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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey there guys, this is my 2nd post. Recently me and a couple of my buddies have shown great interest in bikes. I've been lurking on forums reading during my spare time and most of my friends do the same. Now we all decided that no matter what bike one of us chose, we're riding together. I'm looking at an 06 zzr600 or an f4i. Almost everyone in the squad is looking at 600s or less for their first bike. But one of my buddies really wants a new limited edition busa. Now from forums I know that this is an asinine move (so is starting on a 600 but this is not about that haha). Whenever we try to talk him away from it and tell him to start on a 6 if he wants a SS he says "I can handle it" or "I'll take it slow." We've all rode dirt for a while and he took his uncle's 91 cbr 600 for a spin once and he thinks he's ready for one of the fastest bikes on the street. Yesterday we got into an arguement over it and this is what I said, almost word for word. "riding a motorcycle a couple times around the block means almost nothing and dirt is nowhere near the same as street. 90s supersport are like todays 500s. You know clutch and throttle control but that is almost it. It is the first street bike you have owned. Your first bike shouldn't be your last. Riding doesn't mean just staying right side up and goin fast in a straight. You have to be able to control the bike when unexpected things happen and shit goes bad and if you can't you'll pay for it. No new rider can control a busa or a litre bike when they hit an unexpected patch if gravel or pothole and lose the back end of the bike or put too much throttle in a turn and low side. They probably can't control a 6 either but I'd rather wreck on a 6 than on a busa. I'm just trying to look out do what you want."
Sorry about the long post but I don't know what else to tell him. I know was over exaggerating about something's but I'm just trying to help him out. Is there anything else I can say or do to dissuade him? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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It sounds like you have some very valid points to discuss but your friend doesn't really want to hear it.

Do you keep beating your friend with this to try to change his opinion? Or do you instead say to yourself, "I did what I can."

When he gets his new Busa, you need to invest in a GoPro, or something. Please get video of him riding it out of the dealership. Could go Viral!?!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It sounds like you have some very valid points to discuss but your friend doesn't really want to hear it.

Do you keep beating your friend with this to try to change his opinion? Or do you instead say to yourself, "I did what I can."

When he gets his new Busa, you need to invest in a GoPro, or something. Please get video of him riding it out of the dealership. Could go Viral!?!?
I was considering getting a GoPro Hero 3 to do some motovlogging. I might just do that haha.


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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Paragraphs, please.

The only other thing I can think to do, since his ego is overriding his brain is to tell him how ridiculous he's going to look having one of the fastest bikes on the planet going around corners like a scared Harley rider and how you and your pals will all be ribbing him constantly because of it.

Granted, that's the low road, but it's a road...

Enter the "I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow." (As if a 600RR is slow...)
Yea didnt realize I had to write in essay format haha but we aren't the type to give each other crap about things.Yea we bag on each other but not to a point where it gets personal. I support all my bros even if I thinks it's a bad decision. the main thing I'm worried about is him making a simple mistake and the busa acts as a multiplier, even more so than a 600. I might use that quote though.


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You can persuade him to get a smaller/different bike till your blue in the face, if his mind
is made up, its made up.

Push/advise safety gear towards him.

Since he can afford a LE Busa & the insurance to cover it, surely he can afford decent gear.

Or has he even considered the cost of insurance?

My guess is no...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You can persuade him to get a smaller/different bike till your blue in the face, if his mind
is made up, its made up.

Push/advise safety gear towards him.

Since he can afford a LE Busa & the insurance to cover it, surely he can afford decent gear.

Or has he even considered the cost of insurance?

My guess is no...
I don't think he has because he's kind of spoiled. His dad pays for a lot of his stuff. I know my insurance will be about 1700 a year on a 600. We are both very young so I'm sure insurance will be a pain in the butt for him. And we know to wear gear. It may not be full gear but helmet, jacket, gloves is the minimum for us.


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Hey there guys, this is my 2nd post. Recently me and a couple of my buddies have shown great interest in bikes. I've been lurking on forums reading during my spare time and most of my friends do the same. Now we all decided that no matter what bike one of us chose, we're riding together. I'm looking at an 06 zzr600 or an f4i. Almost everyone in the squad is looking at 600s or less for their first bike. But one of my buddies really wants a new limited edition busa. Now from forums I know that this is an asinine move (so is starting on a 600 but this is not about that haha). Whenever we try to talk him away from it and tell him to start on a 6 if he wants a SS he says "I can handle it" or "I'll take it slow." We've all rode dirt for a while and he took his uncle's 91 cbr 600 for a spin once and he thinks he's ready for one of the fastest bikes on the street. Yesterday we got into an arguement over it and this is what I said, almost word for word. "riding a motorcycle a couple times around the block means almost nothing and dirt is nowhere near the same as street. 90s supersport are like todays 500s. You know clutch and throttle control but that is almost it. It is the first street bike you have owned. Your first bike shouldn't be your last. Riding doesn't mean just staying right side up and goin fast in a straight. You have to be able to control the bike when unexpected things happen and shit goes bad and if you can't you'll pay for it. No new rider can control a busa or a litre bike when they hit an unexpected patch if gravel or pothole and lose the back end of the bike or put too much throttle in a turn and low side. They probably can't control a 6 either but I'd rather wreck on a 6 than on a busa. I'm just trying to look out do what you want."

Sorry about the long post but I don't know what else to tell him. I know was over exaggerating about something's but I'm just trying to help him out. Is there anything else I can say or do to dissuade him? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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Take whatever superfluous and asinine reasons you think validate your decision to start on a 600 and figure out how to successfully counter them. Once that is done, use them on yourself so that you make a better decision on what bike to start out on (and it ain't no 600cc SS). Once you have your 250/200/400/500/650twin, learn to ride properly and lead by example. How can you expect to convince your buddy against the exact same decision you are knowingly making for yourself?

Sure, you've figured out semi-clever ways to rationalize the hairs you're splitting between a 'busa and your 600cc SS for a new rider, but being clever won't save your ass (and you're certainly not as clever as you probably think you are). The difference between the bike you want to buy and the one your buddy wants isn't akin to comparing a basket of kittens to a bucket full of baby crocodiles, it's the difference between deciding to snort cocaine and mainlining heroin. Yes, there are degrees of difference, but they're not all that significant given the skin you both have in the game and the relative risk that your decisions carry.
 

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Lead by example get yourself something small ride it until it get's cold sell it in the spring and go b*****, that will at least give you a chance. Really, ride your own ride that's all you can do. Let's face it a lot of people buy bikes for the look, they ride around in cool jackets short gloves, tennis shoes and jeans. And yes that looks bad ass sitting at a stop light revving the engine while looking over at a vette but your limiting yourself. A real rider will be able to tell what your all about the first time you go into a corner. So if you want to look the part then jump on a 600, busa or whatever, if you really want to learn how to ride do it right. Start small and get all the training you can, lee parks, trackdays etc.. It's sooooooo better to ride a slow bike fast than look like a dork riding a fast bike slow.
 

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Peer pressure. If ALL the gang talks to him, he might listen. Might.
The other choice is low down, mean and rotten. It will have to be done as a group.
Arrange a "coincidental" meeting with ALL your buds, his parents AND him.
Explain to his parents that he is committing suicide, in an elaborate, tangential way.
You will lose a friend and the gang will be short a member, but that is GOING to happen.
This way your friend is still alive. Where there is life, there is hope.
In a decade or two, the fact that ALL his friends talked with his parents about this will have meaning to him. Maybe faster if his parents do right and send him to a P-shrink.
 
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Hey there guys, this is my 2nd post. Recently me and a couple of my buddies have shown great interest in bikes. I've been lurking on forums reading during my spare time and most of my friends do the same. Now we all decided that no matter what bike one of us chose, we're riding together. I'm looking at an 06 zzr600 or an f4i. Almost everyone in the squad is looking at 600s or less for their first bike. But one of my buddies really wants a new limited edition busa. Now from forums I know that this is an asinine move (so is starting on a 600 but this is not about that haha). Whenever we try to talk him away from it and tell him to start on a 6 if he wants a SS he says "I can handle it" or "I'll take it slow." We've all rode dirt for a while and he took his uncle's 91 cbr 600 for a spin once and he thinks he's ready for one of the fastest bikes on the street. Yesterday we got into an arguement over it and this is what I said, almost word for word. "riding a motorcycle a couple times around the block means almost nothing and dirt is nowhere near the same as street. 90s supersport are like todays 500s. You know clutch and throttle control but that is almost it. It is the first street bike you have owned. Your first bike shouldn't be your last. Riding doesn't mean just staying right side up and goin fast in a straight. You have to be able to control the bike when unexpected things happen and shit goes bad and if you can't you'll pay for it. No new rider can control a busa or a litre bike when they hit an unexpected patch if gravel or pothole and lose the back end of the bike or put too much throttle in a turn and low side. They probably can't control a 6 either but I'd rather wreck on a 6 than on a busa. I'm just trying to look out do what you want."
Sorry about the long post but I don't know what else to tell him. I know was over exaggerating about something's but I'm just trying to help him out. Is there anything else I can say or do to dissuade him? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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You're living in a glass house and throwing stones. You've already told us that you're starting out on a 600 despite it being "an asinine move." However, you're criticizing your friend for doing the same thing, just to a different degree. It's good to hear that you're concerned about your friend, but you need to be concerned about yourself as well. The same reasons you're planning on starting out on a 600 are the same reasons that your friend wants to start on a Hayabusa.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You guys make really valid points. The reason most of us wanted to start on 600s is because there are many people who we associate with (20+) who started on 6s and are doing fine. Only a few have laid down their bike and none have died. In fact I can't name anyone that I know starting on less than a 6. But all of them said that they wouldn't have started on anything above a 600. So it was basically what I read on the Internet vs. real life encounters. I think the Suzuki sv650sf is pretty sweet it just it doesn't have that explosive power band that I've always been attracted to. Guess I'll give my choices more thought as well. Thanks for your input.


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When reading a post, always keep in mind what that poster rides. 600 is just a number. 650 twins DO NOT have much in the way of power. It would not surprise me to find a 250 I4 that produced more power then a 600 twin.
Twins do produce torque. Torque up to a point is good for beginning riders.
Torque however is normally good up to around 65 MPH. After that Horsepower is what matters.
For some reason I never figured out, some people fear RPM's. For them a wide power band is a plus. I am just as comfortable at the right side of the tach as I am on the left. Adele, my motorcycle, likes the right side best.
A lot depends on the type of riding you do. If your goal is to ride parking lots, Torque is what you want. My favorite type of riding is through traffic on the slab (Interstate). That is best done with pace (120mph+). I don't know of any twins that will do that very well. At least not good enough to avoid being dangerous. Narrow power band and 100 horsepower are entry level requirements. Plus, as always on the street, you need to leave yourself a little extra for emergencies.:spit
My OPINION is that the 600 class are excellent 'learning' machines. Understanding,of course, that not all 600's are created equal. A true SuperSport is a bad choice for a beginner. Like using a scalpel to chop wood.
Yes, it's sharp, shiny and fits into your hand nice but boy, what a lot of work.
On the other hand Suzuki and Kawasaki both make most excellent beginner plus 650's. I say plus because after you get the fundamentals down pat, they still have enough left to work on some of the lesser advanced skills. Not enough there to keep up with the big boys or the rat pack (SS) if they decide to get wristy. The first time you try you will will learn why those machines cost 3 times what yours does. Might as well go back to the suds shop and see how their girl friends are making out.:luvpanda
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
When reading a post, always keep in mind what that poster rides. 600 is just a number. 650 twins DO NOT have much in the way of power. It would not surprise me to find a 250 I4 that produced more power then a 600 twin.
Twins do produce torque. Torque up to a point is good for beginning riders.
Torque however is normally good up to around 65 MPH. After that Horsepower is what matters.
For some reason I never figured out, some people fear RPM's. For them a wide power band is a plus. I am just as comfortable at the right side of the tach as I am on the left. Adele, my motorcycle, likes the right side best.
A lot depends on the type of riding you do. If your goal is to ride parking lots, Torque is what you want. My favorite type of riding is through traffic on the slab (Interstate). That is best done with pace (120mph+). I don't know of any twins that will do that very well. At least not good enough to avoid being dangerous. Narrow power band and 100 horsepower are entry level requirements. Plus, as always on the street, you need to leave yourself a little extra for emergencies.:spit
My OPINION is that the 600 class are excellent 'learning' machines. Understanding,of course, that not all 600's are created equal. A true SuperSport is a bad choice for a beginner. Like using a scalpel to chop wood.
Yes, it's sharp, shiny and fits into your hand nice but boy, what a lot of work.
On the other hand Suzuki and Kawasaki both make most excellent beginner plus 650's. I say plus because after you get the fundamentals down pat, they still have enough left to work on some of the lesser advanced skills. Not enough there to keep up with the big boys or the rat pack (SS) if they decide to get wristy. The first time you try you will will learn why those machines cost 3 times what yours does. Might as well go back to the suds shop and see how their girl friends are making out.:luvpanda
I live in a very rural area so the roads here are long with a good mix of twisties and straights. Also I moved away from my hometown 2 years ago and I plan on making weekly trips there (100+ combined miles to and from) and I know the powerband on an I4 is lovely when you need some "get up and go" on an open highway. But I'm giving my bike choice much thought now that I've gotten some other advice from other riders.


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I obviously don't know you're complete background (didn't see it in this thread), but if you haven't ridden before I think you might be surprised at how fast a 500/650 really is. I did some 1/8th mile drag racing on my 500 and my times we almost always quicker than the Z06s, SLS AMGs, etc that ran as well.

As a personal preference, I enjoyed starting on an older bike as well because it gives you an appreciation for a newer, more sophisticated machine.
 

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Something else the neewbees fail to understand is that while the Gobermint has one speed for 'fast' (DOT says 140 MPH) reality has many.
For example track speed vs street speed. There are countless automobiles that will out run my Fazer on the track. The only sure bet on the street is a GT-R 34 or 35. And I'm not certain about the 35. It is pretty much of a pig, weighing more then a 'vette. That is because racetracks are smooth and banked, streets are not. Then there is the width of a bike. My Fazer is 29.5 inches wide. That is about average, I think. When a car is centered in a lane, there is lots of room left for my bike. I don't have to move to the next lane to pass. That hyper car following me has to wait for somebody to get out of their way.
So yes, a 250 or 500 can beat a fast car. Right up until that first long straight section of road. Then you are road kill. You could be on any superbike and that wouldn't matter. On the racetrack or a long straight away, it is Horsepower and drag that matter.
Most fast cars have Drag Coefficients in the low .3's. Some even get in the high .28 range. The lowest bike I know of was the old BMW Boxer series. IIRC, they went in the low .6 range. Most bikes are in the .7 range. A brick is 1.0
 

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I live in a very rural area so the roads here are long with a good mix of twisties and straights. Also I moved away from my hometown 2 years ago and I plan on making weekly trips there (100+ combined miles to and from) and I know the powerband on an I4 is lovely when you need some "get up and go" on an open highway. But I'm giving my bike choice much thought now that I've gotten some other advice from other riders.


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That 'get up and go' is the last thing you want as a new rider, especially on the highway. There are nearly 0 situations where 'gunning it' is a better idea than braking, swerving, or both. And as a new rider, your throttle control will be terrible, and the first time you hit a pothole in the powerband you better hope you're not leaned over.

Thats why a 650 with a very linear power curve is better suited to a new rider. Plus the 650s have slightly comfier ergos, softer suspension, and the brakes are more forgiving (harder to lockup)

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