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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've put way too many hours into this thing and really need help.

2002 R1

Problem: The bike will turn over and run, but only with throttle open. I can get the bike to run but only at an elevated rpm (4000-5000). It will fun for less than a minute but then loads up(gets rich) and fouls the plugs. The bike then won't start til I pull the plugs and clean them (with a tooth brush and starter fluid). Throws a code 12 which is crankshaft position sensor...but I got a new one and it didn't fix the problem.

Backstory:
Purchased for cheap from a guy a couple months ago. Sat for 2 years due to electrical issue. It ended up being a loose wire on the cam position sensor. It was also throwing a code 19 so I bypassed the ignition with a switch, this stopped the code from being thrown. Have a new ignition on order from china.

Things I've Tried:
-New battery
-New plugs
-Cleaned the Fuel Injectors/ Put new gaskets and orings on the injectors
-New Cam Position Sensor
-New Crankshaft Position Sensor (Code 12?)
-Checked plug Coil Resistance
-Insured that the plugs get spark when pulled from the bike
-Replaced all vacuum lines
-Cleaned Engine ground
-checked all fuses
-checked/cleaned all electrical plugs
-Replaced main fuel line with no-kink fix
-Swapped Main Harness w/ a used one
-Everything Checks out in Diagnostics Mode
-Insured exup valve operates correctly
-Bypassed faulty kickstand switch
-temporarily bypassed faulty neutral switch by grounding
-checked compression: all cylinders in spec



thanks for the help guys.
 

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hmmm, it sounds like you have done most stuff already. so i'll just suggest some things that i have seen cause "Phantom" problems.

one check your regulator rectifier. make certain that you do not have ac bleed threw. it can cause some weird symptoms. (but i have never seen it cause what you are describing)

two check the ecu, i have had ecu's fail and cause similar symptoms.
 

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hmmm, it sounds like you have done most stuff already. so i'll just suggest some things that i have seen cause "Phantom" problems.

one check your regulator rectifier. make certain that you do not have ac bleed threw. it can cause some weird symptoms. (but i have never seen it cause what you are describing)

two check the ecu, i have had ecu's fail and cause similar symptoms.
sounds like ECU to me too. they do all kinds of weird things. check out your Throttle Position Sensor(TPS). if there are any "holes" or not aligned right (they can be sometimes adjusted or loosen over time), it will cause all sorts of non-running conditions. GL
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys!

I checked the TPS in the diagnostics mode and it seemed alright. I believe closed was 16 and open was 96(one below spec). I was able to hit every number from 16-96 by rolling the throttle. I'm hesitant to pick up cause they're so expensive ~130. I think i will check it with a meter and make sure its in spec.

I'll check for A/C bleed through when I get a chance. I think I'll buy an ECU off ebay and give it a swap. If it doesn't work I could just resell it and not be out any $$$$.

Thanks again guys, I'm really coming up against a wall with these problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So I checked the TPS. The resistance is within spec. But when I check the voltage it was reading 4v. It's suppose to read .65-.75. Adjusting the TPS will only vary the voltage by .5v. So i'm thinking this is pointing to the ECU (I believe it is sending the wrong voltage to the TPS and possibly other electric on the bike).

My thought is that the ECU reads the difference in voltage going to and from the TPS. So its reading the right potentiometer (TPS) postion, allowing it to give the right reading in Diag mode.

I have a ECU off ebay coming and I will be swapping it out as soon as I get it. Keeping my fingers crossed. If that doesnt work im thinking ill get a new tps.

Does this make sense?

Ill keep u guys posted.
 

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So I checked the TPS. The resistance is within spec. But when I check the voltage it was reading 4v. It's suppose to read .65-.75. Adjusting the TPS will only vary the voltage by .5v. So i'm thinking this is pointing to the ECU (I believe it is sending the wrong voltage to the TPS and possibly other electric on the bike).

My thought is that the ECU reads the difference in voltage going to and from the TPS. So its reading the right potentiometer (TPS) postion, allowing it to give the right reading in Diag mode.

I have a ECU off ebay coming and I will be swapping it out as soon as I get it. Keeping my fingers crossed. If that doesnt work im thinking ill get a new tps.

Does this make sense?

Ill keep u guys posted.
so it's reading 4v at idle? that's backwards. normally, a TPS starts at .65 approx. and as you move the TPS from Idle to WOT, the voltage slowly increases up to around 4v. does it have 2 or 3 wires hooked up to the TPS?

usually with a 3 wire TPS, if you hook your black meter lead to bike ground and probe the wires on the TPS, you should get 1 wire is nothing (ground), 5v which is your battery input, and then the last will show the variable voltage.

keep us posted....
 

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the joke is in your hand
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now I don't want to say the tps is your issue but, my buddy's 04r6 started off by just randomly stalling and it progressed over a few months into not staying running unless you held the throttle open.

but when we checked it via the diagnostic feature it checked out just fine. so it had us stumped. so we simply put mine on his and he rode it for a week and it never acted up again.

so what I'm telling you is it passed the tests but it was still bad.
 

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well, ya i still think the ECU could be prob, just hoping to help the guy out in case he has some issues troubleshooting. plus, since i can't actually touch the bike, i have to shoot in the dark on specs for that bike. I just hope it all works out. i love a good electrical challenge.
after turning wrenches for a few years and Diagnostics for 16 years, seen a lot of stuff that no matter how ya try to prove a part is bad, it can still pass. weird.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
so it's reading 4v at idle? that's backwards. normally, a TPS starts at .65 approx. and as you move the TPS from Idle to WOT, the voltage slowly increases up to around 4v. does it have 2 or 3 wires hooked up to the TPS?

usually with a 3 wire TPS, if you hook your black meter lead to bike ground and probe the wires on the TPS, you should get 1 wire is nothing (ground), 5v which is your battery input, and then the last will show the variable voltage.

keep us posted....
hmmm, When I was checking the resistance went up as you turned to WAT the resistance went up. So I assumed the voltage would go down as you roll on the throttle. The manual said to check the voltage by putting the meter to the blue and yellow.

Honestly electrical frustrates the hell out of me. I'm going to go out of town for a week, so when I get back I'll throw that ECU in. If that doesn't work I'll get a new TPS.

I'll make sure to keep u guys posted. I hate coming across post were the answer is never posted. :nono

Thanks for the responses, it really helps a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ECU is a no go. I'm gonna get a TPS when I get money in a few weeks. If that doesn't work I don't even know what to do next. I'm literally out of [electrical / fuel] things that could be wrong
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Been poking around on the internet and I've seen the rectifier causing some problems on people bikes. Does the rectifier sound like it could be the problem? is there any way to check it?
 

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Mexican Hard Shell Taco
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Your bike can, and should, run fine with the rectifier unplugged, that is, if the battery is well charged.

The TPS is fine, don't buy another one.

Check the IAP and MAP sensors. Unplugging them is a good way to test them, once the ECU figures out the sensor is not there, it will go into limp mode, with predefined "safe" values, instead of the wacky values it might be getting from the sensor. Those two sensors can very well explain why it is fouling plugs, as it is a speed/density FI, getting incorrect values to calculate the amount of fuel that is required could be it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Your bike can, and should, run fine with the rectifier unplugged, that is, if the battery is well charged.

The TPS is fine, don't buy another one.

Check the IAP and MAP sensors. Unplugging them is a good way to test them, once the ECU figures out the sensor is not there, it will go into limp mode, with predefined "safe" values, instead of the wacky values it might be getting from the sensor. Those two sensors can very well explain why it is fouling plugs, as it is a speed/density FI, getting incorrect values to calculate the amount of fuel that is required could be it.
So I've ruled out everything mentioned since the last time I posted. Got a new TPS... did nothing. unplugged the rectifier... no luck. Unplugged the IAP and MAP sensors... no luck. Unplugged the air temp sensor... nothing. Even tried unplugging the exup and playing with it manually... still the same.

I even cleaned the Fuel injectors by pressurizing them to the operating psi and cycling them with carb cleaner.

I am completely stumped. :duh2 I don't know what to do.

The only thing that doesn't seem right to me is the reading on the difference between the map and iap sensors. When the engine cranks it reads that its not creating enough vacuum but i replaced the vacuum lines and made sure the throttle bodies were seated correctly.


With clean plugs it will idle for a second and die. Once you try running it with gas it will foul them out with buildup.

Tomorrow I am going to try unplugging the coolant temp sensor being that it is the only other thing that control fuel injection duration.

THANK YOU for the help guys. I really appreciate it. I'm starting to get very very desperate. but seriously THANK YOU
 

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Mexican Hard Shell Taco
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I doubt it's the coolant temperature sensor, even if it were reading too cold it shouldn't enrichen the mix to the point of flooding the engine...

I'd say your best bet is the fuel pressure regulator. If the fuel pressure is too high you'll get too much fuel in the engine, and the ECU assumes a set value for the fuel pressure and will time the injectors accordingly. If the fuel pressure is out of whack, the ECU has no way to know and it may result in a rich or lean condition, in this case, if the fuel pressure is too high there will be too much fuel in the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I doubt it's the coolant temperature sensor, even if it were reading too cold it shouldn't enrichen the mix to the point of flooding the engine...

I'd say your best bet is the fuel pressure regulator. If the fuel pressure is too high you'll get too much fuel in the engine, and the ECU assumes a set value for the fuel pressure and will time the injectors accordingly. If the fuel pressure is out of whack, the ECU has no way to know and it may result in a rich or lean condition, in this case, if the fuel pressure is too high there will be too much fuel in the engine.
I forgot to mention that we pulled the regulator and did our best to test it. When we put air pressure to it it was releasing at the correct psi. :(

I'm sorry it must sound like i'm making this up. Thanks for the reply
 

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Discussion Starter #20
This is going to sound silly but.... have you pulled your air filter? Also do all your lights work? Only reason I ask is we often forget the easy stuff.
I've been doing all the testing the last month with the air box off, and I unplugged the main head lights to conserve battery. They were funtioning before I unplugged them. The brake light works. Don't know about turn signal cause the guy that had it before me removed all the blinkers. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me i'm an idiot and this is the problem. :/
 
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