which is why I said "As a newb, if you scrape, you're doing it wrong"

Ain't no newb going to have good form AND scrape pegs. Picture in your mind the rider able to do that.....they have some experience.
 

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I think if you're scrapping pegs, it's time to get some formal instruction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
ok cool i think i got it now , i appreciate all the answers , i plan on getting a 250r :meangreen lol in the future and making sure i learn everything right...... again thanks for all the input and answers.
 

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This is interesting because it can be related to buying smaller bikes as well.

My first bike was a Ninja 250 and I thought I was riding like a pro until a friend took pictures of me going around a corner one day. I realized I was sitting up relatively straight and pushing the bike underneath me.

This tactic works on dirtbikes (which is where the habit came from) and it also 'worked' on the 250 with its light weight and high bars. When I switched up to a 600 this riding style no longer worked for multiple reasons, and caused a lot of scary moments.

First off, proper sportbike body position requires you to lean in and forward on turns in order to maintain the ability to countersteer in further. When your inside arm is tense or straight due to poor upright position, you find that you cannot increase lean mid-corner because you cannot push on the inside grip. This is largely a function of the low clip-ons on a sportbike....on a bike with higher bars you can get away with more before you discover this limitation, even though it always exists on any bike. On an unfamiliar decreasing radius turn, finding where this limitation of poor positioning exists usually results in damage to your undergarments and confidence.

Secondly, the heavier the bike, the more effort it takes to control it, especially in switchbacks or fast transitions. Piece by piece, figuring out and focusing on seating position, arm position and range of motion, bar weighting, peg weighting and using your lower body (to properly grip (no waggin legs!)) results in eureka moments that add confidence and competence.

At low speed, say at intersections or K/U turns, turning the bike 'under' you can sometimes be the best method. At speeds above 25 mph or so, where countersteering starts to take effect, leaning the body with or ahead of the bike into a turn is faster AND safer. The more you use your body and the less you use the bike to lean, the more margin and traction available. The margin has speed and safety benefits but also increases your confidence on the road immensely. On the road your brain and its survival instinct likes to have options to change lines....

Barring a track day (have not had my first yet) read, read, read books and watch videos like those from Keith Code and Lee Parks. Dirt experience is a major plus in some ways and further increases your margin and confidence on the road, but different bikes and different modes of riding do not always translate positionally onto a sportbike. This is one reason they are "unforgiving"...its not only power but technique.

Even braking on a sportbike effectively, using the full capability of its "better" braking characteristics compared to other bikes, is largely a function of technique and positioning.

So in other words, scraping pegs on the street is either a sign of very high competency or the first line of a knock-knock joke that ends with a punchline of "SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH BOOOOOOOOOOOOM".
 

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It's not leaning that scares me, it is the road surface. Public roads can be unpredictable with fine sand or oily spots in corners, leaves, frost, etc. On clean dry quality pavement with warmed up tires of course you can lean to the edges of the tires until the peg feelers touch but I would only trust a race-track for doing that often cos they have large run-out areas if you slide. A trashed bike and broken bones are expensive and painful so best to ride a bit on the conservative side on public roads IMO. Scanning the road surface well ahead should be an automatic habit as you ride.
 

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Look for Total Control classes in lieu of a track day. Its a step between MSF courses and track instruction. Total control will give you all of the tools you need to be succesful on the track AND street.
 

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For what it's worth, there have been some incredibly fast riders that had miserable body position. But like all racers, they also threw it down the track more than most of us want to.

 

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ok...from what i can tell in the 2nd video the guy doesn't have proper form down when he is leaning the bike his body position is horrible so if he were to turn at faster speeds he would "scrape pegs" the wrong way like you mentioned . but if you do it right like the first video where his body position is good and he has proper form then its still possible to scrape pegs but you have to be pushing the bike closer to its limits ?

so in essence scraping pegs can be good and bad but if its bad technique then it happens sooner because the bike is being leaned when it really shouldnt. and when it happens with good technique it wont happen unless your at extreme speeds which would be why the professionals still do it ?
Yes. You have grasped the basic idea.

PhilB
 
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