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How to get KBB price for bike?

4K views 36 replies 15 participants last post by  MeinGlänzendMotorrad 
#1 ·
So there is a Ninja 650r 2012 that has low miles, like 1200 miles and the dealer wants $6400, and probably with all the fees on top.

The KBB says the 2012 Ninja 650r are valued at around $5000 in good condition. So would good condition mean like low miles? Because I have a feeling if I said $5000 is the KBB price, they'll come back at me and say "it has low miles and is still in new condition". Like if their new condition is better than good condition according to KBB standards. So with the $5000 KBB in mind, should I start lower like $4-4.5k so that going up to $5000 seems like a better deal?

I have looked at reviews at the place and some people say the guy I talked to is difficult to deal with, but some people walked away getting a fair deal or the price they wanted to pay.

But I have enough to pay them cash if being able to pay it off right away is an incentive for them to give me a better deal. Well, I'm gonna go test ride it during lunch time. I know it will be hard to get a good deal, or even a fair deal, but will try my best to get it for KBB price.
 
#11 ·
I went to the dealer today. They said if I bring in prices from other dealerships matching the price I want to offer them ($5000 range), they will work with me to get my business. Right now, they want $6400 and then after tax+fees come out to $6800. It's a bit much since a new one MSRP at $7500 and I heard a guy bought his new for near MSRP.
 
#10 ·
Cash is not a motivator as they often make more money on financing plans of sales than the sale itself. Negotiations will depend on price paid for the bike which you don't know. That's why some folks have easier or harder times haggling with the same salesman. Bottom line if you have a price out the door you want tell them and if they fuck around walk out. They will have your contact info. If you want to hardline a price it's easy to let them figure out if it's worth selling or not. As the buyer you have the leverage... until you decide this is THE bike and form an emotional attachment.

Since you need some hand holding on all these points though, just bring Dad.
 
#17 ·
Did you look on craigslist? You could probably find some for $3500-5000. Mileage isn't as important as maintenance. Find a well cared for bike and just buy it. Cash talks on craigslist. It doesn't do as much for a dealer.
 
#18 ·
Cash actually does the opposite for a dealership.

I just bought a truck this month, and the cash was not welcome They were trying in every way to try to make me sign ANY kind of loan, even for half or less of the purchase price.

Dealerships get a good extra coin when they get you to sign a 18 or 26% loan.
 
#20 ·
Yeah seems true, the guy on the phone kept talking about how I should take out a loan because it will improve my credit score. But then you have to pay interest on it which doesn't really save money. I thought if you walk in with a bag of cash or had a cashier's check with the amount ready to go (at the price you want), they'd get excited and wanna get the sale over with since they will have money in the pocket.

I talked about craigslist to them, they say things can go wrong like guy didn't register or I may have to pay fines/fees if the previous owner didn't keep up with payments.

But I have $5-6 grand ready to just throw down and get it over with. But hopefully it'll be closer to $5 grand. Saved up for over a yr.
 
#19 ·
Yep, when I bought my bike the lender refused to loan less than $6k. Then when I paid it off in a small fraction of the time they thought I would they immediately hit me up to get a credit card through them. My good finances cost them a lot of money.

If you have cash there's no reason to waste it at a dealer, they are almost always way overpriced, and definitely seem that way in this case.
 
#24 ·
I've found dealers very responsive to cash. I got the price of my used Aprilia down about $1000 when I pulled $7000 cash out of my pocket and said final offer. My guess is they can do it off the books and avoid taxes. Probably wouldn't work with a new bike though.

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#25 ·
So how do you exactly negotiate those dealer fees away? I know those are just there to put more money into the dealership's pocket, but does stating the obvious to them help or will that hurt?

How do you turn down dealer fees? By saying you don't wanna pay them or just putting down what you will pay? But the government fees are something that can't be avoided. So if I have my out the door price which includes all the government fees, do they just figure out how much they owe the government and only get whatever is left after the government gets its money?

Because I'm willing to just say I'll be willing to pay the KBB price and put the tax and other government fees on top of that price in order for them to still make their money and not turn it down. Just so they don't do those dealer fees. It's a brand new bike 2012 with 0 miles so should I just stay at their $5000 KBB price?
 
#27 ·
You give them a number, you say this is what I have to pay you, make it work, and let them figure out the math. If they don't give you what you want, say no thanks and walk out the door. Every time, they will stop you and make your numbers work. You just have to be firm.

Motorcycles other than Harleys are a buyer's market. They want to sell you that bike more than your want to buy it.

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#29 ·
Well, went to the dealership and started the negotiation. I have read everything I can, but doing it in person is the only way to get a feel for it.

First dealer:

2013 Ninja 650 (2400 miles) : $6400

2012 Ninja 650 (0 miles *New): $7400

Second dealer:

2012 Ninja 650 (1266 miles): $6000

With the first dealer, they advertised the new 2012 ninja 650 at $5000 on the website. But after their fees, they want $7400, which I thought was alot. And they would not cut a deal on that bike since it was brand new, but were willing to bring the price down on the used 2013 model and seems it's the only bike they'll be willing to negotiate lowering the price.

I have a $5000 mark in my mind, but I add 10% for tax/gov fees to the $5000 making it out to be $5500 so then I offer them $5500 thinking I will cover the taxes. The sales guy asked if I would buy it today if I got that price, and got denied by the final decider guy. Seems it's hard to get KBB price and dealerships say that KBB isn't an official guide.

When negotiating on the used 2013 Ninja 650, he wanted like $6700 out the door, then I just stalled saying no and took no action, then he brought it down to $6400. Still show I am not satisfied then gave up and stopped talking to me. So if they just get up, does that mean I reached their end or could I convince them at $5500 if I show up with a bag of cash at that amount ready to go? KBB says it's about $5100 for a 2013 ninja 650.

So trying to figure out a strategy on how I can get them closer to $5000. I assumed they still made money even at KBB, especially the dealer who advertised $5000 for the new 2012 bike. But after doing all the fees, it's like an extra $2000 which is like a 40% price increase on what looked like a sweet deal.

So what should I do, just bring a bag full of money or write a check that's ready to go at $5500?
 
#33 ·
First, KBB is not a very reliable guide to values in real life. Second, even when the KBB value is about right, it's one number that's supposed to fit all, whereas the actual market value still will vary a lot depending on location, what season it is, etc. Bikes are more expensive in CA in general, because (a) they stay in better shape due to less weather exposure and not having to be stored seasonally, and (b) a bike is just plain more valuable in a good climate, because you can ride it a lot more often.

Also, is the KBB number you are looking at private sale, or retail? Or does KBB even make the distinction. Some price guides give both private sale and retail prices -- the former being what you might expect to sell it for on the street, and closer to what a dealer might give you on trade-in, while the retail price (higher) is more like what you can expect to pay at a dealer. The dealer price is higher because (a) they have expenses to maintain a dealership where you can go shop bikes, and (b) you have some recourse if the bike is bad or if they misrepresent it in some way, and they have a reputation to protect and thus have some incentive to not just blow you off entirely.

If you want to pay $5K, then your best bet is to go to Craigslist and hope you get a good one (maybe on any one you seriously are considering, take it to a good shop and have them inspect it for about $50 to $100). If you don't want to go through that trouble and uncertainty, it'll cost a bit more to use a dealer.

PhilB
 
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