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No amount of advice or encouragement is going to stop a noob from locking the front tire, goosing the throttle while leaned over, yamming the brake while leaned over, etc. We're trying to help new riders make a smart choice to greatly decrease their chances of winding up a pile of ground meat. Were not even ragging on the OP for getting a 600, he has plenty of experience. You, on the other hand, are making it sound like the s1000 is a great first bike. So yes, I will be unfriendly and say you're an idiot
 
... Personally I've never encounter a group of people so unfriendly and arrogant since I started riding. If a person doesn't bow down and heed your warnings of the big bad wolf in motorcycle fairings they're an idiot. No tips about riding. No words of advice on how to handle the bike. No words of encouragement. Just derision.
Well, the FIRST words of advice are always to get a bike that's suitable for learning to ride, get proper riding gear, and to get some professional riding instruction. If a person is receptive to heeding the advice of highly experienced people, then advice about riding, handling, encouragement, and many other helpful topics are readily available.

OTOH, if the immediate response from the new guy is to tell the highly experienced people that he doesn't need a starter bike or a riding class, he's a special snowflake that knows it all already, that he'll "respect the machine", and to F off, well, he's not going to get much further help. This makes sense.

PhilB
 
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Well, the FIRST words of advice are always to get a bike that's suitable for learning to ride, get proper riding gear, and to get some professional riding instruction. If a person is receptive to heeding the advice of highly experienced people, then advice about riding, handling, encouragement, and many other helpful topics are readily available.

OTOH, if the immediate response from the new guy is to tell the highly experienced people that he doesn't need a starter bike or a riding class, he's a special snowflake that knows it all already, that he'll "respect the machine", and to F off, well, he's not going to get much further help. This makes sense.

PhilB
The best way I can see to illustrate what I'm saying is a recent thread on another forum.

Does anyone else regret starting on a 600?(cbr600rr) - CBR Forum - Enthusiast forums for Honda CBR Owners

But I suppose we'll get accused of newbie endangerment for our responses. And yes, I did say I made a throttle mistake while learning on my F3. It was after fixing a flat spot that had her limited to 5.5k rpm even at WOT.
 
Discussion starter · #164 ·
Did some reading from that link. Seems like a very respectful forum
 
Discussion starter · #166 ·
Lol this fool gotta be a troll, who the hell would hire this idiot as a sales manager. All this nonsense about a bike at cost...This guy sounds 14 years old ain't no body buying a bike lol...
You are such a tool bag. What is so hard to believe that I'm a sales manager when I have ran departments for Fortune 500 companies in Dallas? I just turned 28 last Tuesday. Why wouldn't I get units at cost since I work there? I'm no troll. Send one of your Okies my way to scope me out.
 
The best way I can see to illustrate what I'm saying is a recent thread on another forum.

Does anyone else regret starting on a 600?(cbr600rr) - CBR Forum - Enthusiast forums for Honda CBR Owners

But I suppose we'll get accused of newbie endangerment for our responses. And yes, I did say I made a throttle mistake while learning on my F3. It was after fixing a flat spot that had her limited to 5.5k rpm even at WOT.
Well,
a) He had already made his mistake and was asking for help fixing it,
b) He didn't cop an attitude,
c) He didn't tell anyone to FO for suggesting he might need riding instruction.

Those will all go a long way here as well.

PhilB
 
Discussion starter · #168 ·
So... This paragraph below isn't info that is important... I'm just ranting, so read it if you are bored... I'm pretty much going to hang on to this job until my 90 days are up. After that, I'm gone. The politics from this place is insane and I know all about office politics, as I mentioned this in my previous post. This place has such a high turnover rate, it's insane. I'm about to lose my new sales girl, because of our General Manager. I'd work at this place for as long as I would want, if it weren't for this guy. I'm about to lose my new sale guy also, as soon as he finds a new job. Average sale rep lasts 3.3 months.

Anyway, nonsense. So I'm not sure if my GM will order me a bike or if I gotta take one of the showroom floor. If the green 636 is still there after June 1st, I'm going to take that one. If not, then I'm going to order a white and black one for me, preferably a 2013, as I like the look alot better with the bottom fairing being white instead of black like the 2014's.

I feel like I'm going to get flamed for this, but what are ya'lls (who aren't going to be a-holes) thoughts on a steering damper? I have read that the 600's can get wheel wobble at triple digits. Now I'm not saying that I am going to go out on the public roads and do 130mph or anything, but come on, everyone has done it and it's bound to happen at some point. It wouldn't be till I got more comfortable with the bike. Unfortunately, there aren't any twisties here in Oklahoma. I found that out riding with my new neighbor last Saturday while he was riding his Buel, which sounded really good. He also has a Benelli for his "Sunday" bike. I'm just wondering about this, so I'm not caught off guard one day, much further on down the road. *No pun intended*

- Flaming me any further is just going to get you ignored at this point. I have been respectful to you. So be helpful or be ignored. I'm not even going to read any posts any further if I see flames. Thank you
 
The first time you put too much effort into an upshift near redline in first or second youll probably get headshake. If it rustles your jimmies get a steering damper, but unless youre riding the track you probably dont need it
 
Discussion starter · #171 ·
Well,
a) He had already made his mistake and was asking for help fixing it,
b) He didn't cop an attitude,
c) He didn't tell anyone to FO for suggesting he might need riding instruction.

Those will all go a long way here as well.

PhilB
We see new riders all the time. Being a manufacturer specific forum where the manufacturer didn't begin offering less than 600cc bikes in the US until recently, we don't tell new riders they can't do it. We don't tell them "find a smaller bike". Confidence in one's ability is needed when starting to ride on a sport bike. Not crap that may scare them off a bike. And yall go way over the top on the 600 sport bike's capabilities.
 
We see new riders all the time. Being a manufacturer specific forum where the manufacturer didn't begin offering less than 600cc bikes in the US until recently, we don't tell new riders they can't do it. We don't tell them "find a smaller bike". Confidence in one's ability is needed when starting to ride on a sport bike. Not crap that may scare them off a bike. And yall go way over the top on the 600 sport bike's capabilities.
Well, you *should* tell them to find a smaller bike. I'm on several sites for my preferred brand (Ducati), and when a new guy shows up and asks which Ducati he should start on, I always say "none; Ducati doesn't make a starter bike".

Meanwhile, a 600cc sportbike is one of the highest performance vehicles on the road, exceeded only be even b***** sportbikes, and a few cars that cost about a quarter of a million or so each. If you think we "go way over the top on the 600 sport bike's capabilities", you have no idea what those capabilities really are. And yes, I know you had a couple, and now have a bike that few vehicles on the planet can equal. Lots of people have these things without ever having any idea what they are capable of.

PhilB
 
Well, you *should* tell them to find a smaller bike. I'm on several sites for my preferred brand (Ducati), and when a new guy shows up and asks which Ducati he should start on, I always say "none; Ducati doesn't make a starter bike".

Meanwhile, a 600cc sportbike is one of the highest performance vehicles on the road, exceeded only be even b***** sportbikes, and a few cars that cost about a quarter of a million or so each. If you think we "go way over the top on the 600 sport bike's capabilities", you have no idea what those capabilities really are. And yes, I know you had a couple, and now have a bike that few vehicles on the planet can equal. Lots of people have these things without ever having any idea what they are capable of.

PhilB
A viper, GTR, 5th gen Camaro Z28, or ZR-1 all cost between 70-100 grand, and will all give litre bikes a good run for their money.

This of course doesn't change much, but you don't need to spend a quarter million to beat a bike. :D
 
Well, you *should* tell them to find a smaller bike. I'm on several sites for my preferred brand (Ducati), and when a new guy shows up and asks which Ducati he should start on, I always say "none; Ducati doesn't make a starter bike".



Meanwhile, a 600cc sportbike is one of the highest performance vehicles on the road, exceeded only be even b***** sportbikes, and a few cars that cost about a quarter of a million or so each. If you think we "go way over the top on the 600 sport bike's capabilities", you have no idea what those capabilities really are. And yes, I know you had a couple, and now have a bike that few vehicles on the planet can equal. Lots of people have these things without ever having any idea what they are capable of.



PhilB

The 696 wouldn't be a terrible bike to start on. Not ideal with a decent amount of torque, but it would be relatively ok. It's borderline like the 650's.


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thoughts on steering dampeners.

steering dampeners use converting kinetic energy into heat to remove energy from an oscillating system. This increases the rate at which the system has to gain kinetic energy before it destabilizes.

if you are having problems with your front end oscillating, a steering dampener will help. If you are not having problems with your front end oscillating, it will not.
 
We see new riders all the time. Being a manufacturer specific forum where the manufacturer didn't begin offering less than 600cc bikes in the US until recently, we don't tell new riders they can't do it. We don't tell them "find a smaller bike". Confidence in one's ability is needed when starting to ride on a sport bike. Not crap that may scare them off a bike. And yall go way over the top on the 600 sport bike's capabilities.
Confidence in abilities they don't have, is why so many drunk 17-25 year old males get to demonstrate interesting and creative traumas to emts.

What beginners need is a fail safe environment. Some place where there their misplaced confidence has minimal consequences.

the best way to do this for beginners on motorcycles is:
1. Gear, this is literally a fail safe- as in when their abilities fail, it will help keep them safe.

2. a forgiving bike, this is what a beginner bike provides, and a 600cc SS does not.

3. realistic assessment of abilities. This means not telling them what they want to hear, to boost their confidence in abilities they don't have. Instead tell them what they can expect their abilities to be.

Case 1: no prior experience or minimal experience.

what they can expect their abilities to be.
capable of learning.
If they take an MSF course they should have the basics enough to be safe on the street with a beginners bike. They can use this bike to learn what kind of riding they like, what they can do, and how to stretch and improve their abilities.

Case 2: Dirt bike experience.


what they can expect their abilities to be.
Know where the controls are, and the basics of keeping the rubber side down. However much of how you ride a street bike is different from how you ride a dirt bike.

And they will not be familiar with surviving on the street, they won't have street skills yet.

This means that they can do well with one of the 650 standards, or other non aggressive bikes.

Case 3: Cruiser, touring experience.


what they can expect their abilities to be.

Know where the controls are, and the basics of keeping the rubber side down. plus knowing street survival skills.

They have the ability to start on what bike they want.

But if they want to get "good" at riding a sport-bike, that is riding the sportbike as what it was designed to be ridden, they will have a lot of learning to do.
 
I could go through all of the reasons why that comparison is absolutely stupid, but the fact that a Veyron weighs more than 2 tons should simply suffice enough.
 
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