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King of the Hopeless
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Discussion Starter #81
I should also point out that there is a fair amount of scientific evidence that distance athletes are absolutely no good at performing tasks that are outside of their training domain.
 

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Yeah I train my arms. It's just from what I've read, its going to take FOREVER to gain muscle mass while doing extensive cardio. Up from 75 bench to 105 and 15 lb curls to 25 lb curls. My abs aren't getting stronger necessarily but definitely more defined. I'm getting there slowly
 

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Yeah I train my arms. It's just from what I've read, its going to take FOREVER to gain muscle mass while doing extensive cardio. Up from 75 bench to 105 and 15 lb curls to 25 lb curls. My abs aren't getting stronger necessarily but definitely more defined. I'm getting there slowly
It isn't that it is impossible to gain mass, its just more difficult for one single reason: inadequate calories. To gain mass you must have more calories in than out. Cardio is a decently efficient means of burning calories, so a 1 hour run will burn off an additional 500-700 calories. Coupled with a bulking workout that should burn about 400-500 you're looking at about 1000 calories burned above your daily burn rate. So, for me, my daily burn rate at 6'5'', 255 is about 3500 cals/day. Add on 1000 and that's 4500 I need to maintain weight. 500 more to gain mass means 5000 calories per day which is a lot to eat. It is possible, just more difficult.

Strength training and mass gaining are different, although do have some cross overs. If you're looking for mass, don't expect the best strength results. Strength involves a lot of tendon work as well, whereas mass gaining doesn't work tendons as much.

How much are you working out? To gain size you should be aiming at about 100 reps per week at each exercise. Much more and you're doing damage to your tendons that may not fully heal in your rest time (assuming you are getting in adequate rest/diet). Try to take a deloading week every now and then to better your results. I do one every 2 months. You should be doing every set to failure as well. Is it just that you can do 3 sets at say 5-8 reps at 25 pounds, or are you struggling to get out that last rep or two? If you aren't struggling up the weight slowly and incrementally so as to not damage yourself.
 

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Functionality is best haha. One minute handstand? Dang. My balance is so poor I can't do a ten second one.


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I can't do a 1 minute freestanding one, but 1 minute belly to wall. Always work on belly to wall, and don't try to get right next to it immediately. A good progression is to find a distance you can do it at and work at that distance in the following progression:

6 times at 10 seconds with rest in between
4 times at 15 seconds ""
3 times at 20 seconds ""
2 times at 30 seconds ""
1 time at 1 minute ""

Then, move about 4-6 inches closer. Once you get about 4-6 inches to the wall put one leg out front in a L formation with one leg against the wall, then work the progression freestanding in an L formation. Then work on bringing up the second leg.

This will help improve balance, but more importantly, help open up your shoulders. The problem with handstands is most people can't open up their shoulders enough to provide the musculo-skeletal support to perform one. This trains that.
 

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I like that. That sounds a lot like my old bouldering workouts, except hanging with your elbows slightly bent. Interesting. As soon as exams are over, I'll definitely start incorporating that. All I'm doing right now is a pull-up, push-up, ab, dip, some running, and burpee esque stuff to prepare for cross country coming back in a few months.


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I like that. That sounds a lot like my old bouldering workouts, except hanging with your elbows slightly bent. Interesting. As soon as exams are over, I'll definitely start incorporating that. All I'm doing right now is a pull-up, push-up, ab, dip, some running, and burpee esque stuff to prepare for cross country coming back in a few months.


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Gotta be sure to keep your own goals in line. I should say, not sure if it came across clearly enough, that isn't one day that's the progression. So until you can do it solidly at 10 seconds 6 times you shouldn't try for 15 seconds for 4 times. Just progress gradually and then once you can hold it with proper form at 1 minute length, move the hands in another 6 inches. I have markers on the ground so I know where my hands are.

My general workout is as follows, I'd be happy to give you a bit easier progression, as it has taken me 6 months to work up to this, if you want to try it. It is 100% bodyweight which I love doing. I do it in my garage, and never have to go to a gym. You won't see the same size gains as you would lifting because hypertrophy can be a bit more difficult to achieve (but can be addressed), but strength and balance really improve.

The general routine is:
1. Flexibility
2. Warm up
3. Skills
4. Actual workout

I try to do flexibility training everyday even when not working out as it really addresses joint strength more than muscular development. I follow this here (and the warm up) for steps 1 and 2:

phraktured.net: Molding Mobility

Then come skills. Skills involve 3 particular abilities: handstands, L-sits, and support. All follow the same progression as above. With L-sits, start with straight legs, then do one leg lift, then a bent leg feet off the ground, then straight up L-sit. Supports you would typically use parallel bars which I don't have at home, so anything will do. Two chairs, I use the washer and drier in my garage to just hold yourself up as long as you can. Starting with legs straight down, then tucked back, then lifted up in the L-sit position. Skills will rock your core.

Following that comes the actual workout, all are 3x5-3x8 progressions to failure. So once you can do 3x8 without much struggle you make it more difficult with however much rest in between you need, although 30s-1 min is ideal. Once again there is a progression for it, but I'll just post up where I'm at.
1: Horizontal Push - Wide leg half width diamond (hands not 100% touching, but about halfway in from a normal push up).
2. Horizontal Pull - One leg tuck supported lever pulls
3. Vertical Push - Pike headstand push up (I really should move up to a box headstand push up though)
4. Vertical Pull - Negative alternating grip pull ups (one set standard, one set wide, one set reverse grip)
5. Legs - Pistol Squats unweighted, calf raises

That's it, you're done! Also, I recommend yoga on weekends. Tis a wonder.

And jeez that's a lot of calories.


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Yep. I eat about 4,000 cals/day and that's difficult as is.

:edit: and good luck with exams, I'm in the middle of them too. I take it you're not a senior yet since you still seem to kinda care :p
 

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And thanks bunches for the workout! That's neat. I used to go on a jog for fifteen minutes and do some planks and hangs (is what I called them). Then I did pull up pyramids, window washers, full body dips, wide/regular/nose-in-the-triangle push-ups followed by pull-ups till failure for about three to five sets. Then I did burpee and medicine ball stuff and then some good ole bicycle crunches. I miss climbing. I was so much stronger. Curse you, awful back and shoulders. But again thanks for the workout!


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IB forces me to care. I actually really enjoy school. I say that now...


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Congrats on the IB stuff (I take it you're still in high school?). Don't be discouraged by me, I enjoy school. I graduate in May from college and was greatful for the AP work I did in high school. Definitely made freshman year much easier.
 

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Yes. I really enjoy the IB program. It's pretty great in the sense I'm in all classes with people who try and care about school, henceforth my learning environment has become scary comfortable. I only have one instructor who has not one iota of what they're doing. Other than that, it's been pretty good. But it's only been one semester so we'll see how this turns out.


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Okay, rant time. Just gotta get it out. Not towards anyone here, just towards people on other forums/facebook.

Winter, for many, equals bulking time. Myself included. But it really bugs me when I see people complaining about how difficult it is for them to eat 2500-3000 calories and that it is just so difficult. I know I shouldn't judge, because everyone is different, but fuck it upsets me! You knew you had to eat a lot if you wanted to bulk, but don't whine about it. You decided to try this bulk, you should have planned it out better for how to eat. Plus, I have to go for 4200-4500 cals/day to bulk. Eat more, eat smarter more calorie dense foods.
 

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I watched them last spring/summer. And my point was, you're typically only really effective at what you train for. If you train to lift heavy things, odds are you are better at lifting than running. I thought that was a no brainer. Distance runners train exclusively for running distances. It doesn't necessarily mean they're weak and useless, it just means that's what they trained to do. I'm assuming you had to train yourself in distance in order to run those marathons. You performed the task because you trained for it, not because you lift. See what I'm saying?


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King of the Hopeless
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Discussion Starter #97
Agreed. However across several domains strength athletes outperform distance athletes. Moreover distance athletes typically have eroded levels of muscle, coordination and strength.
 

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It isn't that it is impossible to gain mass, its just more difficult for one single reason: inadequate calories. To gain mass you must have more calories in than out. Cardio is a decently efficient means of burning calories, so a 1 hour run will burn off an additional 500-700 calories. Coupled with a bulking workout that should burn about 400-500 you're looking at about 1000 calories burned above your daily burn rate. So, for me, my daily burn rate at 6'5'', 255 is about 3500 cals/day. Add on 1000 and that's 4500 I need to maintain weight. 500 more to gain mass means 5000 calories per day which is a lot to eat. It is possible, just more difficult.

Strength training and mass gaining are different, although do have some cross overs. If you're looking for mass, don't expect the best strength results. Strength involves a lot of tendon work as well, whereas mass gaining doesn't work tendons as much.

How much are you working out? To gain size you should be aiming at about 100 reps per week at each exercise. Much more and you're doing damage to your tendons that may not fully heal in your rest time (assuming you are getting in adequate rest/diet). Try to take a deloading week every now and then to better your results. I do one every 2 months. You should be doing every set to failure as well. Is it just that you can do 3 sets at say 5-8 reps at 25 pounds, or are you struggling to get out that last rep or two? If you aren't struggling up the weight slowly and incrementally so as to not damage yourself.
If I'm benching, the first set of 5 is fine, the 5th rep on the second set is a bit of a struggle, and the 4th and 5th rep on the 3rd set are struggle fest. Is that about right? I try to set it so I can do the first set well, almost all the second set well, and the struggle the last bit of the 3rd set. Should I go to fail on the last rep of the 1st set then back the weight down..?

I do arms one day, back the next, shoulders the next, chest the next, and cycle through that. I do abs almost every day but its more sit ups and medicine ball type stuff. I will be adding leg day in soon.

I want mass in my arms and strength in my legs all while running about 20 miles a week. What do you suggest?
 

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I do chest, triceps, shoulders, abs and calves one day, back, biceps, forearms, and upper legs the next. I would do a few more than 5 reps per set until you've bulked up some. I try to do 3 different workouts per muscle group, 3 sets of each
 
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