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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
That the BT-023 is not "safe" for track use. Someone from zx6r.com was curious about cold PSI for a 23 at a track day so he called Bridgestone. :lgh2

This is the PM he sent me about the convo..

When I first called I started out by saying this is actually for a friend and not for me but that my friend was running bt-023s on his 636 and we wanted some expert advice on starting pressure. It's hard to toe on this phone so I'll just make it short and sweet and he said he wouldn't ever run 023s on a 636 and definitely would not run them on the track and so he wouldn't even entertain the question of starting pressures. He asked me if my friend valued his bike and that he would fully expect traction issues with that tire on the track, especially on a hot day. He said the track is about as far as you can get from what that tire was designed for and would even recommend tires from other manufacturers before recommending that tire. He said my friend would be far better off running take offs. Please understand I was not fishing for our even expecting that kind of response. I urge you to contact him if you plan on running those tires again.
Thoughts SBN?
 

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I have a hard time believing you will get an engineer when calling Bridgestone unless you had a direct number from an ongoing relationship. Sure sounds like he cold called. It wouldn't surprise me if lawyers had a hand in the acceptable responses from the call center.

I don't know anything about tires though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
To be fair he emailed Bridgestone first and this is the reply that he got -

Hello xxxx,

Please give me a call.

Regards,


T.J. Tennent
Engineering Manager, Firestone Consumer Products, Government Products
Bridgestone Americas
Nashville, TN
615-937-3200*(Office)
615-493-0458*(Fax)
 

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The question is not "can you" run BT023's on the track, any tire good enough for street use surely can go be ridden on the track.

The question really is; Why would you want to? What pace do you expect to be running?
I mean as stated above, sure you can run them or any tire for that matter on a track, I can even see some benefit to running something not so sticky-as then you can find and play with the limits of traction at a bit lessor speed and learn quite a bit....but that is a fine line (and for very advanced riders) and one to be walked carefully as these perhaps have a less predictable let go edge, or perhaps some other issue when ridden to the limits of what they were designed to encounter or beyond.

I have seen people run them at the local track here and run about 15 seconds off a "fast" pace, but then again they were on sport touring bikes with those sport touring tires, so a Concours 1400 is what- 700+ pounds, a VFR800 is what 630 pounds....that is alot more weight and theoretically alot more strain on those tires than a 415 pound sportbike is going to throw at them...of course perhaps the sportbike has 60* plus lean angle capabilities while the sport tourers are dragging hard parts prior to 50*.

As far as a cold starting pressure.........unless you are already running super fast A group times and looking to knock off another 1/2 second or 1/4 second or 1/8 second a few pounds of air pressure is going to do next to nothing for you but wear out the tires sooner. Or if you are super slow, I suppose it may allow them to gain some more temp for some more theoritical traction-but if you are that slow you clearly don't need the extra traction.

I run A group lap times and run the same tires (whatever I happen to have on my bike at the time) I ride on the street and leave my pressures at the same pressure I run on the street. So many people sit and fuss and worry about tire pressures needlessly. Set them and forget them! I already know that my tires are good, and I already know they gain about 5% while just cruising and about 12% air pressure when I am on the "good roads", so on the track perhaps they are gaining 15%, so what....I am there to improve my riding not try and set some lap record. If I wanted to run at some track record times I would change to track only tires.
I have no doubt the "friend" on the 636 with sport touring tires isn't a good enough rider to outride those BT023's in any conditions with them set at the recommended pressure for his bike.

OP you would have been better off to simply ask what air pressure is recommend for those tires on that bike ridden on the street where you live. Set them at that and go ride at the track without changing them. Unless you have some track specific tire that requires warmers and is designed to be started at 23/29 cold or whatever your flavor of the day recommends, then run the tires at the pressures recommended for the use they are recommended for~ even when you go the track. A 20 minute session at moderate pace isn't going to ruin the tire or put you outriding them most likely. Sure it won't be "ideal" but I bet suspension set up on that 636 isn't either, I bet the riders body position and throttle control isn't "ideal" either.

If you are outriding the capbilities of those or any street tire on the track it isn't time for a air pressure change. It is time to get new tires that are designed more for track use or exclusively for track use

Of course these are my opinions and decades of knowledge. You don't have to agree, and I don't even care if you don't. Ride at your own peril.
 

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I wouldn't recommend bt-023s for the track either (especially for newb). AT the very least use older bt-016s, or the new s20. Bt-003 is actually a much better choice however, if you are putting down decent lap times I recommend the R10's, I have about 15 sets of take offs of R10's if anyone wants to try some freebies. If you want insane grip get the slicks. I actually recommend using a stickier tire than you will need at the track (cheap insurance). New riders will make mistakes when pushing their bike on the track, if you make a mistake pushing a bt-023, you are going to crash. If you make the same mistake pushing the race tire, chances are it will have excess grip available and you can keep it on two wheels.
 

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It sounds to me like TJ is an engineer who understands the design requirements for different tires and is making a suggestion that your friend should use a tire for its intended purpose. I'm sure TJ would also be against using car tires on a Goldwing. While I'm sure that you can get away with both, it's not exactly the ideal choice.
 

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what do I say? that guy is an idiot for even entertaining the idea to use a touring tire at the track. unless he plans on putting around the track at a street pace. in which case he needs to find something else to do. he'll be holding everyone else up.
if I were a control rider and see someone that can't keep up a elevated pace then I'd pull them off the track for safety reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Interesting. What do you guys think about this? -

Haslam endorsement for Bridgestone BT-023 - Product News - Visordown

Haslam gave the BT-023 a shake-down on the track, his verdict: "The BT-023 is a touring tyre with the performance of a sports tyre. For a sports touring tyre the performance is incredible. I give the BT- 023 ten out of ten and will definitely be fitting this model to the bikes at my school."
and he does in fact fit his school race bikes with Bridgestone ST tires. But I think now they're using T30's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh and btw I'm the "idiot" that used a 023 on the track. Well at least on the rear. Front is an S20. My 023 has 3k knee-hovering an inch off the ground street miles on it.

It was my first track day and by the end of the day I was running mid to low B group pace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfdRTtpEOs

The back did step out in the first session so the "tire expert" there told me to drop 2 PSI. I guess because of the heat and track surface everyone was having traction issues no matter the tire.
 

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Sounds like your mind is made up. I'm not sure why you're looking for someone to support your decision...

If you ask me, I would not use a performance front and touring rear. Lowsides are way more comfy than highsides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sounds like your mind is made up. I'm not sure why you're looking for someone to support your decision...

If you ask me, I would not use a performance front and touring rear. Lowsides are way more comfy than highsides.
I'm not looking for anything. I just thought it was funny. I've had this 023 on since last season and its solid. I'll be switching to the T30 when this one is done.

If I somehow manage to start doing more than 2 or 3 TD's a year I'll consider swapping tires at the track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here's a video, from Bridgestone, that completely contradicts what that "engineer" said... lol.

 

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aren't tire pressures printed on the side of the tire?
if you are fast enough that you need to ask about tire pressure you should be running race tires and asking the track vendor.

if you are not stop asking stupid i want to look smart questions and go ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
aren't tire pressures printed on the side of the tire?
if you are fast enough that you need to ask about tire pressure you should be running race tires and asking the track vendor.

if you are not stop asking stupid i want to look smart questions and go ride.
Hmm, SBN has weird views on things sometimes. Around here it's very common to drop PSI for a track day regardless of skill or tire make and model.
 

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aren't tire pressures printed on the side of the tire?
if you are fast enough that you need to ask about tire pressure you should be running race tires and asking the track vendor.

if you are not stop asking stupid i want to look smart questions and go ride.
No. Max load ratings are printed on the side of the tire. Those correspond with a pressure for that rating, not a recommended pressure for other loading or conditions.

KeS
 
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