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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I won't be flipping it up with a cop behind me. It's only for the tollway cameras. If one just so happends to pull me over, I'll already have it flipped back down. Heqll wonder if he's going blind.

As for taking backroads instead of the highway... Have you ever lived in Dallas? DFW is HUGE! You have to take the tollways if you gotta get anywhere. Plus, I'm not going to take backroads on my way to work. Say I worked at my old job in say... Plano or my old job in Frisco, when I lived in Irving. Took me an hour and 10 minutes to get there... Taking the backroads would take me over 2 hours. If I lived in Allen, it would take me 20 minutes to get to work where on the backroads, it would take me an hour.. I'll say it again. DFW is huge as there are alot of different places to get to to do different things or go to different friends' houses.

And let me throw this in there. You say highways are boring on sportbikes. I wouldn't say that exactly. George Bush Turnpike is AWESOME on any bike. It's SOOO smooth, 6 lanes wide with the far left shoulder being 1 lane wide, the right lane often times being 3 lanes wide. Keep going south on it and you"ll get into no-mans land out in Irving/Grand Prairie where there's not alot of traffic and you can REALLY open it up. I have taken my cruiser to it's max twice and each time has been on that highway. I don't do it anymore, but after 7 years, you gotta check out how fast your bike is and I don't think anyone will ever believe how fast my cruiser reached, which was VERY stable with no wobble or shake what so ever
 

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When you do get your bike...

Why not take some time & get comfortable riding/getting familiar with it.

Eye candy & go fast parts can come later..(flipper plates,slipons etc,,)
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Breaking 145mph on my Yamaha V-Star 1300 - YouTube

Looks like you hit about 140. Thats cute, my 650 would do about that. Even if you're breaking 200 on public highways, it's boring, reckless, and gives us all a bad name. Any monkey can twist a throttle. And most aren't dumb enough to post it on youtube. End rant


Sorry, but you're wrong. GPS 151 for a couple ticks.

You really come in here on my thread to bash me on something that's irrelivante to this thread entirey.
 

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You brought it up, and I was being helpful until you proved you're just another squid with a flipper plate posting top speed runs. Just remember to jump when that car changes lanes going 80 mph slower than you
 

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Not necessarily. With a correct tune you won't lose power with a full system. You will gain just about everywhere.
Uhm... No.

If adding valve overlap and free flowing exhausts were all there is to performance, no one would have bothered with variable lift and valve timing. Exhaust flappers are a very cheap way to "emulate" a change in the exhaust timing, you know, like when you're grading cams. There is no free lunch here, you either tune for high rpm performance or low rpm performance, everybody knows that, variable valve timing and lift is just a way around that, which is too heavy and bulky for sportbikes, so we have exhaust flappers.

A good tune will give you gains all over the power band? Of course, sportbikes have to meet emissions, so they are tuned for emissions, not performance, at the factory. That is why they run so badly at low rpms (they are not tested in the full rpm range) but somehow clear up at higher rpms, just look at dino charts, ridiculously lean at the first half of the powerband, rich on the higher end of the powerband. Getting a power commander and a tune will give you gains and a smoother running bike, even with the stock exhaust.

Here is a GSX-R 600 with a M4 slip-on, bike still has the exhaust flapper and the catalyzer (all dino charts stolen off M4's website):

DYNO-2011-GSXR600-Standard-Slip-On.jpg

It gained power all over the powerband thanks to the slip on? No, it did because of the tune. It still has the SET (Suzuki's exhaust flapper) and catalizer in there, but not surprisingly, a non-EPA/CARB tune makes more power. And let me point out that it NEVER makes less power than it did with the stock exhaust, it's all just "gains" in there.

Now lets look at an M4 full system:

DYNO-2011-GSXR600-Full-System.jpg

It does make more power, but the flat spot at 7,000 rpm is WORSE, and at 10,000 rpm they are making the same hp, give or take 1hp. At 7,000 rpm the full system is making less HP than both the stock and the slip on exhausts.

Good tunes help, but it really doesn't matter if you've got a perfect stoichiometric charge if all you're doing is pushing it out unburned through the exhaust. Big overlaps in valve timing rely on scavenging to aid the charge get into the cylinder at high rpm, but well, you know resonance changes throughout the rpm range, and not surprisingly, what works wonders at high rpms is not that good at lower rpms.

So you get more hp, but not in the usable range. I've rode my GSX-R in the street, and RARELY do I find myself over 10K rpms, the full system will actually give me less hp in the rpm range I spend most time in!

Give me my exhaust flapper, I can totally live in with the 500 grams it weights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
When you do get your bike...

Why not take some time & get comfortable riding/getting familiar with it.

Eye candy & go fast parts can come later..(flipper plates,slipons etc,,)
Well the reasons are, because once I leave here and get back to Dallas, I'll probably be looking at going back to college, so I won't have much funds. Yeah, I know, I'll be graduating at 33 years old... the other reason is because I can get everything at cost here at my store, that is if I get it. I'm going to be getting an exhaust when I first get it. What I meant as far as the rest of my money going towards suspension, I mean later. Not now
 

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I still stand by my comment you don't understand how fast a 600 is. If you want to impress people, ride a VFR. Then you won't look like a squid and everyone will love the V4 sound. Nobody will be impressed by a sales manager on a 600 with a loud exhaust. Your 1300 isn't fast. It's actually slightly slower than my 500 in a 1/4 mile in stock form. Youre cutting the power to weight ratio in half when you jump on a 600. You're going into this pretty cocky which is a recepie for disaster.
 
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I still stand by my comment you don't understand how fast a 600 is. If you want to impress people, ride a VFR. Then you won't look like a squid and everyone will love the V4 sound. Nobody will be impressed by a sales manager on a 600 with a loud exhaust. Your 1300 isn't fast. It's actually slightly slower than my 500 in a 1/4 mile in stock form. Youre cutting the power to weight ratio in half when you jump on a 600. You're going into this pretty cocky which is a recepie for disaster.
if he thinks the ninja 1000 is slow :lgh2 then he would be quite disappointed with the vfr.
 

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Actually, the image you're trying to create for a sales manager's ride is not what I want to see as a customer.

I'll be far more impressed by a salesman or sales manager who's riding a very very well used (and well maintained) bike with 50,000+ miles on it and no chicken strips. Obvious track prep (like safety wiring) plus a sticker or two from racetracks will also help.

He should be wearing an autographed Valentino Rossi tshirt (grab a Sharpie and do the autograph yourself; who'll know the difference?) A skinned knuckle or two, some grease under the fingernails, and being a bit hard of hearing would add a little extra credibility.

That all tells me the guy is experienced with sport bikes, knows something about how to use one, and isn't paid well enough to have a shiny new toy for which his customers foot the bill.

Reassess the image you're trying to create.
 

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Your 1300 isn't fast. It's actually slightly slower than my 500 in a 1/4 mile in stock form.
In spite of its reputation as an excellent beginner bike, a Ninja 500 is not slow. Its gearing sacrifices top end in favor of acceleration, and its power comes on high in the band. Consequently it doesn't have nearly the top speed of a 600, but it's darn near as quick from 0 to 60 if you rev the daylights out of it. Plus it's light and flickable.

All of which makes it a perfect learner sport bike. It's been popular in amateur racing for many years.

Tex, if you want to learn sport riding, you'd probably learn faster on a Ninja 500 than on any of those 600s.

Granted that a 500 isn't a chick magnet, but if you're just wanting to pick up chicks, forget a bike and buy a horse. Given your time in TX and OK, I'm surprised you don't already know that.
 

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Uhm... No.

If adding valve overlap and free flowing exhausts were all there is to performance, no one would have bothered with variable lift and valve timing. Exhaust flappers are a very cheap way to "emulate" a change in the exhaust timing, you know, like when you're grading cams. There is no free lunch here, you either tune for high rpm performance or low rpm performance, everybody knows that, variable valve timing and lift is just a way around that, which is too heavy and bulky for sportbikes, so we have exhaust flappers.

A good tune will give you gains all over the power band? Of course, sportbikes have to meet emissions, so they are tuned for emissions, not performance, at the factory. That is why they run so badly at low rpms (they are not tested in the full rpm range) but somehow clear up at higher rpms, just look at dino charts, ridiculously lean at the first half of the powerband, rich on the higher end of the powerband. Getting a power commander and a tune will give you gains and a smoother running bike, even with the stock exhaust.

Here is a GSX-R 600 with a M4 slip-on, bike still has the exhaust flapper and the catalyzer (all dino charts stolen off M4's website):

View attachment 230465

It gained power all over the powerband thanks to the slip on? No, it did because of the tune. It still has the SET (Suzuki's exhaust flapper) and catalizer in there, but not surprisingly, a non-EPA/CARB tune makes more power. And let me point out that it NEVER makes less power than it did with the stock exhaust, it's all just "gains" in there.

Now lets look at an M4 full system:

View attachment 230473

It does make more power, but the flat spot at 7,000 rpm is WORSE, and at 10,000 rpm they are making the same hp, give or take 1hp. At 7,000 rpm the full system is making less HP than both the stock and the slip on exhausts.

Good tunes help, but it really doesn't matter if you've got a perfect stoichiometric charge if all you're doing is pushing it out unburned through the exhaust. Big overlaps in valve timing rely on scavenging to aid the charge get into the cylinder at high rpm, but well, you know resonance changes throughout the rpm range, and not surprisingly, what works wonders at high rpms is not that good at lower rpms.

So you get more hp, but not in the usable range. I've rode my GSX-R in the street, and RARELY do I find myself over 10K rpms, the full system will actually give me less hp in the rpm range I spend most time in!

Give me my exhaust flapper, I can totally live in with the 500 grams it weights.

And I can show you this as well. The point is, you don't always give up low end power/torque. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.



That's a standard Arrow map as well. A custom one would probably be better still because it would get rid of the 5k dip that tends to happen on 675's. Nowhere is the run with the new exhaust lower than the stock map. At worst, it's even in several places. It's even higher at the bottom of the RPM range.
 

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Wow, sorry to hear that. I have alot of people that come in and tell me their bike got stolen. (Not necessarily in this town.) I'm going to make sure I get a 2-Way Pager Alarm. Thanks for the info on the ABS. On my cruiser, I actually never use the break. I downshift when I want to slow down. I don't think I have even hit the brake in a panic situation. I'm going to consider the ABS. ...
I would *strongly* suggest that, once you get whatever you get, you take some riding classes. That's actually a LOT more important than which bike you choose. It's clear that you need to know a lot more than you do about all of this stuff.

Also, I do strongly recommend the ABS (to anyone, not just you). It's the biggest advance in motorcycle safety since the tubeless tire.

PhilB
 

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Also, I do strongly recommend the ABS (to anyone, not just you). It's the biggest advance in motorcycle safety since the tubeless tire.

PhilB

Or maybe the helmet..... :lgh2
 

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Yeah I know the 500 isn't slow. But a 600 would dust it after 60. That'd be like me saying I know how fast a 600 feels because I've read it in a book and ride a Ninja 500 and I'm not gonna be surprised when I ride it. Someone on here said even the difference from an EX500 to an SV650 was mind boggling. My mind would probably be blown on a 600.
 

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Mango, it's a very different physical sensation, mostly due to the way our bodies react. What feels impressive to us is not so much acceleration as it is an increase in acceleration. (In physics, a change in acceleration is called "jerk." Believe it or not, we like being jerked around....)

Constant torque provides constant acceleration, whereas increasing torque gives increasing acceleration.

To accelerate quickly on the 500 requires keeping the engine high in the rev band, where torque is greatest, and shifting a couple of times going from 0 to 60. Since you're staying at approximately the same torque point, acceleration is close to constant, and you'll do 0-60 in about 3.7 seconds (light rider and fuel load).

On my 675, though, there's no need to shift at all before 60 since you don't hit the peak of the torque curve before 60; the fastest way there is to pin the throttle in first and keep it there. This means that torque is increasing the whole time the revs are rising, and hence acceleration is increasing all the way to 60. 0-60 takes about 3.3 seconds.

That's only 0.4 seconds difference, but the physical sensation (which is what we enjoy) is much, much different!

And of course, the differences become far more dramatic beyond 60.
 
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Discussion Starter · #78 · (Edited)
I still stand by my comment you don't understand how fast a 600 is. If you want to impress people, ride a VFR. Then you won't look like a squid and everyone will love the V4 sound. Nobody will be impressed by a sales manager on a 600 with a loud exhaust. Your 1300 isn't fast. It's actually slightly slower than my 500 in a 1/4 mile in stock form. Youre cutting the power to weight ratio in half when you jump on a 600. You're going into this pretty cocky which is a recepie for disaster.
And I still stand by my comments that I have made regarding me being on a cruiser for 7 years and me learning. I am now ready for a 600 SS. I have done everything right in order to step up to a 600 SS. It seems like some of you guys just don't want people on a SS at all. I have done what was advised of me and then some. I still don't get why you think that I don't understand how fast a 600 is. I have said it over and over, that I do understand how fast they are. I have been on an F4i before. Now I know they are a bit quicker now, but I still understand that aspect.

And yes.. my 1300 IS fast. It's damn fast for a cruiser. Ever been on one. A guy came in today. He rides a Harley Road Kind and has a couple other bikes. He has came in before and we plan on riding together next week. He said his friend has one and they raced a few times and he said his Road King got blown away. He said the 1300 V-Stars are pretty damn quick. I have had a lot of people say that. I'm not going to make assumptions, but I would guess you probably haven't been around one or you are use to an SS being fast. I never said my bike was fast. I said it was fast for a cruiser.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Actually, the image you're trying to create for a sales manager's ride is not what I want to see as a customer.

I'll be far more impressed by a salesman or sales manager who's riding a very very well used (and well maintained) bike with 50,000+ miles on it and no chicken strips. Obvious track prep (like safety wiring) plus a sticker or two from racetracks will also help.

He should be wearing an autographed Valentino Rossi tshirt (grab a Sharpie and do the autograph yourself; who'll know the difference?) A skinned knuckle or two, some grease under the fingernails, and being a bit hard of hearing would add a little extra credibility.

That all tells me the guy is experienced with sport bikes, knows something about how to use one, and isn't paid well enough to have a shiny new toy for which his customers foot the bill.

Reassess the image you're trying to create.

There aren't any tracks here. I'm not sure anyone is really reading my first initial post or a couple there after that, because I have to keep repeating myself and I'm getting rather tired of it. I understand that you don't need to read all 6 pages, but for people to make assumptions, is rather irritating.

I live in Enid, Oklahoma. I don't have any tracks. Our dealership is the only dealership within 100 miles. I'm getting a bike NOW, because for 1. I have been riding on a 1300 cruiser for 7 years. I have taken the forum members advice as I was originally going to get an R6. I listened. I was told to ride for 3-5 years. I rode for 7. I can get bikes AT COST. So why would I get a used bike that we only have a difference of $1000-$1500 difference in what we bought it for and what we are selling it for when I can get a brand new bike and save several thousands?

I'm not getting a bike for what customers see me in, HOWEVER, since I am getting one, I want to make sure I'm not getting things I can get flamed for while I'm at work. I'm getting a bike, because I'm ready, I want want, I have always wanted one, I worked on it, I put it off for 7 years to learn, I earned it, I deserve it, I want to work on my riding skills, I do want to go fast, but responsibly, going fast on my cruiser is not what it's made for... I went fast on it to make a video and haven't done it since then.. (I did that in 2010.) I have a perfect opportunity to get one at cost and hey, chicks dig it. So there are alot of reasons why I am getting one.
 

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^Chicks dig it? WTF? Been on these forums for years, ridden sport bikes for years, have never been approached or heard of anyone being approached because they rode a sportbike, race rep or not.

...and if you find a girl throwing her panties at you because you ride a new sportbike, which could be a Ninja 300 for all she knows, you'd better wear a 8 layers of condoms, because once you stick your dick in it just might turn to ash.
 
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