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This. This right here is the problem. Not about safety. Not even about enforcing the law. The boss says "go extort some people who aren't actually harming anyone every shift", and off they go, dutifully performing random injustices upon the people. And then wonder why those people have a low opinion of law enforcement.

PhilB
I understand what you're getting at, actual harm being done versus the need to cite for a committed traffic violation. The problem truly is their boss is getting pressure from their boss, and his boss from that boss and so on and so on. The traffic cops aren't dumb (well the handful I rode with weren't) and they knew the score. But their job is to enforce traffic laws. And the easiest way to "show" that they were doing it with a paper trail is via tickets. So they would do the least amount of bullshit traffic violations they could possibly do without getting hassled by their superior and go on to do in their mind "real work" by everyone else's standards.

And I'm not naive I'm quite sure there's sadists aplenty with badges who love ruining others days and wasting peoples time by handing out tickets which are IMO bullshit (5-10mph over posted limit).

edit - The point being however is that traffic makes up a small percentage of LE as a whole. It truly does. They're merely the most visible.
 

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I understand what you're getting at, actual harm being done versus the need to cite for a committed traffic violation. The problem truly is their boss is getting pressure from their boss, and his boss from that boss and so on and so on. The traffic cops aren't dumb (well the handful I rode with weren't) and they knew the score. But their job is to enforce traffic laws. And the easiest way to "show" that they were doing it with a paper trail is via tickets. So they would do the least amount of bullshit traffic violations they could possibly do without getting hassled by their superior and go on to do in their mind "real work" by everyone else's standards.

And I'm not naive I'm quite sure there's sadists aplenty with badges who love ruining others days and wasting peoples time by handing out tickets which are IMO bullshit (5-10mph over posted limit).

edit - The point being however is that traffic makes up a small percentage of LE as a whole. It truly does. They're merely the most visible.
The points are that:

(a) Even if it is a small percentage of LE as a whole, that system victimizes thousands of people every day in this country, who are just going about their daily business in a reasonable manner, and

(b) This is the most common mode of interaction between the ordinary citizen and the police, which means that the average Joe does not experience the cops as being on the side of the average Joe; he experiences the cops as being the enemy.

Again, and they wonder why people don't generally like or trust cops. The police should be the enemy of the criminal, of those who choose to harm others, and should be the friend of the ordinary citizen. But the reality is that criminals are not the only ones who experience the police as something to be avoided, as something not beneficial to going about one's business in peace and safety. We ALL have that experience, and it's mostly about traffic enforcement.

PhilB
 

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If we're talking about excessive speeding (over 120mph let's say..), you can effectively deter that is to impound the motorcycle or car at the time the ticket is issued. If the driver is convicted and has prior offenses, he/she forfeits the vehicle. That can mean anything from simply out of his bike/car to being saddled with paying off the loan for a bike or car they no longer have.

Why should my property be stolen for going, say, 120 mph?

People do that legally in Germany everyday, so don't tell me it's so dangerous

Precrime? For what *might* have happened??
 

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Good point. That is why there has been about push in "customer servics" that pase few years. Personally I don't like it but I do understand the need for it. Unfortunately this vocation has been flooded with people that don't need a badge or any position of authority. That being said a lot of smaller agencies work the "good ole boy" system and hire all their friends. That is why when officers get arrested their is a number of them not just two or three.

In my short 5 years in the one thing I have noticed is that people in law enforcement that don't need to be in law enforcement are shown that door quickly.
Also. I know this is just me, so please don't think I speak for everyone with a badge but I hand out plenty more warnings (verbal and written) then I do actual tickets. Prob 10/1 ratio. Most people that get a ticket end up with one because that talk their way into one or are doing something so ridiculous that I can't let it slide. (60+ in a 45 with someone on top of the car!) And I firmly believe that I am justified in taking that step.


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yes to us 300 bucks a pop for a speeding ticket sounds like a lot (and it is) consider the actual cost involved. You have the court time of the officer, the judge, the bailiff, the courthouse itself, the actual overhead of that ticket and the cost to process it usually is a wash.
you don't need a judge, bailiff or courthouse when someone simply pays the fine listed on the computer generated courtesy notice, which im sure you realize the vast majority of people do. The only time the ticket cost comes close to the money generated is when people like me fight them instead of bending over and just taking it.

I do my best to make sure any ticket written to me costs the court as much as possible, but most people don't wanna spend their time and just pay the fine. If they really didn't earn money do you really think all those bosses would be leaning on all those cops to write tickets? Please. :eek:nfloor
 

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I for one pull over and take the ticket when an officer tries to pull me over. The last time was last weekend and he got me doing 97 in a 65. It was a back road in Oklahoma and I knew I was going to be going fast so I was in my full leathers and all. He even commented on me having all my gear on. If he would have gotten me 2 minutes earlier he would have gotten me going MUCH faster. He was the first car I came across in about 30 miles. He gave me a ticket for 85 in a 65 and I was on my way. I also got stopped going back home but I seen him and slowed enough to where I was only clocked at 85 in a 60.... he gave me a warning.

In both of those cases I guess I would have been put to death..... if that was the law I would simply not stop.
 

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spike strips do not blow out tires. they are hollow and break off in the tire gradually letting the air out. now knowing how spike strips work they're not the reason he crashed.
Two flat tires on a motorcycle, no matter HOW slowly they go flat, will UNDOUBTEDLY cause a wreck at triple digit or near triple digit speeds.

The front tire, which is vital to stability, will go flat first (and very quickly, might I add) as it has a lot less air volume than the rear and much less air volume than a car tire.

if he hit the strip and crashed it was because he was an inexperienced rider. oh and you know what....he got what he deserved? 150 on public roads.....just sayin.
... And in other news, I now have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever.
 

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Why should my property be stolen for going, say, 120 mph?

People do that legally in Germany everyday, so don't tell me it's so dangerous

Precrime? For what *might* have happened??
Anyone that thinks speeding tickets are more then tax collecting needs to stop drinking the proverbial political juice, especially when it comes to motorcycles.
 

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The points are that:

(a) Even if it is a small percentage of LE as a whole, that system victimizes thousands of people every day in this country, who are just going about their daily business in a reasonable manner, and

(b) This is the most common mode of interaction between the ordinary citizen and the police, which means that the average Joe does not experience the cops as being on the side of the average Joe; he experiences the cops as being the enemy.

Again, and they wonder why people don't generally like or trust cops. The police should be the enemy of the criminal, of those who choose to harm others, and should be the friend of the ordinary citizen. But the reality is that criminals are not the only ones who experience the police as something to be avoided, as something not beneficial to going about one's business in peace and safety. We ALL have that experience, and it's mostly about traffic enforcement.

PhilB
a - depends on the circumstance. I've been the victim of going quite factually the speed limit and being written up for going 15+ over which is just horseshit. And there's nothing you can do about it, and it's beyond frustrating so I can empathize. And on the other hand there's people that I've seen firsthand blow through stops or red lights and completely deny they did anything wrong when they knew full well they were in the wrong. Not all people who break a simple traffic infraction are victims IMO.

b - Makes one wonder if there should be 2 quite visually notable divisions of all law enforcement, separate the traffic from the crimes. Wonder if police relations would improve then. Just a thought.

you don't need a judge, bailiff or courthouse when someone simply pays the fine listed on the computer generated courtesy notice, which im sure you realize the vast majority of people do. The only time the ticket cost comes close to the money generated is when people like me fight them instead of bending over and just taking it.

I do my best to make sure any ticket written to me costs the court as much as possible, but most people don't wanna spend their time and just pay the fine. If they really didn't earn money do you really think all those bosses would be leaning on all those cops to write tickets? Please. :eek:nfloor
To be quite frank it's been years since I've gotten a ticket and I fought every last one of them no matter the time involved. I figure if they inconvenience me then I should ensure that they are as well and I get my moneys worth out of paying a fine if I have to. I never even considered that people just don't fight the ticket and blindly pay it. :eek:
 

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I never complain when I get a ticket, there have been thousands of times I've been well over the limit and never got caught. Hell the last ticket I rec'd was about 4.5 yrs ago, did the deferred adjudication thing and that was the end of it. All the county wanted was a few bucks to keep it off my record.
 

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To be quite frank it's been years since I've gotten a ticket and I fought every last one of them no matter the time involved. I figure if they inconvenience me then I should ensure that they are as well and I get my moneys worth out of paying a fine if I have to. I never even considered that people just don't fight the ticket and blindly pay it. :eek:
Here you have To pay the ticket first if you want to fight it. They call it bail, and I think its bullshit, but that's the way it is. Most people are mostly worried about their insurance going up so they would rather just pay the fine, pay extra for traffic school and be done, rather than pay take the time to fight then hope they win and get a refund 2 months later. Plus having to do traffic school anyway if they lose. Either way they have to come up with the money up front. Its easier to just be done, and the court knows this.
 

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To be quite frank it's been years since I've gotten a ticket and I fought every last one of them no matter the time involved. I figure if they inconvenience me then I should ensure that they are as well and I get my moneys worth out of paying a fine if I have to. I never even considered that people just don't fight the ticket and blindly pay it. :eek:
They win even harder when you do that. Cop gets overtime usually paid for way more than the time it takes, and if he doesn't feel like going and getting the over time no big deal he wont get in trouble for not showing. my local court and I assume yours as well is funded 100% from court fees, if costs go up the fees go up. if they have to hire more people all the better because then those in charge get paid more for managing more people.
 

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the one I got would be retarded to fight. 91 in a 65 reduced to 75 in a 65. No way I could win so I just paid the fine. Plus the court date was when I was in school.
 

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a - depends on the circumstance. I've been the victim of going quite factually the speed limit and being written up for going 15+ over which is just horseshit. And there's nothing you can do about it, and it's beyond frustrating so I can empathize. And on the other hand there's people that I've seen firsthand blow through stops or red lights and completely deny they did anything wrong when they knew full well they were in the wrong. Not all people who break a simple traffic infraction are victims IMO. ...
I didn't say no one ever deserves a ticket, or that everyone is just a victim of the system. But at the other end, most people are not driving dangerously when they get a ticket. And the whole setup is adversarial between the police and the people, which is not good for either the police or the people.

PhilB
 
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I was pulled over once for going 80 in a 55, when I knew damn well I had the speedo pegged at 60 because I KNEW the state police like to sit at this particular spot, so I try to not speed through there.

If I were not a cop, I doubt they would have just let me go, and I'd be fighting a BS ticket with no way to prove my side.
 

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I was pulled over for going 35 I'm a 35. Cop insisted it was a 25mph zone. Even though we passed literally 5 signs indicating 35 before he pulled me over.
 

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If I were not a cop, I doubt they would have just let me go, and I'd be fighting a BS ticket with no way to prove my side.
Ya know it doesn't make the general public respect cops more when we hear that there is a double standard for who gets a ticket, and cops get a pass. Just sayin
 

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I got pulled over by a nut once who said I ran a red light, he nearly caused a crash trying to get to me. The light was green and turned yellow after I was already in the middle of the intersection, I was clear of the intersection before it ever turned red. He insisted I ran the light and demanded my ID. Luckily I was on my way to work and had my uniform on under my gear, once he saw that he apologized and let me go.

He probably just wanted to check the VIN on my bike and what not, but it still pissed me off.

Traffic tickets are a total racket at this point. The state legislature jacked up the fees way high recently to help close a budget shortfall. The fine is supposed to be a deterrent and to teach people, not to be used as a tax to raise funds. It takes a lot to get me to write one these days since what was a $70 fine 3 years ago is now a $130 fine.

As for the original post about spike strips, both PDs I have worked for don't even allow Officers to chase motorcycles, too high a chance of someone getting killed. I'm also not willing to take the risk to my safety and my liability for a traffic violation.

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Ya know it doesn't make the general public respect cops more when we hear that there is a double standard for who gets a ticket, and cops get a pass. Just sayin
Really, that's the first you're hearing of this? Here's another shocker for you, the cashier at Best Buy gets a discount.

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