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Trump denies everything that isn't the reality he constructs right this moment. Then whatever he says is real now, he will deny later if he's got a different reality constructed for himself at that later moment. You already asked if he was a liar. Well, what do you think?
 

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You know the only thing that actually is amazing to me about Trump is that he has still not been taken out of office. In any case I wonder who we might have to vote for in 2020.... I really hope it isn't another vote against someone type of vote. I am also interested to see what changes might come about next year.
 

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Well, you know Hillary will run again. With any luck, she will get knocked out early and then go off to be whatever she wants to be somewhere out of the public eye.

On the Democratic side, I expect Corey Booker and maybe Amy Klobuchar (spelling?). There will be plenty of others.

On the Republican side, I expect to see a challenge from John Kasic. There are the beginning hits of an economic slowdown coming. They are faint, but yield spreads are narrowing a little. That means growth is going to slow if not stop. By itself, that will put Trump's favorability ratings even more into the toilet. The recent tax giveaway to rich people at the expense of the rest of us won't be quite as obvious to the non-observant, but it's going to hurt a lot of people in the short run and even more in the long run. It will also hamstring the nation when a recession comes along and needs to be dealt with.

Dumb. But the people who vote Republican are the same people who vote for a guy like Trump or a guy like Roy Moore. They are more than willing to suspend reality when it conflicts with some kind of tribal wingnut identity. Unfortunately, their dumb will hurt the rest of us, too.
 

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I think that many people who vote Republican vote as such because they see the morals of the Dem party overall as such a great difference from them that they feel they can not vote Dem. A person that could make great financial decisions for the nation could still cause great harm in the eyes of people who have vastly different morals and personal beliefs than that person. Not saying that its the right way to look at things but I think its a big reason they continue to vote R.
 

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Those people who are "morals" voters and still back Trump or Moore are worshiping false prophets. They claim to be Christian, but they are absolutely not, and are going to hell in accordance with the scripture. They are backing the exact opposite of what Jesus taught and forsaking the whole point of Christianity. The more this gets pointed out to so-called Evangelicals who worship exclusion, money, and power and grinding their idea of right and wrong into everyone else's life, the better. Hell is coming for them. The Rapture will not save them, even if it comes. I don't have a lot of sympathy. Harming or hating others isn't right no matter what religion you follow.

Pretty harsh, but read the Bible they claim to follow. They garble up parts of the Old Testament with John the Divine's more hallucinatory passages at the expense of pretty much everything else. They are not much different from the Taliban, deep down. To say that I have absolutely no respect for "morals" voters who are Republicans is an understatement.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, you know Hillary will run again. With any luck, she will get knocked out early and then go off to be whatever she wants to be somewhere out of the public eye.

On the Democratic side, I expect Corey Booker and maybe Amy Klobuchar (spelling?). There will be plenty of others.....
Biden. He's making a lot of noise on the talk shows lately. But he is older, that's for sure. I think Kasich is going to try again in '20, too. Pence? Forget him.
 

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Biden. He's making a lot of noise on the talk shows lately. But he is older, that's for sure. I think Kasich is going to try again in '20, too. Pence? Forget him.
I don't want Biden to run, and if he does, get knocked out early. Time to move on to those who come next. The Baby Boom needs to get out of the damn way. Technically, I'm one of those people who needs to get out of the way, so it's not just sour grapes.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't want Biden to run, and if he does, get knocked out early. Time to move on to those who come next. The Baby Boom needs to get out of the damn way. Technically, I'm one of those people who needs to get out of the way, so it's not just sour grapes.
Maybe. But consider: Biden has a terrific rapport with working people. He's about as close to an old school FDR Democrat that I an think of. He believes in the role of the federal government helping people who can't help themselves and in the govt's job to do the things individuals can't do. Plus, as chairman for years of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee he has a full understanding of that business.

At the same time, there are people like Cory Booker, Warren, (Yes!) Franken, and probably a dozen other Democratic governors and senators I certainly could live with. But...it's way too early to intelligently discuss what will happen.

Right now, you can probably be sure there re a lot of people sizing up a run for the Big Enchilada.
 

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Maybe. But consider: Biden has a terrific rapport with working people. He's about as close to an old school FDR Democrat that I an think of. He believes in the role of the federal government helping people who can't help themselves and in the govt's job to do the things individuals can't do. Plus, as chairman for years of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee he has a full understanding of that business.

At the same time, there are people like Cory Booker, Warren, (Yes!) Franken, and probably a dozen other Democratic governors and senators I certainly could live with. But...it's way too early to intelligently discuss what will happen.

Right now, you can probably be sure there re a lot of people sizing up a run for the Big Enchilada.
I like Biden just fine. Same with Warren. But both are the past, not the future. Franken has obvious issues for the time being. Somebody will crawl out of the woodwork between now and 2020 that we haven't thought of. Obama appeared out of the blue in 2006, if I remember right. The 2018 cycle will start to let us know who might be out there, but it probably won't tell us who is going to run, let alone be successful.

The only constant is that Hillary will keep running until she stops breathing. I wish she would just retire gracefully, but it won't happen.
 

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...The only constant is that Hillary will keep running until she stops breathing. I wish she would just retire gracefully, but it won't happen.
:smile2: You may be right but both Hillary and Bill's names are Mudd right now. I think They're done.

Oh, yes, you'll see an occasional op-ed piece by one of them in one or another publication but the public is done them and I think they know it. That ship has sailed.
 

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Gillibrand is certainly in the thick of things right now. I don't see Kander in 2020. Maybe 2024 or 2028. Some of the things Harris has said make me think she is running. Another one who is not going to run this round but is likely to in the future is Tulsi Gabbard.
 

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The next thing Trump will attempt to deny is a stagnant economy. It's not slowing that much yet, but it's a bit spottier than it was six months ago. The Fed is raising rates, as they should at this point in a recovery. We may see continued growth for quite a few more quarters, but it won't be blazing growth and it won't raise wages much. At least that's what I would expect. The big tax fraud bill that looks like it may actually pass after all won't do all that much to stimulate the economy. What it will do is make rich people richer for a while. That, in turn, will inflate investments because more money will be chasing fewer opportunities for investment. But it won't do a whole lot to put anybody to work or create demand for goods and services that drive growth and employment.

So, how's Trump going to spin that away? How will the GOP attempt to say the Democrats caused a slowdown when the GOP shoved through the "Turn the US into Greece" Act of 2017?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What I can't get my head around is this. Here where I live there are "Now Hiring" signs everywhere. People are going back to work but wages are staying flat or even going downward. Current official employment is being said to be around 4.1%. Those kinds of numbers seriously can't get any better, yet....

This suggests that either a lot of people are NOT getting counted as unemployed or there's some other reason wages don't rise because clearly, the demand is there. But wages aren't.

People who have given up
People who can't find work in their area of work experience
People who don't want to work.
People working under the table (the so-called gig economy)

Then there's this!

Americans are spending $153 billion a year to subsidize McDonald’s and Wal-Mart’s low wage workers
 

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There are help wanted signs, but the help isn't wanted enough to pay more. It's just economics. Besides, what you are seeing is help wanted ads for local businesses. They are operating on fairly thin margins. The big boys are the ones with the fat margins, and that's where the money went. They aren't hiring, but they are dictating prices far more than the little guys ever could. So, the small businessmen who would raise wages are squeezed between the big boys and a labor shortage. It sucks for them. Maybe they will think twice about voting for the GOP next time around, since the GOP stacks it for the big boys.
 

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Honestly it is stacked for the big boys either way. It will always be hard for the small business to compete with the large business for the very reasons you point out and more. The small business does not have the profit to pay higher wages and still be able to grow. Many argue for higher minimum wage but if that was to happen those small businesses would be forced to sell product for more or fire employees and simply work make up for the positions lost with extra time at work and having family work the shifts. Selling product for more does not go over well because the competition down the street can still sell it for the same price because they have a higher margin to begin with. It is hard for me to see a true answer that will help to raise wages and not put small businesses out but maybe I am just missing the path to making that happen.
 

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There are help wanted signs, but the help isn't wanted enough to pay more. It's just economics. Besides, what you are seeing is help wanted ads for local businesses. They are operating on fairly thin margins. The big boys are the ones with the fat margins, and that's where the money went. They aren't hiring, but they are dictating prices far more than the little guys ever could. So, the small businessmen who would raise wages are squeezed between the big boys and a labor shortage. It sucks for them. Maybe they will think twice about voting for the GOP next time around, since the GOP stacks it for the big boys.
Therefore the unemployment stats are probably incorrect. They are wildly overstated because wages are not rising (with the stated 4.1% rate) as they should because of the competition for labor. If anything, a local economy would suggest rising wages even more likely than in, say, a national chain which can draw from a much larger labor market for at least some of their labor needs.

OR.....

Here's one thing I am noticing more and more. I had a local hardware store which is totally independent of any of the buying coops like TrueValue. 6 miles from my old house is a Home Depot. The prices (generally) are the same whether I buy a step ladder at one or the other (I actually checked). I began to notice that the notion that "b***** is better" may be true but not in terms of price. Home Depot has a huge variety of offerings..everything from sop to nuts, as they say, but their business model is completely different than my local hardware store, which probably cannot buy as cheaply as Home Depot for that step ladder.

OTOH, Home Depot has enormous carrying/labor costs compared to the local guy. And that's just for openers. Fixed and Variable costs, insurance, labor bennies....are wildly different.

So I think that's what's suppressing wages is technology/automation, the kind of jobs that are open require a higher average skill level, competition from illegal aliens, and suppression of labor unions. All of it counts.
 
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