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Sure, it could count. I'm sure I don't need to school you on representative samples and the scientific method.
 

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Random encounters on my vacation in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. Two simple questions:
1. Do you like your system of health care?
2. Would you trade it for the system in the US?

Cutting to the chase:
1. Yes (unanimously, but with varying degrees of enthusiasm.) About a third had some criticism or medical story, the rest had none. Only three or four complained about waits. Most expressed some form of fondness. No one hated their system.
2. No (unanimously and without pause.) "You people are crazy" was a common theme.

Clearly, there is not a great deal of dissatisfaction among the people I spoke with. Now one could pick this apart, obviously, but I'd tend to think these random encounters know more about their system than the insurance lobby shills we get our "best in the world" information from.

BTW, I decided to do this after finding out that my Ex-Pat friend (who had a profoundly disabled daughter) couldn't move back to the states because he'd be unable to find insurance for her.

She (the daughter) was one of those Canucks who'd come to the US about annually to NIH for participation in a research program. Health Canada would pay for the treatment, for her and her parent to fly down, and for their lodging. Apparently, it was simply cheaper to do so. I learned this is common for very unusual illnesses and has nothing to do with availability. It's a deliberate strategy to make the health care dollar go farther. My friends didn't begrudge this strategy; they were grateful for it.
 

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Writer of Wrongs
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Ironically the biggest proponents of a national health care system in the near future will more than likely be the large American corporations. They get socked for the big bills when it comes to the health care of their employees. Is there any wonder why Canada made more cars than America last year? Because the big three does not have to pay the big insurance bills there or in Mexico, or in China, and so on and so on.

An argument can be made that a national health care system would be good for the American economy because large corporations would have that burden, or at least part of it, off of their shoulders. Without this burden manufacturing, engineering, and technical jobs would not flood out into foreign countries and corporations would be more willing to produce more goods in America. I know for a fact that the American worker is still the most efficient, productive, and well trained in the world on average and I have to believe that the management and executives want to utilize this resource.

Large corporations and all their ideals of capitalism would have to consider some form of socialized medicine to survive and possibly thrive.
 

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Old school fool
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I read somewhere recently that the reason the US has employer based health care is because of WWII. During the war the government had a price/wage freeze and companies that needed people couldn't offer them more money. What they did was add benefits and health care was one of them.

If the companies hadn't started that then a lot of our health care would be user chosen insurance, like getting car insurance, and the companies would have to compete for our dollars. But, since most people are insured through their jobs, there really is little competition and little incentive to provide health coverage to individual buyers.

The hospitals are getting b***** and more elaborate because the health care companies pay the bills but in most cases the patient chooses the facility. For emergency care, its usually the closest, but for things like maternity the building itself is what attracts the paitients. The nicer it is, the more patients come and the b***** the economy of scale is. You can actually drive your costs per patient down by serving people in bulk.

The funny thing is, we have national health care for poor people. People on welfare can get medicaid (or charity) to help defray (or totally cover) their healthcare costs. Its the people in the middle that are getting the shaft - making too much money for welfare but ot getting insured or not making enough to buy thier own insurance.
 

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The whole system is messed up beyond repair. We will try to fix it again and again with no luck and in the end the government will have to take over. This will be good because everyone will have basic care. But say goodbye to procedures like heart transplants because they cost way too much. Oh and those elective procedures, they can wait. Of course you can pay to have them fixed abroad. I hear Asia has some great hospitals.
 

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If we do end up having the shittiest public health care in the world, as you describe, I'm sure we'll be able to pay to be treated in Canada. However, I think, since every other first-world country already has it, we have some good models to learn from.

Health care is rationed now, however on an on-off basis not on a shared sacrifice basis. One way to get the valve turned off is to lose your job. Another way is for your employer to be unable to pay. Low income is another. And shamefully, needing it will also get you excluded. Somehow, I still think the latter rationing method would be better for the country.
 

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You got that right.
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Using statistics, 30 units (or n = 30) is sufficient for most distributions, 100 instances are not requisite. From what I can remember back in the early years of college...
 

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RESIDENT ASSHOLE
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Im with the policing of insurance companies.............

Doesnt anyone ever wonder why the government mandated auto insurance but wont regulate the pricing structure?

Insurance companies together probably hold more money than any other industry. Wealth comes with power to sway politics.

You wont see an insurance reform because a few key people are bought by generous "donations"

What I dont understand is why people in prison are offered great medical care yet the guy at walmart has to pay out the ass for it. One is a burden to society and the other is at least trying.

Health care is a fucked situation that will unfortunately, have to hit rock bottom before it gets scrutinized by the right people.
 

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hybrid said:
Wealth comes with power to sway politics.
Have to get rid of campain finance reform before this will ever stop. You get that to stop and things could turn for the better. Will it happen...no.
 

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People who think that the government is looking out for their best interests never cease to amaze me. SOCIALIZED health care (that IS what we're talking about, after all) is essentially giving the government the power of life or death. THAT is the reason I'VE read and heard for Canadians coming here. What happens now if your p.c.p. is a p.o.s. and doesn't want to take the time to properly diagnose what your problem is? You go find another one. Can you do that when the government tells you who to go to because of your geographic location? Can you go for a second opinion? What happens when certain ailments are considered too expensive to be "in the people's best interest" to keep them alive? What if your problem is difficult to diagnose and the government appointed doc says you're fine? Then your stuck with that misdiagnosis because you have no freedom of choice for medical care.
The government doesn't care about YOU or ME. They care about gaining control of another part of our lives, of gaining control of another segment of the now private sector, of gaining control over more of the mighty dollar. You wait and see... people will die because the government decides they aren't worth saving. It WILL happen. There may be things that can be fixed, diseases that could be cured or at least controlled that the government will decide are too costly to deal with... you'll just never find out because the doctors and medical experts will all be on the government payroll.
As I stated, the current system is a mess and may not be fixable. Sure, private companies are similar to the government in their lack of concern for the individual. BUT, there is still freedom of choice. There are still ways to get the care you need. Money can be raised, things can be done. Putting the government in control of your health, of your lifespan when you get down to it, is insanely dangerous and foolish. Coming from all of you people on here who are so convinced about the corruptness of our government, it's ridiculously inconsistent. You want these people in control of your health, but think they are money grubbing liars? Genius! :rolleyes
 

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That's simply not been the case elsewhere. In fact, it's insane to put people in charge of your health care that are purely profit driven. And it's even more insane to have a healthcare system that routinely bankrupts hard-working people who have one major illness. Lastly, it's insane to continue to support a system that has had a profound negative effect on the intergenerational transfer of wealth (which is the number 1 predictor of prosperity.)
 

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jim schmidt said:
That's simply not been the case elsewhere. In fact, it's insane to put people in charge of your health care that are purely profit driven. And it's even more insane to have a healthcare system that routinely bankrupts hard-working people who have one major illness. Lastly, it's insane to continue to support a system that has had a profound negative effect on the intergenerational transfer of wealth (which is the number 1 predictor of prosperity.)

Name me 1 government program that is run efficiently and not bloated with bureaucracy and graft and that doesn't keep increasing taxes yearly. I'll accept any government program that is on/under budget and can account for the monies expended...

Government involvment may become necessary...but I don't want a bunch of Lawyers in Washington running the medical system...
 

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The most I can complain about our health care is the waiting times. I had a gym accident in which I the top half of my index finger crushed. I had to wait in pain and agony for 6 hours at the hopsital! During that time I wanted to shot myself. When you finally see the doctor its a huge relief. Its only bad in emergency situations. Seeing you family doctor is ok. The only thing I had to pay for the whole sistuation was the ambulance ride which cost me $75 Cdn. Other than that, I didn't pay a cent.

When I was in the hospital in the 1980's there was no waiting times and you got to see a doctor the minute you walked in. Those were the days. Another reason why I wear so much gear on my motorbike, I know the wait times.

I do agree that you don't make healthcare private.
 

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jim schmidt said:
That's simply not been the case elsewhere.
Really Jim? And how do you know, exactly? Apparently, you are privy to top level government information in these other countries. Wow, you must be more important than I give you credit for. :eek:nfloor
For someone like you that cries about the government corruption you believe "W" and the Republicans are responsible for, I'm surprised you're so ready to give them such power over your and your family's lives. Then again, liberals are often very inconsistent...
 

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crx81 said:
Then again, liberals are often very inconsistent...
Then again, conservatives are often assholes.

I only do that to point out how ridiculous you sound when making outlandish generalizations. What is your point?
 

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sexyicecold said:
Then again, conservatives are often assholes.

I only do that to point out how ridiculous you sound when making outlandish generalizations. What is your point?

:eek:nfloor Good reply. At least you don't sound ridiculous. :rolleyes

If you missed my point, perhaps you should brush up on your reading comprehension and try reading my post again.
 

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crx81 said:
Really Jim? And how do you know, exactly? Apparently, you are privy to top level government information in these other countries. Wow, you must be more important than I give you credit for. :eek:nfloor
For someone like you that cries about the government corruption you believe "W" and the Republicans are responsible for, I'm surprised you're so ready to give them such power over your and your family's lives. Then again, liberals are often very inconsistent...
I don't see anything resembling a counter argument here.
 
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