[chidarste]

Hello all -

I'm new to this forum, joined not too long ago and did some light reading on here but now dire circumstances unforutunately have me both regretting and looking forward to this post. I regret what I did, namely run my GS500F without the magical elixir oil, so I'm pretty sure something froze. I removed the spark plugs so there was no compression, put the bike in 5th gear while on the center stand, and the rear tire did not move when I tried to rotate it. Description of breakdown upon request..

Ignoring the typical "what an idiot move" comments - which I can vouch I've given myself way too much since this happened - I've decided to turn this into a learning experience. What better time to spend opening up the engine to find out what's wrong? I'd call myself technically competent and handy at following service manuals, but without having done it I'm worried about pitfalls and missing things the first time around.

Basically, I'd like a discussion regarding what goes into an engine rebuild, from valve clearances to replacing gaskets to "don't forget to empty the oil before opening it up" to what's important in setting up a backyard open air area to work in.... Bullet points would be handy, and descriptions of what to look for when assessing a seized engine would be extremely valuable.

This isn't a how-to, so hopefully I don't have to screen it, but if there's any additional knowledge I can garner prior to opening the engine then it'd be much appreciated. I ain't skeered, I got the service manual, but the pics are fuzzy at best

Thanks for any and all input!

 

[boner]

i don't have much advice, other than package and label parts and hardware as it is removed and lay the parts out on a big table. once tear down is complete you have to assess the situation and decide if you want to reassemble.

i have done one tear down on an oil starved motor (honda f4i) and it was trash once we tore it down. the cylinders, crank and cam bearing surfaces were deeply scored. it was cheaper to pick up a used motor than to even think about sourcing parts to repair it.

 

[YZFHEFF]

If you ran it long enough w/o oil for it to seize then you might as well just start looking for a replacement.

Go ahead and tear down the one you've got while you're waiting on the replacement, for the experience. You'll probably find all kinds of galled-up parts like main/rod bearings.

How in the hell did you manage to run it w/o any oil in it? What a shame.

Best of luck with it. :beer

 

[YZFHEFF]

Suzuki GS500 GS 500 ENGINE MOTOR TRANNY VIDEOS 3084 MI:eBay Motors (item 370254134589 end time Sep-08-09 18:45:00 PDT)

 

[chidarste]

If you ran it long enough w/o oil for it to seize then you might as well just start looking for a replacement.

Go ahead and tear down the one you've got while you're waiting on the replacement, for the experience. You'll probably find all kinds of galled-up parts like main/rod bearings.

How in the hell did you manage to run it w/o any oil in it? What a shame.

Best of luck with it. :beer

First off, I realize now this is the How-To section: eek! Help me Fix It is where I wanted to put this, musta posted this late at night If this can be moved due to the responses, great; I can delete and repost also if such is the convention.

Thanks YZF for the tidbit of info. The reason it didn't have oil is, typically, user error, and it's embarrassing. That's why I'd like to learn from the mistake, rather than pump a bunch of money into it (and then not pump oil into it later due to ignorance). The more comfortable around a bike, the more likely I'm able (and willing) to perform basic maintenance on it. The GS500F is not a complicated bike by any means, but it's an introduction to self-maintenance of a machine... if given the chance.

When you say galled-up parts, what exactly is a give-away? From random reading I've gathered scorched marks, dark marks like oil burnt on the metal, etc... Oh yeah, lack of movement on hinges :neener What is a good guide when disassembling an engine for filtering out which pieces are still good and which should be replaced?

Also, the ebay post was nice - I'd seen a craigslist ad for $600 dollars in SanFran for an engine which was the same year and less miles... Unfortunately I'm on the opposite coast I'm going to be looking, but if there's a chance to fix this under or close to the cost radar of a new engine I'm damn well going to do it. Getting back to riding is a priority, but understand a larger bike is definitely where the road is leading.

-d

 

[YZFHEFF]

When you say galled-up parts, what exactly is a give-away? From random reading I've gathered scorched marks, dark marks like oil burnt on the metal, etc... Oh yeah, lack of movement on hinges What is a good guide when disassembling an engine for filtering out which pieces are still good and which should be replaced?

You'll find discolored metal and lack of tolerances. Crank/rod bearings etc may be fused together. I tore apart an old RM125 engine once that had revved out on it's side 'til it died and the crank and rod were fused into one piece.

The cylinder walls will likely be scored all to hell too.

I'd bet you'd likely spend two or three times as much as a used engine to rebuild yours. On just the parts.

Then a couple of special tools will be required like a dial indicator, mics, and a good torque wrench or two.

I'm not trying to discourage you from rebuilding just because. I really believe it would be a much more expensive, not to mention headache-filled proposition.

Ron Ayers $
CRANKSHAFT - $485.19
ROD ASSY, CONNECTING - $65.54 (x2)
PISTON SET - $80.37 (x2)
PIN, PISTON - $8.68 (x2)
etc., etc. just on the bottom end. Then there's the head.

Keep your eye open for wrecked ones too. Perfect application of a titleless or salvage bike.

Cheers :beer

 

[YZFHEFF]

P.S. - Things like this are why everybody needs at least two ready-to-go bikes in the garage.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Finding a used engine and even adding the cost of shipping would be cheaper than a complete rebuild

 

[chidarste]

P.S. - Things like this are why everybody needs at least two ready-to-go bikes in the garage.

qft

I am about to drop the engine (going to need to do that regardless of whether it's getting fixed or replacing it, so figured it's a good step going forward) and ran into a bit of a snafu. It looks like the radiator is attached to the engine, and the permanent part of the frame, which doesn't get lowered. However, nowhere in the service manual does it state whether to remove it from the engine or the frame; additionally, the pictures omit the bolts by the front tire which attach the frames together, which also happen to attach to the radiator. I think in order to save a bit of oil leaking I'm going to remove it from the frame - unless there's other sage advice?

There is a guy in Indianapolis that has some spare parts, all for the cost of a Jimmy John's sammich! :cheers He doesn't have all the parts, but may provide a cushion to the cost of repairing it meself.

Thanks again for the feedback!

-d

 

[boner]

radiators are fragile. i would drain all fluids, and remove the radiator first before dropping the engine.

 

[ghostriders999]

Finding a used engine and even adding the cost of shipping would be cheaper than a complete rebuild

Those motors are relatively cheap and if im not mistaken fits several years back,, so it should be cheaptr to replace

 

[YZFHEFF]

The radiator you're referring to is actually an oil cooler. I know, a radiator for oil, just semantics.

It would be a toss-up I guess to remove or leave attached. It's got to come off at some point so I would probably just drain the oil and take it off first. I think it would get damaged less this way. I can just see it flailing around and banging into stuff while you're wrangling the engine out. If you do leave it attached I would tape flat cardboard cut to fit on both sides to protect the fins.

That Jimmy Johns dude sounds like he's selling all the bad parts. Why would you want?

Have fun with it and watch your knuckles.

 

[LDS]

I have a partially disassembled GS500 motor in my garage. It burned the valves on one cylinder due to the previous owner not checking the valve clearance.

It could be yours for $250 plus shipping.

 

[chidarste]

GS500E or F? How many miles does it take for a valve clearance to rear its ugly head? /curious

PS -> Update since I'm responding anyways... The piston rod is fused to the crankshaft. When the shit hit the fan, the oil light had came on and my buddy dropped by after to gave me a couple quarts... engine started up and I decided to drive off, being hawked by a cop causing a traffic scene and all... seems that was a mistake, things didn't cool off, and the fusion happened. (Why can't we harness it for science, dammit!) Regardless, it was definitely an experience opening up the engine and spotting the blackened metals. I might even add pics Particularly because the head of the pistons were black... and the conical portion I can understand, but shouldn't the liner be somewhat clear?

LDS - Lemme know what can be salvaged (sorry, I'm a noob) and maybe there's a way to get the most out of the least effort.

-d

 

[Nightfall]

GS500E or F?

Same engine in both bikes, E & F just refer to the naked and faired versions of the bike.

 

[YZFHEFF]

Regardless, it was definitely an experience opening up the engine and spotting the blackened metals. I might even add pics

Please do.

Particularly because the head of the pistons were black... and the conical portion I can understand, but shouldn't the liner be somewhat clear?

Sorry I'm not getting the "conical portion". The bore should be pretty scored with the rings running up and down without lube.

 

[chidarste]

Please do.
Sorry I'm not getting the "conical portion". The bore should be pretty scored with the rings running up and down without lube.

The top part of the piston is conical, as I'd describe it anyways, in that it's rounded out... Then there's the flat lining (the outside of the piston) which would create the seal. Not the best description, likely, but I'll get in there with a camera and do some solid snaps here soon. The outside cylinder bore seemed ok. (?)

Nightfall - I realize they're interchangable, but has Suzuki churned out an E anytime recently? I'd be more concerned with wear & tear from time than anything else. I prolly sound snooty, but having a 2007 GS500F and ruining it, I'd hate to ruin a motorcycle due to time without putting the time into it.... weird to say, but I know what I mean.

-d

 

[chidarste]

Here they be! Hopefully they translate well enough. Click on the pic for a b***** peek

Piston rod fused with crankshaft


At another angle, shows the difference in metal coloring well enough methinks.


Piston head, is rounded on top. This look normal?


Spark plugs are still a mystery to me. What does this coloring suggest? (Cropped so no large pic)

-d

 

[jm8343]

Normal use plugs look like coffee with milk colour... if the top of that plug is more white then most likely it was over heating.
Piston as best I can see it looks ok could do with some cleaning on the top.

You can get carbon build-up on top of the pistion when piston rings become worn and oil is able to leak past the rings from the crankcase also leaking from valves can cause this.
The plug colour is a good indication if all is well under normal circumstances.

I know this is an old post but just for the sake of history I decided to answer and also say hello to all.

 

[riverszzr]

I wonder if he ever got another engine, or if he bought the new crank and rods etc...and put this one together?