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Discussion Starter #1
I have a question about "clutch wheelie" on the FZ6. There is another thread about "power wheelies" at
http://forums.sportbikes.net/forums/showthread.php?t=270853&page=1&pp=15&highlight=wheelie+clutch

I thought I would add this other technique to a new thread, if you guys can give me some insight.

Disclaimer: First off, wheelies are dangerous and should be avoided. Makes sense. I would not advocate them and I'm sure others aren't either.

I have previously done "power wheelies" with general easy on the FZ6. I just ride along in 1st gear, rpm at 9,000, reverse blip the throttle (off/on) so as to bounce the front, then quickly whip open the throttle. Up it comes (1 or 2 feet) and off I go. I have read that this is the basic technique but have been caution that power wheelies are inherently more risky than clutch wheelies. (Non-linear torque curve with diminishing overturning moment can cause quick looping.) OK, so lets learn clutch wheelies.

I have read a good write up on clutch wheelies at:
http://www.stuntlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72156

He writes:

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How to clutch wheelies
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There are a couple different methods for clutching wheelies. I prefer the second method.

Method 1: First accelerate with the clutch engaged. Then, with the throttle still opened, pull in the clutch with one finger, to the point where the clutch disengages. With the engine still under throttle, quickly let the clutch back out as the tach is rising.

Method 2: Close the throttle, and then pull the clutch in all the way, with one finger. Then twist the throttle and dump the clutch.
When learning to clutch, only rev up the engine a little bit at first before letting out the clutch. This will give you the feel for clutching. Then gradually increase the rpm’s before dumping the clutch, until the front end jumps up close to the balance point. Reduce the throttle as the front end comes up to the balance point. If it comes up too far, gently push the rear brake to bring the bike back forward. When clutching second and third gear wheelies, the bike may need extra help, depending on what bike it is. If clutching alone doesn’t get the wheelie up, then bounce at the same time. This is done by pushing down on the bike (with your arms and legs) at the same time you open the throttle, and then leaning back slightly when dropping the clutch. I is not a good idea to pull on the bars. Pulling up on the bars may cause the wheelie to come up funny and wobble.

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What I have done is:

Method A
- Cover rear brake, in case needed.
- Sit upright with arms near straight (dont jerk bars).
- Roll along in 1st gear at 25 kph, at low rpms.
- Pull in (disengage) clutch, and rev engine up to 10,0000 rpm.
- Then, dump clutch (abruptly let go of lever), and add a bit more throttle.
- Suddenly, bike rises but only 6 inches - poor.

Method B
- Sames as Method A but ...
- Pull in (disengage) clutch, and rev engine up to 9,0000 rpm.
- Twitch the front brake to get the suspension to bounce.
- Simulaneously, as the front is bouncing up,
dump the clutch (abruptly let go of lever), and add a bit more throttle.
- Suddenly, bike rises up 2 feet - good.

My questions:
1) My implementation of Method A seems to earn feable results (6 inches). I suspect that I can get higher results if I rev'd it higher before dumping the clutch - but I don't for fear of looping it. Is more rev's what is needed?

2) My implementation of Method B is better results however it is far less consistent. The effectiveness depends on perfectly synchronizing the up bounce with the clutch dump. Is my method correct?

3) Is the FZ6 engine (stock sprockets) adequate to use Method A, or is Method B really needed?

4) For my clarification, is "dumping" the "sudden and abrupt release (let go) of the clutch lever"? This seems to be a very "uncontrolled" maneuver.

5) I don't know if it is possible with the FZ6, but I would prefer to have more control on the clutch lever: such as rapid but controlled release of clutch lever, where my two fingers stay wrapped around the lever even when releasing. Can this be done?
 

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TD Survivor
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yeah i tried the clutch wheelie once and wont do it again for a while. i was all ready for it covering the rear brake and anticipating the front comming up. pulled the cluch in and reved the engine, dont think it was that high in the rpm range then dumped the clutch. when it happened i about crapped my pants. wasnt expecting the front to come up so damn fast. feet came off the pegs and was riding a no footer for a few feet. let off the gas and down the front end went and hard. think i pulled the clutch in too much and just let it out too fast. guess the trick is to get the clutch where it just slips abit.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Bump.

Are there not any bikers having done clutch wheelie's on the FZ6 ???

(Where is Eric Putter with his photo?)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
redoliander,

When it comes up for me, it also comes of damn too fast.

I have seen a fair number of b***** (liter) bikes "power wheelie" it up from a standstill. When they do it, it is much slower and graceful. I guess that is the difference betw a 600 and 1000 cc bike.

I am trying to find a technique that can lift the bike much more gracefully (slower) than what I experienced in the clutch wheelie.
 

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It's all in a matter of weight positioning. Sit back, relax, let the throttle go and you'd be staring at the aky. No clutch dumping required.
 

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If you have the balls try Method 1 from the squid forum. If that doesn't work nothing will.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
segue00 said:
It's all in a matter of weight positioning. Sit back, relax, let the throttle go and you'd be staring at the aky. No clutch dumping required.
Are you referring to "power wheelie". I do this, but I have to get it first rolling along at some 10,000 rpm - with a correspondingly high speed.

What I am looking to do is a wheelie at low (25 kph) speed. As far as I know, at such slow speeds, only a clutch wheelie will work here.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
nig said:
If you have the balls try Method 1 from the squid forum. If that doesn't work nothing will.
In general, not really. If a bike doesn't have enough torque to succeed at Method 1, then usually Method 2 will work.

(Are you doing this with Method 1, when Method 2 doesn't work for you?)
 

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I can power mine up at like 20-25mph without even touching the clutch in sitdown postition. I have only clutched it up once came up way to fast I thought I was going over backwards oh I also hit the rev limiter in first which slamed the frontend down which I didn't like. I might try clutching it up in second as it should be smother lol, but I think it will power it up no prob in second gear with a little practice.
 

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I don't like clutching up. I prefer the power wheelie in first. If you hit the throttle in first around 9K RPMs, you'll come right up.
 

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skeleton said:
redoliander,

When it comes up for me, it also comes of damn too fast.

I have seen a fair number of b***** (liter) bikes "power wheelie" it up from a standstill. When they do it, it is much slower and graceful. I guess that is the difference betw a 600 and 1000 cc bike.

I am trying to find a technique that can lift the bike much more gracefully (slower) than what I experienced in the clutch wheelie.

Not so much the cc's but the huge rear sprocket and low air pressure on the tire.
 

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I can't help it-- I gotta do this....

What, Skel? You're having trouble getting it up?:lao

Ok, now that I got that out of my system....

The only way the front will go up is if you have enough torque applied solely to the rear wheel. You can use the clutch dump method to get the RPM high enough then dump, but that will be jerky. You can have the forks' rebound to assist the pull up, but that too is jerky.

With that as a premise, let's examine the bike.
Optimum torque happens at high RPM. Ergo, you must achieve high RPMs to lift the front without any assistance from the clutch or the fork using only the torque!

To achieve maximum torque at the lowest possible rate of speed, you must be in the lowest gear.

If you start on a roll in 1st gear, all you have to do is roll on the throttle and she'll come up.

Now if you need to lift her up at speed, say at 30 mph, (no, officer, I don't do it) Drop down the gear, roll on the throttle. No clutch, no fork assist. Torque happens at the high rpms so, just get there. As for being graceful at lifts up, hahaha-- you'll just have to do it often taking note of the throttle response. Have fun, and be "safe".
 

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LOL. Wheelies!
Done'em for years. The FZ6 motor is a bit small for power wheelies with no clutch.
For me theres drag race style, clutching it, and hitting second.
On the clutching it, I start by banging the clutch(in first) at 7000(aprrx) so your NOT at full power or torque. It will snap up fast or slow depending on how much power your into. I prefer to be slightly below mass power for a slower wheelie.

On the drag race style, your revving around 7000 leaned forward for a launch, gas it and slide the clutch out 25-50'(not full engagement), and then let it out all the way and then you'll do a slow rising wheelie under full acceleration.
On my FZ6 I have also found that revving to 8-9000 in first(not full accel.), and banging into second the front will come up nicely(but kinda quick).
IT ALL TAKES PRACTICE!!
I did it many times in my 20's and now in my 40's I am shaking off rust LOL.
And trying to keep my license.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
segue00:

It takes a man with real confidence to ask for help in getting it up. Come on now, how many of you guys have never had this problem?


azamora954:

I didn't realize those liter bikes were also tricked out (ie: sprockets). Well, that is just cheating now, isn't it? At least I now know that I am not in a level playing field.


Maxxacceleration:

I am guess that slipping the clutch for 25'-50' is a severe strain on the clutch plate. Yes/no? If so, I think I better avoid that method. I am not really looking to drag (speed), just pop up the front end, then gracefully drop it down as I roll away. I never want to do a 12-oclock (yikes!).

===============================================================

... Anyway, guys, thanks for the pointers. I am off the road for this coming week. I am looking forward to try out these pointers next week.

... And ride safe.

I might be alittle cracked, but the way I see it, I feel that I can be a safer rider by being skilled (even to include basic stunts like wheelies and stoppies). The rational here is that if I ever accidentally pop the clutch, I will know how to handle to resulting wheelie. Likewise, if I ever grab too much brake, I will also be able to handle the resulting stoppie.

Cheers ...
:fiddy
 

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skeleton said:
In general, not really. If a bike doesn't have enough torque to succeed at Method 1, then usually Method 2 will work.

(Are you doing this with Method 1, when Method 2 doesn't work for you?)
Clutch more likely to slip with Method 2.
 

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skeleton said:
segue00:
Maxxacceleration:

I am guess that slipping the clutch for 25'-50' is a severe strain on the clutch plate. Yes/no? If so, I think I better avoid that method. I am not really looking to drag (speed), just pop up the front end, then gracefully drop it down as I roll away. I never want to do a 12-oclock (yikes!).
Cheers ...
:fiddy
Yes, drag racing is hard on the clutch. But probably safer than searching for top speed. I'll bet a R6 racing clutch is a way cheaper mod than doing a R6 fork mod.
 

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Wheelies

Clutch wheelies, I don't do these as it screws the clutch, changing those is time consuming and expensive.

Power wheelies, like mentioned above, I get to about 25 - 30 mph in 1st shut off the throttle (compressing the front springs) then quickly throttle on hard on the up bounce.

Coming down - put her down gently ladies and gentlemen or screw the head bearings. I achieve this by easing of the throttle slowly and / or using a little bit of rear brake.

Have fun, be safe.
 
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