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Roadracer since '96
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Discussion Starter #1
Just when you thought you had freedom, Britain is deploying a system of "tens of thousands of cameras" throughout the country to monitor the movement of ALL vehicles. According to the article I just read these systems use license plate recognition that is already available to record your vehicles location and automatically put it into a data base that will be able to monitor your driving habits, places driven, and ultimately how long it took you to get there (how fast you were going). Of course the canned response as to it's justification is "if your not doing anything wrong, then it shouldn't be of any concern to you", gives George Orwells book '1984' a chillingly prophetic look into what is slowly becoming reality. The system is expected to progress to facial recognition and automatic dating and filing of individuals movements as well. Though the system will definately have it's benefits in law enforcement for actual crimes, the potential abuse of the system is scary at minimum.

With the 'Patriot Act' here in the US having wide sweeping control and authority over many things, I wonder how long it will be before a system similar to this one gets implemented here as well? It seems every year we progress more and more toward being a country with less and less freedom from ourselves. Motorcycles are a great expression of our freedom, and yes most riders do break posted speed limits somewhat regularly, but it's not like that automatically means you will be killed and take a school bus full of children along with you. Interpretation of what is meant by laws, and judgment by most Police if you truely are a danger, is what gives flexibility to driving laws. A system such as Britains could quickly lead to a cut and dry 'you were speeding' ticket being issued automatically by a computer, no more need for Police patrols anymore, just for apprehension reasons.

Limiters on your vehicle (or bike) that will adjust your maximum speed capability based on the road your on is not a fantasy, it's already available. The 'On Star' type systems already in use on many vehicles already have this capability to monitor your driving, unknown to many it also has the ability to control your driving as well by adjusting buffers in the engine management system to control your speed if so desired. I have been watching and waiting for these systems to become mandatory in all vehicles, including bikes, since I first read about them in the mid-90's. Implementing the speed limiters in those systems is a simple act that uses GPS and the already mapped out road system here in the US to automatically set the max speed for a particular road.

Just think, soon we could all be plugged in just like in the Matrix, wouldn't that be great? Then Big Brother could make sure that we did absolutely everything perfect! Enjoy the freedoms you now experience while riding on the streets because I'm afraid that soon enough those freedoms will be greatly controlled.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
sigintninja said:
Well, knowing this crowd, we'd probably rip it out and install a mod in it's place. :D
That would indeed work for bypassing an onboard system, but it's pretty difficult to cheat a video camera since it will know instantly if your plate is legit. In the event of not seeing a plate it would probably dispatch an Officer to your location in the event you were doin something illegal or to get you into compliance.

I would also imagine that if your vehicle was identified by a camera along the road, instantly checked by the computer, and wasn't showing your vehicle as operational according to the 'On Star' type system, then it could automatically dispatch Police. The capability of computers nowdays is scary, it's just a matter of how scary Big Brother wants to use them.
 

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yeah. exotic car rental companies,like Gotham Dream Cars,already use the vehicle monitering systems. if you go too far over the speed limit,it'll shut you down temperarily,and if you go too fast too many times,they shut it down for good,and come pick up the car.
 

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superwoman said:
I know something like this will end up happening it's far away but it's coming. It's sad but too many people are dying due to wreckless driving it sort of needs to be done.
Another "it's for the children" argument. Turning society into a Orwellian surveillance society isn't going to create safety. These traffic cameras at stoplights where I live have increased accidents, people are slamming on their brakes as soon as the light turns yellow. I had to do a 10 foot stoppie when some bitch did that in front of me in Raleigh to avoid running a yellow.

Studies have shown these traffic cameras dont decrease accidents, they are in fact a factor in increasing them....

http://www.motorists.org/issues/enforce/burkeyobeng2004.html

"The results do not support the view that red light cameras reduce crashes. Instead, we find that RLCs are associated with higher levels of many types and severity categories of crashes. (emphasis added)

An overall time trend during the study indicated that accidents are becoming less frequent, about 5 percent per year.

However, the intersections where RLCs were installed are not experiencing the same decrease. When analyzing total crashes, we find that RLCs have a statistically significant (p<0.001) and large (40% increase) effect on accident rates.

In addition, RLCs have a statistically significant, positive impact on rear-end accidents, sideswipes, and accidents involving cars turning left (traveling on the same roadway). "
 

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Discussion Starter #8
95FZR*1000* said:
yeah. exotic car rental companies,like Gotham Dream Cars,already use the vehicle monitering systems. if you go too far over the speed limit,it'll shut you down temperarily,and if you go too fast too many times,they shut it down for good,and come pick up the car.
A guy at work had an article about some guy that rented a car, drove some amount of distance, then returned to the rental compay to find a reciept showing that his credit card had been charged something like $1000+ due to him speeding! Turned out that in the fine print of the rental agreement it said that if you went over a certain speed you would be charged a monetary fine per minute above that speed. That vehicle had an 'On Star' like unit which narked on him before he ever got back to the rental company. From what that article said a number of the rental companies are starting to put these on their fleets of vehicles, what it also does is tracks the use of the vehicle as well.
 

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BTW, those GPS systems can be easily defeated. If you can find the GPS antenna, just case the thing in aluminum, and there is no way the signal can be sent. Now if the car records the driving data in an internal database, that's a different matter. You would need to find a way to remove the system from the car so that it couldn't be used against you. This is a huge argument for not buying anymore cars new. Stick with the old ones. Also, buying a new car is likely to get you screwed in the long run, if the car breaks, the way things are going with automakers refusing to share ECM program codes with independent auto mechanics, not only will you not be able to fix the car yourself, neither will your mechanic. You will be forced to take your car to the auto dealership for a royal ass raping.

Don't buy any new motorcycles or cars with that shit on it. Just not worth it.
 

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bugeyed said:
Don't buy any new motorcycles or cars with that shit on it. Just not worth it.
What do you do after it becomes mandate for ALL new cars and bikes to have it?
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
bugeyed said:
Also, buying a new car is likely to get you screwed in the long run, if the car breaks, the way things are going with automakers refusing to share ECM program codes with independent auto mechanics, not only will you not be able to fix the car yourself, neither will your mechanic. You will be forced to take your car to the auto dealership for a royal ass raping.
The automakers have been wanting to go to a 'locked hood' policy for some time now, the problem is the need to get to some things under the hood by the owner. The option they are really pushing is a locking shroud which covers the engine and does not allow the owner to do anything to the engine themself, including change the oil! The owner could add oil and check it's level, but not change it themself. Of course the auto makers are claiming it's for environmental reasons and recycling the oil and filter (*cough* *cough* bullshit *cough*)!

I have heard similar things for motorcycles as well, like sealed engines that can't be opened without special keys/tools, that includes being able to change the exhaust and computer.
 

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When I bought my honda accord new in 99 (all new design) i went to go get an airfilter for it. Couldn't find the damn thing anywhere. NO ONE carried it. Turned out that Honda never released the design, patent, whatever to FRAM, etc to be made. It took almost 3yrs for me to find one in a store.
 

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Actually, Britain isn't deploying 'tens of thousands of cameras' to monitor the movement of all vehicles. I gues what you read is a journalist jumping to conclusions as usual.

What happens is that a civil servant comes up with an idea that 'may' be possible with current and upcoming technology, Ministers think it might be a 'good idea' and then they 'leak' the idea and sit back to see what the reaction is, and that's the case with 'vehicle recognition' cameras.

We've had speed cameras here for a few years now, you go through a camera higher than the legal speed (posted for that road) and you get a nip (notice of intended prosecution) which is usually 3 points on your licence and a fine.

Now speed cameras are universally unpopular, initially they were intended for 'danger black spots' to reduce accidents, eg near schools, but then they were put on perfectly safe roads, and hidden, so quickly became viewed as 'revenue earners' for the local constabulary.

Where we are now is that a lot of cameras are actually being removed because they are obviously 'not' on a dangerous road, and also they now have to be highly visible, not hidden.

Personally I 'sort of agree' with the vehicle recognition cameras if it identifies drivers who drive without insurance/road tax or licence.

...and GSXR_RACER_MIKE dude, change the colour of your posts willya, light grey on white is not easy to read.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
bomma said:
Actually, Britain isn't deploying 'tens of thousands of cameras' to monitor the movement of all vehicles. I gues what you read is a journalist jumping to conclusions as usual.
Here is a link to the original story and related stories within it: Article . I didn't originally include the link due to how slow that site loads, figured I would save those without fast connections the frustration.

bomma said:
...and GSXR_RACER_MIKE dude, change the colour of your posts willya, light grey on white is not easy to read.
I had totally forgot that there were other color schemes you can use for this site, I have used the black with blue background since I first started coming here to this site, the silver works well on that background. Time for a new color. :)
 

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not to change the subject of the post back to cars and service, but i was mechanic at a local dodge dealership here and the new magnums and chargers use a special dipstick only the dealer has to check automatic transmission fluid levels. The dipstick tube just has twist cork in the end. pretty soon other things will be made that way as well, its true.
 

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GSXR RACER MIKE said:
Here is a link to the original story and related stories within it: Article . I didn't originally include the link due to how slow that site loads, figured I would save those without fast connections the frustration.
I think the idea is that they will convert current cameras to 'vehicle recognition' cameras. If it gets vehicles that aren't insured or drivers who are banned then I 'kindof' agree.

But at the moment it's just an idea, I can't see that there's any technology available that could track and log all journeys as the article suggested, and as I mentioned earlier, speed cameras are now being removed on some roads because they are blatently 'revenue earners' as opposed to 'safety' devices.

We don't just lay down and take this shit y'know.
:)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
bomma said:
....But at the moment it's just an idea, I can't see that there's any technology available that could track and log all journeys as the article suggested...
Back in the mid/late 90's Intel built a computer for the US government that was able to collect 6 pages of data for EVERY PERSON on the entire planet - every second! That was technology that is now approaching 10 years old, the capability of computers currently is far superior and their storage capacity keeps getting b***** and b***** in smaller and smaller storage units. Collecting the data needed (as described in that article) would be minimal and would require minimal storage space per individual by todays standards. Since license plate, and even facial recognition, is no longer a thing of fantasy it's just a matter of implementation. For a computer today to instantly record a license plate, file it, and time stamp it is nothing difficult. To create a path driven between cameras would also be simple for a computer as well. As far as facial recognition goes they already take everyones picture digitally when they get their drivers license here in the US, using facial recognition software with those images is just a matter of doing it, not developing any software.

Not meant as an insult, but I think your grossly underestimating the technology that is readily available.
 

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Yes i feel some people are oblivious to what is really out there for us/people to use. You must realize the government can not leak things to us. What you need to do is go back 50 plus yrs and see what people were talking about as fantasy and see how much is being used today.

Ignorance is bliss
 

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Discussion Starter #20
bassholic said:
Yes i feel some people are oblivious to what is really out there for us/people to use. You must realize the government can not leak things to us. What you need to do is go back 50 plus yrs and see what people were talking about as fantasy and see how much is being used today.

Ignorance is bliss
Remember a few years back at that NFL football game down in Florida where they used facial recognition to nab people attending the game that had warrents and such? The security cameras at the stadium were used in conjunction with the recognition software and it automatically connected faces with wanted fellons. Not that it was a bad thing to catch them, just an example of it already being usable today.
 
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