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Thats bs, didnt watch the video but under the nightengale law, a nurse can give cpr/care to anyone and not be prosecuted, unless the person re3fused help and was coherent.
 

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I dont blame them. Firstly the old and infirm are not the ones you are going to save with cpr. The chances of that woman ever leaving the hospital if they even made it there before calling it are pretty slim. Secondly people are assholes and always want to get paid when a family member dies even if the care given was good. I would guess even if they had saved her there is a 50/50 shot they are getting sued for cracking a rib while doing cpr and another 10% chance that the family of someone else at the facility is going to sue because they think the nurse should have been doing something to take care of their family member while she was saving the other woman.
She was on the clock her job is act in the best interest of her employer and that is what she did, had she gone against policy i would have fired her.

Thats bs, didnt watch the video but under the nightengale law, a nurse can give cpr/care to anyone and not be prosecuted, unless the person re3fused help and was coherent.
That doesn't mean they can't still sue you or your employer.
 

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I'd say it's a grey area. If it's a strictly written policy, I don't blame the home. As other people have noted, should any one thing go wrong, the family of the decease can sue like a mother fuck.

A few years ago, my ex's dad and his girlfriend were staying with us for a week to visit. The dad's girlfriend had a stroke and instead of calling 911, my ex got her to the car and rushed her to the hospital which was literally a 1 minute drive up the hill from our apartment. It took them less time to get to the hospital, then it would have taken for an ambulance or firetruck to get there, assess the situation, load her up, and get her there. Long story short, she ended up paralyzed on her left side, lost full control of her vocal capabilities, essentially became a vegetable, and died a few months later. The family tried to blame my ex for not calling 911 and threatened a wrongful death suit for awhile. Maybe it would have been better if she'd called 911 first, she might have died right there on the spot, and there would have been no fingers to point (this situation also somewhat contributed to us breaking up because of the stress of her dad living with us for 4 months with little or no extra financial support)

It sucks, sure, but where liabilities fall, it was probably a smart move.
 

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Looks like a case of you get what you are paying for.

According to the article, the same owner also operate a "skilled nursing facility and assisted living facility" next door. It is safe to assume that the "assisted" facility is much more expensive than the "independent living" facility where this old woman was from.

Liability aside, it makes good business sense for the owner to refuse to offer assistance, otherwise people would stop paying for the more expensive facility.
 

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one thinks of Spiderman at the wrestling match, watching the robber run by, knowing he could do something, but doesn't.............
 

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Skid Mark
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the sad truth is that CPR is more for keeping first responders busy and not freaking out than it is for actually saving lives.

the good news is that an AED (automatic external defibrillator) greatly increases your odds of survival when used within the first few minutes but studies have apparently shown that less than 8% of those who were given CPR survived more than 7 days. of that number, only about 3% had what doctors refer to as "acceptable quality of life" 30 days afterwards. sure, it's a chance, but a very slim one.

i actually had a co-worker declare to us that if she were to collapse, hook her to the AED, call 911 and DO NOT perform any type of CPR. she felt that the chances, at that point, were way too low to even bother trying...


s3aturnr
 

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they said basically the same thing at my H2S course (naturally, not the first aid/cpr course.

CPR is not that great of a practice, and it usually doesn't work. if it does work, it usually results in other injuries. now, living and ending up with a cracked rib, that's whatever. but that's no guarantee.
 

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HEHATEME
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First from a legal standpoint the nurse did exactly as she should have. How many times do you see workers fired for fighting an intruder at a business because company policy says "do stupid act number one and allow half your coworkers to be killed before calling 911"

Second there have been plenty of cases where people respond and attempt life saving steps only to be sued by the injured party or the deceased family for possibly causing more harm than good. Also as others have said CPR is only useful in cases where the person was likely to survive in the first place. Generally when someone is in a state that they have a very low chance of survival cpr is pointless. Done incorrectly it can cause other injuries like broken ribs, collapsed lungs, bruising etc.

Its no a hospital. I have worked at an assisted living facility and we were told not to render medical aid to anyone for those very reasons. It wouldn't matter if you were a surgeon, God, the Pope or anyone else. That company provides a certain service and medical aid is NOT one of those. They dispense medicine and follow pre-set medical advice or standards. If that nurse provided cpr and broke said old ladies rib and it subsequently punctured her lung you can bet the family would have tried to place blame on the nurse and the company even if it was 99% chance she would have died anyway. In the game of torts all you need is a toe in the door and you have a lawsuit. It doesn't matter if the plaintiff wins because that company now has to get their legal team into full gear planning for the potential for a lengthy trial which will cost them an enormous sum whilst the plaintiff doesn't really have to do anything but rely on the average stupid american juror who is overly emotional and is lacks the ability to follow simple instructions given to every jury.
 
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^ +1 The only way this could have had a different outcome is if these places were required by law to have at least 1 qualified person on hand at all times to deliver the care in need. Unfortunately our society is a get rich quick society and these are the types of situations where the "unfortunate" get fortunate really fast with an easy lawsuit.
 

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Just for the record, an AED is not used on someone who dosent have a heartbeat.

And I would assume that residents and their families are aware of the no CPR policy at this paticular facility long before they agree to live there. So it's more shocking that people would be shocked about something they knew would happen :confused:
 

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I didn't watch the video, and I haven't seen it discussed here - did the old lady have a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order? Aside from the issues mentioned above, this would also be a reason to not perform CPR.
 

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I didn't watch the video, and I haven't seen it discussed here - did the old lady have a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order? Aside from the issues mentioned above, this would also be a reason to not perform CPR.
I'm yet to hear mention of a DNR anywhere in the media.
 

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Just for the record, an AED is not used on someone who dosent have a heartbeat.

And I would assume that residents and their families are aware of the no CPR policy at this paticular facility long before they agree to live there. So it's more shocking that people would be shocked about something they knew would happen :confused:
I'm shocked they didn't have an AED nearby.

While it's true that an AED is not designed for someone who has 'flat-lined' (asystole), it does a remarkable job if there is any cardiac activity present at all. AEDs can be successfully used when there is 'pulseless ventricular tachycardia' (no pulse V-Tach).
Often times, it can be hard to determine with a simple hands on pulse check if there is cardiac activity or not. Use the damn AED.
 

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Not surprised either. I'm a cop and we're told not to render any medical care to anyone. The state requires us to learn in order to become certified as cops, but once the MRT certification expires my department does not have us get renewed due to liability issues. They don't give us AEDs, masks or anything else. Can't say I mind as I was never very good at that stuff.

We had a stabbing a few days ago where a guy got stuck 8 times in his house. It was just called in as a fight so medics weren't dispatched until after police arrived and saw what was going on. Cops showed up and couldn't touch him since we don't even have first aid kits. He bled out while waiting for medics to show up and died shortly after they arrived. Who knows if they could have saved him, but this is the reality of America today, nobody wants liability for anything.

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Its already kinda been said but just to give some more clarity CPR isnt really a life-saving action. CPR helps circulate the blood so that the brain and other vital organs can get oxygen when the heart is not pumping. The life saving usually comes from fixing the thing that caused the cardiac arrest, such as giving narcan(a drug that counteracts opiates) to a heroin o.d. patient whos gone into full arrest. Pretty much CPR just helps less damage be done while the underlying problem is fixed. If the underlying problem is being old....

An AED is used when the heart is electrically working but not mechanically working. The heart is beating in a way that blood isnt actually being circulated. An AED only works in 2 heart rhythms. 1. V-tac- pretty much the hearts trying to beat so fast that it isnt pushing out any blood. 2. V-fib- The hearts just kinda jiggling like a bowl of jello.
What an AED does is shocks the heart to stop it, so it can start working correctly again. Kinda like rebooting a computer. Hope that helps people who dont really know and are confused by this

I personally think the nurse was in the right here. She was following the company policy. I would guess that when the family moved grandma into the facility they were informed of the policy at some point. And from what I read here the family seems to be okay with how it all went.

And for the record, like people have said, if good CPR is being given, ribs are gonna get broken. Especially on an older person. And breaking ribs is just as gross as it sounds haha
 
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