2002 R1, I'm stumped! HELP PLEASE - Sportbikes.net
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post #1 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-29-2013, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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2002 R1, I'm stumped! HELP PLEASE

I've put way too many hours into this thing and really need help.

2002 R1

Problem: The bike will turn over and run, but only with throttle open. I can get the bike to run but only at an elevated rpm (4000-5000). It will fun for less than a minute but then loads up(gets rich) and fouls the plugs. The bike then won't start til I pull the plugs and clean them (with a tooth brush and starter fluid). Throws a code 12 which is crankshaft position sensor...but I got a new one and it didn't fix the problem.

Backstory:
Purchased for cheap from a guy a couple months ago. Sat for 2 years due to electrical issue. It ended up being a loose wire on the cam position sensor. It was also throwing a code 19 so I bypassed the ignition with a switch, this stopped the code from being thrown. Have a new ignition on order from china.

Things I've Tried:
-New battery
-New plugs
-Cleaned the Fuel Injectors/ Put new gaskets and orings on the injectors
-New Cam Position Sensor
-New Crankshaft Position Sensor (Code 12?)
-Checked plug Coil Resistance
-Insured that the plugs get spark when pulled from the bike
-Replaced all vacuum lines
-Cleaned Engine ground
-checked all fuses
-checked/cleaned all electrical plugs
-Replaced main fuel line with no-kink fix
-Swapped Main Harness w/ a used one
-Everything Checks out in Diagnostics Mode
-Insured exup valve operates correctly
-Bypassed faulty kickstand switch
-temporarily bypassed faulty neutral switch by grounding
-checked compression: all cylinders in spec



thanks for the help guys.

Last edited by chris35moto; 04-29-2013 at 11:23 PM.
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post #2 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 02:51 AM
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hmmm, it sounds like you have done most stuff already. so i'll just suggest some things that i have seen cause "Phantom" problems.

one check your regulator rectifier. make certain that you do not have ac bleed threw. it can cause some weird symptoms. (but i have never seen it cause what you are describing)

two check the ecu, i have had ecu's fail and cause similar symptoms.

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post #3 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffo8 View Post
hmmm, it sounds like you have done most stuff already. so i'll just suggest some things that i have seen cause "Phantom" problems.

one check your regulator rectifier. make certain that you do not have ac bleed threw. it can cause some weird symptoms. (but i have never seen it cause what you are describing)

two check the ecu, i have had ecu's fail and cause similar symptoms.
sounds like ECU to me too. they do all kinds of weird things. check out your Throttle Position Sensor(TPS). if there are any "holes" or not aligned right (they can be sometimes adjusted or loosen over time), it will cause all sorts of non-running conditions. GL

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post #4 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys!

I checked the TPS in the diagnostics mode and it seemed alright. I believe closed was 16 and open was 96(one below spec). I was able to hit every number from 16-96 by rolling the throttle. I'm hesitant to pick up cause they're so expensive ~130. I think i will check it with a meter and make sure its in spec.

I'll check for A/C bleed through when I get a chance. I think I'll buy an ECU off ebay and give it a swap. If it doesn't work I could just resell it and not be out any $$$$.

Thanks again guys, I'm really coming up against a wall with these problems.
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post #5 of 56 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 01:35 PM
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i would definitely check the TPS with a multimeter. that way you can see if there are any dips/holes from idle to WOT. even 1 spot can cause problems.

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post #6 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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So I checked the TPS. The resistance is within spec. But when I check the voltage it was reading 4v. It's suppose to read .65-.75. Adjusting the TPS will only vary the voltage by .5v. So i'm thinking this is pointing to the ECU (I believe it is sending the wrong voltage to the TPS and possibly other electric on the bike).

My thought is that the ECU reads the difference in voltage going to and from the TPS. So its reading the right potentiometer (TPS) postion, allowing it to give the right reading in Diag mode.

I have a ECU off ebay coming and I will be swapping it out as soon as I get it. Keeping my fingers crossed. If that doesnt work im thinking ill get a new tps.

Does this make sense?

Ill keep u guys posted.
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post #7 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris35moto View Post
So I checked the TPS. The resistance is within spec. But when I check the voltage it was reading 4v. It's suppose to read .65-.75. Adjusting the TPS will only vary the voltage by .5v. So i'm thinking this is pointing to the ECU (I believe it is sending the wrong voltage to the TPS and possibly other electric on the bike).

My thought is that the ECU reads the difference in voltage going to and from the TPS. So its reading the right potentiometer (TPS) postion, allowing it to give the right reading in Diag mode.

I have a ECU off ebay coming and I will be swapping it out as soon as I get it. Keeping my fingers crossed. If that doesnt work im thinking ill get a new tps.

Does this make sense?

Ill keep u guys posted.
so it's reading 4v at idle? that's backwards. normally, a TPS starts at .65 approx. and as you move the TPS from Idle to WOT, the voltage slowly increases up to around 4v. does it have 2 or 3 wires hooked up to the TPS?

usually with a 3 wire TPS, if you hook your black meter lead to bike ground and probe the wires on the TPS, you should get 1 wire is nothing (ground), 5v which is your battery input, and then the last will show the variable voltage.

keep us posted....

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post #8 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 08:30 PM
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now I don't want to say the tps is your issue but, my buddy's 04r6 started off by just randomly stalling and it progressed over a few months into not staying running unless you held the throttle open.

but when we checked it via the diagnostic feature it checked out just fine. so it had us stumped. so we simply put mine on his and he rode it for a week and it never acted up again.

so what I'm telling you is it passed the tests but it was still bad.
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post #9 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-03-2013, 09:37 PM
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well, ya i still think the ECU could be prob, just hoping to help the guy out in case he has some issues troubleshooting. plus, since i can't actually touch the bike, i have to shoot in the dark on specs for that bike. I just hope it all works out. i love a good electrical challenge.
after turning wrenches for a few years and Diagnostics for 16 years, seen a lot of stuff that no matter how ya try to prove a part is bad, it can still pass. weird.

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post #10 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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so it's reading 4v at idle? that's backwards. normally, a TPS starts at .65 approx. and as you move the TPS from Idle to WOT, the voltage slowly increases up to around 4v. does it have 2 or 3 wires hooked up to the TPS?

usually with a 3 wire TPS, if you hook your black meter lead to bike ground and probe the wires on the TPS, you should get 1 wire is nothing (ground), 5v which is your battery input, and then the last will show the variable voltage.

keep us posted....
hmmm, When I was checking the resistance went up as you turned to WAT the resistance went up. So I assumed the voltage would go down as you roll on the throttle. The manual said to check the voltage by putting the meter to the blue and yellow.

Honestly electrical frustrates the hell out of me. I'm going to go out of town for a week, so when I get back I'll throw that ECU in. If that doesn't work I'll get a new TPS.

I'll make sure to keep u guys posted. I hate coming across post were the answer is never posted.

Thanks for the responses, it really helps a lot.
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post #11 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-15-2013, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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ECU is a no go. I'm gonna get a TPS when I get money in a few weeks. If that doesn't work I don't even know what to do next. I'm literally out of [electrical / fuel] things that could be wrong
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post #12 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-20-2013, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Been poking around on the internet and I've seen the rectifier causing some problems on people bikes. Does the rectifier sound like it could be the problem? is there any way to check it?
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post #13 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-21-2013, 02:31 AM
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First test with a rectifier is the sniff test, if it smells burnt its toast.
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post #14 of 56 (permalink) Old 05-21-2013, 09:30 AM
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Your bike can, and should, run fine with the rectifier unplugged, that is, if the battery is well charged.

The TPS is fine, don't buy another one.

Check the IAP and MAP sensors. Unplugging them is a good way to test them, once the ECU figures out the sensor is not there, it will go into limp mode, with predefined "safe" values, instead of the wacky values it might be getting from the sensor. Those two sensors can very well explain why it is fouling plugs, as it is a speed/density FI, getting incorrect values to calculate the amount of fuel that is required could be it.

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post #15 of 56 (permalink) Old 06-02-2013, 07:02 PM
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I would suspect its the rectifier, if you can borrow one from a friend and try to check its respond. Lastly would be the TPS and ECU.
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