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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My ZX9R is set up for riding twisties and some street riding. Some say the 190/55x17 is superior to the 190/50x17 tire because it offers more surface area contact in a lean. I am debating on converting over to the 190/55x17 using DOT approved Pirelli Diablo Super Corsa SP V2 (using the recommended racing tire pressures).I ride the pace system and don't use racing techniques to enter and exit a corner in the twisties but I am a fast rider. Is the added traction worth it to convert over? Does anyone have any imput on the Shinko 003 Stealth or Ultra soft for riding twisties? THANKS
 

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The 55 will give you some extra grip when leaned over, but if you're not going super fast you probably won't need the extra grip.

The 55 will also make the bike tip into the corner faster, which may or may not be a good thing depending on how your bike handles now. This will come at the cost of straight line stability which again won't matter at normal speeds. The area where you will notice a difference is that the 55 may square off faster if you do highway riding. IMO the 50 is better for most street use, I'd only use the 55 if you have an issue with the bike turning in slow.

As for Shinkos, they have very mixed reviews, I think they're an OK, cheap tire for casual use, but for serious riding you want a serious tire.

For example, there is a Shinko ADV tire that has identical tread pattern to a Metzler, but the Shinko is a lot cheaper. However the Shinko had a lot of reports of the tire cracking and falling apart under heavy load and miles, and losing grip on cold pavement, where the real deal Metzler had no issues.
 

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I don't believe they still sell 190/50s I HATE that tire, back in the day where 190/55s were only on race rubber I ran 180/55s JUST to stay away from them, they make the bike handle like a boat.
 

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i recall MANY people telling me that 190/50s effing suck.
 

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I've read numerous bike reviews where a bike's turn in was a little rough and the reviewer mentioned putting 55s on as a first mod. Just to make sure they weren't just trying to BS I'd go to that bike's forums, and sure enough many on the forums rave about the 55 series.

Figure I'll give 55s a try on my next bike to see what all the hub bub is about.
 

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I've used Shinko's before. I wouldn't take them on the track but have used the Stealth's for spirited twisty/street riding in the Pocono's with no problem. I had no problems with mine at all. I was riding a ZX6R so your bike will be a little different ;)
 

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I used 190/50 on my Tuono, that bike turned in perfectly on them. I felt like a 55 would have made it too twitchy.
 

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Last set of shinkos I had were a bit lazy handling, felt heavy, and scared me when panic braking. Was years ago though. Maybe they have better compounds now.
I only consider them for adv off road tires really since with them the tread condition can matter more than the compound and it's a lot cheaper to keep throwing new shinkos on to get back to sharp tread blocks.
 

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I don't see the point in a 50-series tire. I've not yet ridden a motorcycle that wasn't stable enough in a straight line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks from everyone for all of the input. A little information about the mods on my ZX9R. The front suspension was rebuilt by P1 Racing with Ohlins valving and Race Teck Springs, the rear shock is a Penske 8983 reworked by Traxxion DynamicsThe rear of the bike was raised about an inch and the front end was dropped 5mm The suspension was tuned again by P1 Racing. the tires are Michelin Pilot Power3's. The bike handles quite well and holds a line with ease. Steering is quick and it lays over into a turn easily.The wheels are GaleSpeed R. I was under the impression that a DOT race tire would optimize cornering performance equating better speed and lean with the 190/55x17 tires at race track pressures. How can I find the optimum temperature for a tire realitive to ambient road surface conditions?
 

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I was under the impression that a DOT race tire would optimize cornering performance equating better speed and lean with the 190/55x17 tires at race track pressures. How can I find the optimum temperature for a tire realitive to ambient road surface conditions?
You don't need (or want) a DOT race tire for the road, it won't last for shit and you will NEVER get it up to temp, it'll basically cold tear itself apart. The nice thing now is that you can get 190/55 is sport touring rubber that will last more than a month commuting and has more than enough traction for the street.

So far as temp, don't bother, that is going to be specific to the tire and the use. What is recommended is the 10% rule if the tire pressure changes more then 10% between hot and cold, the pressure is too low, if its less its too hard. Its a bit of a balancing act.

But seriously, a LOT of people run WAY to aggressive of a tire for what they are doing with it, I've seen guys arguing Super Corsa SC compound choices when their tires were squared to hell from interstate cruising, its dumb.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
You don't need (or want) a DOT race tire for the road, it won't last for shit and you will NEVER get it up to temp, it'll basically cold tear itself apart. The nice thing now is that you can get 190/55 is sport touring rubber that will last more than a month commuting and has more than enough traction for the street.

So far as temp, don't bother, that is going to be specific to the tire and the use. What is recommended is the 10% rule if the tire pressure changes more then 10% between hot and cold, the pressure is too low, if its less its too hard. Its a bit of a balancing act.

But seriously, a LOT of people run WAY to aggressive of a tire for what they are doing with it, I've seen guys arguing Super Corsa SC compound choices when their tires were squared to hell from interstate cruising, its dumb.
I was planning on changing the tires specifically for riding twisties. The street tires come off and the 'special purpose' tire go on. When I was in Arkansas last month there was a group of riders that had several sets of tires in their inventory they were trying out. The supersport low pressure tires were in their inventory. One other note. Michelin makes a model of supersport tire that has three different compounds for diffferent road temperatures. What do you recommend for a twistie tire? I tow my bike to and from the mountains so there is no touring.
 

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You'll find that any of the 'hypersport' offerings from any of the manufacturers will have more than enough grip for your purpose. I have always ignored high-mileage tires... I figure if it sucks, it will just suck for a really long time. I'd rather buy tires more often and get grip. Then again, I don't commute or ride in crappy weather, so when I'm on the bike it's always play time. Dunlop Q3, Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa, whatever Michelin is selling... Your ZX-9 is not a light bike, so maybe a tire with a stiffer carcass would provide additional stability. Dunlop makes stiff sidewalls. Then again, I have a friend who can carry some serious pace, and he swears by Diablo Rosso Corsas on his ZX-14.

I'd stay away from anything that's actually designed to be a track tire. The slightly more street-oriented tires will be designed to generate heat much quicker.

Q3's are inexpensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Your right Mulletman, the ZX9R isn't a 'light' bike but it has been lightened as much as possible plus it has some engine work done too, like a Muzzy big bore kit, polished and contoured ports and combustion chambers, indexed cams,igniton advanced Muzzy full exhaust and carb work. Every major large bolt was replaced with Titanium I'm sure the Gale Speed wheels will help alot too. I will look into the tires you mentioned
 

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I was planning on changing the tires specifically for riding twisties. The street tires come off and the 'special purpose' tire go on. When I was in Arkansas last month there was a group of riders that had several sets of tires in their inventory they were trying out. The supersport low pressure tires were in their inventory. One other note. Michelin makes a model of supersport tire that has three different compounds for diffferent road temperatures. What do you recommend for a twistie tire? I tow my bike to and from the mountains so there is no touring.
a Diablo Rosso Corsa has a 26psi rear recommended starting pressure, that is a street tire, and I don't run them below 30psi on the street ever, and I have 60 miles in one direction of twisties near at hand.

I don't run the tire hard enough on the street to drop that much off, the entire idea is to make room for the added pressure when you are running the piss out of the tire....like a track day.

Which was my point, I don't use the "track" low pressure even with the tires, I don't need to, its a more aggressive tire than I need. Those PR3s are more than sufficient, and they are easier to heat up, AND they don't need to be hot as hell and they take a lot more time to cool off, so they are usually at operating temp.

...which I don't come close to ....again on the road....with a street/track tire....much less full on DOT rubber.

I've run Diablos, DCIIIs, and various pilot powers on my Speed Triple, which is in the same weight class as that ZX-9....the Sportmaxes that came on my Super Duke are basically an ST compound, but I haven't hurt for traction on any of them, even on my 45* damp jaunt up a mountain last weekend.

Eitherway, avoid anything with a track operating temperature, it just means that it won't work 90% of the time on the street, I run into this with my 675 the brakes barley work until I drag the fronts for a block or so to get some temp in them, then when I forget I have to do it again or slam on the brakes at every light to keep the heat up. Tires do the same thing.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
a Diablo Rosso Corsa has a 26psi rear recommended starting pressure, that is a street tire, and I don't run them below 30psi on the street ever, and I have 60 miles in one direction of twisties near at hand.

I don't run the tire hard enough on the street to drop that much off, the entire idea is to make room for the added pressure when you are running the piss out of the tire....like a track day.

Which was my point, I don't use the "track" low pressure even with the tires, I don't need to, its a more aggressive tire than I need. Those PR3s are more than sufficient, and they are easier to heat up, AND they don't need to be hot as hell and they take a lot more time to cool off, so they are usually at operating temp.

...which I don't come close to ....again on the road....with a street/track tire....much less full on DOT rubber.

I've run Diablos, DCIIIs, and various pilot powers on my Speed Triple, which is in the same weight class as that ZX-9....the Sportmaxes that came on my Super Duke are basically an ST compound, but I haven't hurt for traction on any of them, even on my 45* damp jaunt up a mountain last weekend.

Eitherway, avoid anything with a track operating temperature, it just means that it won't work 90% of the time on the street, I run into this with my 675 the brakes barley work until I drag the fronts for a block or so to get some temp in them, then when I forget I have to do it again or slam on the brakes at every light to keep the heat up. Tires do the same thing.
Are you running the 50 or 55 series tire?
 

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180/55 on a 5.5" rim was "the standard" size for quite a few years there. Then as the horsepower race continued, bikes started to go to a 190/50 on a 6" rim. This is a shorter sidewall (nominally 95mm vs 100mm), and because of the greater width AND the wider rim you get a flatter, more U-shaped tire section. There was immediate reaction of bikes being resistant to turning, and the manufacturers started developing a 190/55, which on a 6" rim gives the same overall section profile as the 180/50 on a 5.5", albeit 5mm taller in the sidewall.

Tire manufacturers are largely led by the bike OEMs, which in turn took a couple of years to rework the bike suspension and ride height and etc. to fit 190/55s - the ZX-14R *still* runs a 190/50, but that is more in its drag bike heritage - so there were practically no 190/55s to be found before, say, 2009 or so, at least three years after the original ZX-14 came on a 190/50 rear (I think the Hayabusa ran one earlier than that, too).

The 190/55 restores the profile of the 180/55, which was developed along with the standard 120/70 front tire, which hasn't changed through all this. For example, the Continental sport/race tires felt VERY strange in the 190/50 - it actually felt that the front was turning in differently than the rear and the two ends were fighting each other. At the same time, most of the b***** bikes that use a 190 section tire can use the added 5mm of rear ride height anyway, it sharpens the geometry a bit and kind of augments the turnin effect. IMHO the *only* excuse for buying a new 190/50 tire is if your bike cannot accommodate the extra tire height of the 190/55 (a few bikes don't have swingarm clearance and some huggers don't work, either).

The new 200 series tires are going through the same thing now, btw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Going to a 190/55x17 from a 190/50x17 entails changing the sprockets from a 16/41 to a 15/40 and lowering the rear of the bike 1" and or raising the bars from 5mm to zero. It might be worth it.. we will see
 

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Going to a 190/55x17 from a 190/50x17 entails changing the sprockets from a 16/41 to a 15/40 and lowering the rear of the bike 1" and or raising the bars from 5mm to zero. It might be worth it.. we will see
I doubt it, the increase should be around 15mm (a bit over a half inch) inch axle to ground, not enough to get up in arms about. This varies from tire to tire, but that is the idea 190 is the cross-section in MM and the 55 is the percentage that is height. Plus that Penski should have a ride height ring if I remember right.

...of course this gets messy with motorcycle tires because the cross section isn't square like a car tire, but the idea holds.

Going to a 1681mm(66") rolling distance from 1651mm(65") a 1.5% change in your speedo.

:edit

Actually your speedo won't change, just remembered its on the front hub, your road speed will increase 1.5% for X engine speed.
 
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