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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello guys,

New rider to the forum, but not to riding. :)

I thought i wanted to give you a little background about myself before asking my question. I started riding last year, i went through the MFC class and got my license through there. It was fun experience and i was happy that i did it.

Shortly after that, i ended up picking Ninja 250 as i felt it was good starting bike and it was for me. I loved the bike, easy to ride, very good handling and light and most of all it was fun to ride. At about 1000 miles on the bike, i went down and totaled the bike. It was my mistake, i take full responsiblity for it. I got to comfortable on the bike and pushed it outside my skill. I ended up going down on a highway ramp, the ramp had a sharp turn, and when i entered the turn, i press on the gas and my back tire spined out. I ended up falling of the bike at that point and sliding in the ramp wall, my bike first and then myself. Lucky i had all my gear on me, leather pants, knee protection, boots, helmet, leather jacket, glows and walked away with bruised knees, and couple of stitches on my lip. (BTW i allays wear my full gear and i am glad i did when i went down)

It was an eye opener and i realized what it means when the experience riders say "dont ridee outside your skill". When i went down in the ramp, i was not trying to speed, it was lack of experience on my part that i did not judge what the appropriate speed was for that turn. It was stupid i should have taken the turn slower.

I want to get back to riding this season, and now i have to decide what to get for my second bike. The first time around, the choice was easy for me getting the 250, but now i feel that i would be ok on 600?

I am not a pro but i would not say that i am absolute beginner, on my 250 i was going on rides with twists couple of times with other riders, traffice/highway riding.
1000 miles is not a lot i understand that, but i felt on 250 very comfortable in the sense that shifting gears came natural without thinking about it, counter steering was also second nature for me. I am not absolute beginner where i am just learning how to ride.

Can you give me some feedback, especially if you have been in similar situation, where to go from here? Should i buy another 250 and pickup where i left of or 600 with my experience?

Thanks for your help.
 

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I agree, used 500 or 650. One thing I don't like about 250cc bikes is that you don't learn a whole lot about throttle control, basically there is on, off and cruise, not enough torque for you to feel the effect of it on the corners.
 

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Get a 500. Plenty quick enough to keep you happy, easier to control than a 600, cheaper to buy, cheaper to fix when you crash.

Or, if you've got your heart set on four cylinders, consider an MV Agusta F4.
 

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I agree on a 500 or 650 twin. I started on a 500 and after about 2k miles I stepped up to a used Ninja 650R and even that power increase was mind boggling.

Whatever you get, invest in some crash protection (for the bike).

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600 is just a number. My 600 puts around 100 hp on the ground. Some 1200's (no names but you know who I mean) only put 45 hp on the ground.
Don't think cc's, think HP then torque. IIRC, the Kaw 250 has about 35-40 hp on the ground and about 30 ft. Lbs. So if you want more without going apeshit and getting in too deep, look at 50 to 70 hp.
There are a LOT of 650 twins out there within that range. Find one that fits and you like the looks of. There are a few 600's that fit the bill too.
I can't tell from behind my keyboard if you are ready for a 600 SS (Super Sport) yet. The SS typically has between 110 and 130 hp at the crank. That means 100 to 120 on the ground. So you are looking at 3 times the power with much less forgiving controls.
It sounds like you lowsided. The terminology might have changed, I really try not to ride with the young guys anymore. Boring for everybody. Back in the day when you ran out of road before you ran out of corner, it was called a highside. A lowside is breaking your tire(s) loose before you get through the corner. Running out of traction before you run out of corner is a lowside.
A modern SS will generate some awesome lean angles and modern tires are pretty grippy. Anyway, if you are comfortable with 40 to 50 degree lean angles, the SS might be the ticket. You would be better served to get one in 2015 or 2016. A year of pushing a 650 though the corners will help you more then fighting a SS through traffic. Lane splitting is a gas and not nearly as dangerous as riding in traffic but bureaucrats get their panties all wadded up by motorcycles blasting through traffic. Lock you up and throw away the key!
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for all the help, and recommendations guys. It looks like 650 would fit the bill. Ill take a look around and see what comes up.
 

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SV650. done deal. AND... you can upgrade with some GSXR parts to make it even more capable. great sound too. rock solid. tough to kill. a million used ones out there.
 

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SV650 - It's a great bike, and the upgrade in power will be enough to get your attention, but it'll be docile and nimble.
 

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I'm going to take a bit different stance. You have to ask yourself how much acceleration you can handle. Perhaps you ran out of lean which tells me a couple things. Most new riders refuse to lean the bike and run wide or panic and grab a handful of brake and lock a tire. You leaning and spun the rear on a bike with 35 hp. If you are comfortable leaning the bike to max lean angle that's good. Its easier to learn throttle control than it is getting over the fear of leaning to max. Now, faster bike can mean you enter turns faster and thus, need more lean angle. The more you are over on the side the more throttle control/discipline you must have. Faster bike means you msut be more precise with your timming, so I'd say take a track day school like CSS. If you get level one and two you probably will not want a 250 or 650 after that. If you want to he self taught then stay with the 650 twins.

Good luck with your decision.
 

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kryptonite1,
Not to trying to be a dick BUT(you know I'm about to be) You are so new you don't even know how new you are. You should still have warning stickers all over you. 1000 miles is less then 24 hours of seat time. There those of us on the forum who have done 1000 miles in a day and many more who routinely do more then 1K in a weekend.

So lets look at your first 24 hours of riding time that ended with you killing a bike. you are an absolute beginner. What you describe as comfortable I would describe as lazy. You found away to get from point a to point b, but you did not ride enough to learn what your 250 could do.

I have no advice on what bike you should get. Just keep in mind no matter what bike you get it is more of a starting over then continuing.

Good luck
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I'm going to take a bit different stance. You have to ask yourself how much acceleration you can handle. Perhaps you ran out of lean which tells me a couple things. Most new riders refuse to lean the bike and run wide or panic and grab a handful of brake and lock a tire. You leaning and spun the rear on a bike with 35 hp. If you are comfortable leaning the bike to max lean angle that's good. Its easier to learn throttle control than it is getting over the fear of leaning to max. Now, faster bike can mean you enter turns faster and thus, need more lean angle. The more you are over on the side the more throttle control/discipline you must have. Faster bike means you msut be more precise with your timming, so I'd say take a track day school like CSS. If you get level one and two you probably will not want a 250 or 650 after that. If you want to he self taught then stay with the 650 twins.

Good luck with your decision.
Thanks, just before i went down i was working on leaning and that was one area that i dont think i felt i know how to do, but i was not afraid to lean the bike in corners, i was trying to be aware of body positioning and try to shift my body on the bike while taking the turns etc.

For reference i have attached the picture of where i went down, you can see the ramp. I went down just behind that car in the middle on the picture. I was leaning the bike very sharply, and i felt i needed to give it some gas to keep the momentum in turn and maintain the lean angle, however when i gave it gas that is where my rear tire spin out and i went down.

I like your advice and going to track was also something i wanted to do before i went down to better understand and practice lean and taking corners.




Not to trying to be a dick BUT(you know I'm about to be) You are so new you don't even know how new you are. You should still have warning stickers all over you. 1000 miles is less then 24 hours of seat time. There those of us on the forum who have done 1000 miles in a day and many more who routinely do more then 1K in a weekend.

So lets look at your first 24 hours of riding time that ended with you killing a bike. you are an absolute beginner. What you describe as comfortable I would describe as lazy. You found away to get from point a to point b, but you did not ride enough to learn what your 250 could do.

I have no advice on what bike you should get. Just keep in mind no matter what bike you get it is more of a starting over then continuing.

Good luck
blackripley,
I am not upset at what you said, your advice comes from experience and i am basing that on history of your bikes. :)

I have by no means mastered the 250, i am fully aware of that, i was trying to understand if i should get a bike with a little bit more power then 250 this time around. One thing that was lacking for me with 250, is when i was on highway and i needed to pass around the cars, i would have to plan my time to overtake. I personally think that i can handle the power of 650, based on the what the guys have explained here, but do i have the knowledge taking full advantage of that bike and its capabilities or even the 250? No i dont think so. That is something that i plan on learning when i get the bike.
 

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Consider this for a moment. When you say,

One thing that was lacking for me with 250, is when i was on highway and i needed to pass around the cars, i would have to plan my time to overtake.
at your stage of learning, this is a good thing! Right now you should be planning your passes very carefully. In fact, right now, you shouldn't be making very many passes at all.

One of the reasons to start on a low HP bike is that it forces you to ride this way; it makes it less likely for you to exceed your personal capabilities.

Furthermore, you should be riding on quiet back roads with 30 to 45 mph speed limits, and not doing much highway time at your experience level.

When you completed your MSF course, I'm sure they told you not to ride above your training and experience level. At that moment, your ability level was 20 mph in a parking lot. Advance from that gradually.
 

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I know I will git bashed for this but here it is. If you are gona get another bike dont take what eveyone has to say as law. Get a bike that you are comfortable riding whether ot be a 250, 600, or a 1000. Saftey is important, when you are comfortable with how the bike works and how you work with the bike the ride becomes enjoyable. Leaning is a skill you learn with time and expirience. I used ta think also that I needed ta learn how to ride at the edge every time I went out. Planning is important, but learning what you need to plan for is the key to a nice ride wether it be to work or just to ride. You can not plan for eveything that could possibly happen. Remember you are out for a ride not a tactical swat exercise. If you are comfortable with the bike thats a big part of the ride expireince. Asking others of what kind of bike you should get is a sign that maybe you should test ride a few new bikes and see what is out there. Now befor y'all git ta bashin me, I am not a racer/rider, stunter, or a master. I am just a 20+ years rider and just giving my 2¢ to some one who feels others can help in his search.

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Krypto,

How fast were you going. It doesn't look that sharp.

BTW, while a 600 maybe too much for you, I strongly suggest you get a bike with ABS and traction control. ABS is important, most new riders do not know how hard to break in a panic stop. The SV650 does come with abs. You will have fun at the track as well.
 

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Welcome to Opinion City. The Everybody in my Neighborhood Knows That subdivision.
ABS and Traction control are the last thing a newbe needs. You need to learn how to ride within your skill level (comfort zone) BEFORE you can advance that skill level. With TC and ABS you learn to ride withing the skill level of the TC and ABS. They don't do a thing for your skill set.
Don't be afraid to fall off. As long as you are geared up and not in traffic it shouldn't be too bad.
Here is a free clue. Something to stick in your experience bag. Coast through corners for the next few thousand miles at least. In that respect the SV is good. It is a point and shoot bike. The cornering is good but I felt the handling left a lot to be desired. I had an '02 and the frame wasn't all that great. When I started my transition, the frame would flex a bit before starting to move. Some guys like that but it always bothered me.
Regardless, Downshift before a corner, pull the clutch, lean in, coast through. Unless you are going downhill the bike will slow down. Remember that the ratio of lean to fork (turning) goes down with speed. As you slow down the forks have greater control over direction. The SV is very stable and corners well so you can coast thru the corner, point the tire where you want to go, drop the clutch and twist the wrist.
Get some more saddle time and you will start to learn how and when to use your brakes in a corner. After that gets to the point where it like breathing, in that it just happens without any effort on your part, then you can start figuring out how and what to do with your throttle in a corner.
The throttle puts more power on the ground. That changes everything. Geometry, Center of gravity, Trail, traction, etc.:vader
 
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