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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Big Brother is indeed watching!

Just when you thought you had freedom, Britain is deploying a system of "tens of thousands of cameras" throughout the country to monitor the movement of ALL vehicles. According to the article I just read these systems use license plate recognition that is already available to record your vehicles location and automatically put it into a data base that will be able to monitor your driving habits, places driven, and ultimately how long it took you to get there (how fast you were going). Of course the canned response as to it's justification is "if your not doing anything wrong, then it shouldn't be of any concern to you", gives George Orwells book '1984' a chillingly prophetic look into what is slowly becoming reality. The system is expected to progress to facial recognition and automatic dating and filing of individuals movements as well. Though the system will definately have it's benefits in law enforcement for actual crimes, the potential abuse of the system is scary at minimum.

With the 'Patriot Act' here in the US having wide sweeping control and authority over many things, I wonder how long it will be before a system similar to this one gets implemented here as well? It seems every year we progress more and more toward being a country with less and less freedom from ourselves. Motorcycles are a great expression of our freedom, and yes most riders do break posted speed limits somewhat regularly, but it's not like that automatically means you will be killed and take a school bus full of children along with you. Interpretation of what is meant by laws, and judgment by most Police if you truely are a danger, is what gives flexibility to driving laws. A system such as Britains could quickly lead to a cut and dry 'you were speeding' ticket being issued automatically by a computer, no more need for Police patrols anymore, just for apprehension reasons.

Limiters on your vehicle (or bike) that will adjust your maximum speed capability based on the road your on is not a fantasy, it's already available. The 'On Star' type systems already in use on many vehicles already have this capability to monitor your driving, unknown to many it also has the ability to control your driving as well by adjusting buffers in the engine management system to control your speed if so desired. I have been watching and waiting for these systems to become mandatory in all vehicles, including bikes, since I first read about them in the mid-90's. Implementing the speed limiters in those systems is a simple act that uses GPS and the already mapped out road system here in the US to automatically set the max speed for a particular road.

Just think, soon we could all be plugged in just like in the Matrix, wouldn't that be great? Then Big Brother could make sure that we did absolutely everything perfect! Enjoy the freedoms you now experience while riding on the streets because I'm afraid that soon enough those freedoms will be greatly controlled.

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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:02 PM
 
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Well, knowing this crowd, we'd probably rip it out and install a mod in it's place.
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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:11 PM
 
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I know something like this will end up happening it's far away but it's coming. It's sad but too many people are dying due to wreckless driving it sort of needs to be done.
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:14 PM
 
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thats pretty scary to think about, cant say id enjoy that kind of life
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigintninja
Well, knowing this crowd, we'd probably rip it out and install a mod in it's place.
That would indeed work for bypassing an onboard system, but it's pretty difficult to cheat a video camera since it will know instantly if your plate is legit. In the event of not seeing a plate it would probably dispatch an Officer to your location in the event you were doin something illegal or to get you into compliance.

I would also imagine that if your vehicle was identified by a camera along the road, instantly checked by the computer, and wasn't showing your vehicle as operational according to the 'On Star' type system, then it could automatically dispatch Police. The capability of computers nowdays is scary, it's just a matter of how scary Big Brother wants to use them.

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What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:17 PM
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yeah. exotic car rental companies,like Gotham Dream Cars,already use the vehicle monitering systems. if you go too far over the speed limit,it'll shut you down temperarily,and if you go too fast too many times,they shut it down for good,and come pick up the car.
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superwoman
I know something like this will end up happening it's far away but it's coming. It's sad but too many people are dying due to wreckless driving it sort of needs to be done.
Another "it's for the children" argument. Turning society into a Orwellian surveillance society isn't going to create safety. These traffic cameras at stoplights where I live have increased accidents, people are slamming on their brakes as soon as the light turns yellow. I had to do a 10 foot stoppie when some bitch did that in front of me in Raleigh to avoid running a yellow.

Studies have shown these traffic cameras dont decrease accidents, they are in fact a factor in increasing them....

http://www.motorists.org/issues/enfo...obeng2004.html

"The results do not support the view that red light cameras reduce crashes. Instead, we find that RLCs are associated with higher levels of many types and severity categories of crashes. (emphasis added)

An overall time trend during the study indicated that accidents are becoming less frequent, about 5 percent per year.

However, the intersections where RLCs were installed are not experiencing the same decrease. When analyzing total crashes, we find that RLCs have a statistically significant (p<0.001) and large (40% increase) effect on accident rates.

In addition, RLCs have a statistically significant, positive impact on rear-end accidents, sideswipes, and accidents involving cars turning left (traveling on the same roadway). "
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95FZR*1000*
yeah. exotic car rental companies,like Gotham Dream Cars,already use the vehicle monitering systems. if you go too far over the speed limit,it'll shut you down temperarily,and if you go too fast too many times,they shut it down for good,and come pick up the car.
A guy at work had an article about some guy that rented a car, drove some amount of distance, then returned to the rental compay to find a reciept showing that his credit card had been charged something like $1000+ due to him speeding! Turned out that in the fine print of the rental agreement it said that if you went over a certain speed you would be charged a monetary fine per minute above that speed. That vehicle had an 'On Star' like unit which narked on him before he ever got back to the rental company. From what that article said a number of the rental companies are starting to put these on their fleets of vehicles, what it also does is tracks the use of the vehicle as well.

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What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:37 PM
 
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Ill remember all this before my next ferrari rental, guess I never even knew any of this was going on
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:47 PM
 
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BTW, those GPS systems can be easily defeated. If you can find the GPS antenna, just case the thing in aluminum, and there is no way the signal can be sent. Now if the car records the driving data in an internal database, that's a different matter. You would need to find a way to remove the system from the car so that it couldn't be used against you. This is a huge argument for not buying anymore cars new. Stick with the old ones. Also, buying a new car is likely to get you screwed in the long run, if the car breaks, the way things are going with automakers refusing to share ECM program codes with independent auto mechanics, not only will you not be able to fix the car yourself, neither will your mechanic. You will be forced to take your car to the auto dealership for a royal ass raping.

Don't buy any new motorcycles or cars with that shit on it. Just not worth it.
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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeyed
Don't buy any new motorcycles or cars with that shit on it. Just not worth it.
What do you do after it becomes mandate for ALL new cars and bikes to have it?

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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeyed
Also, buying a new car is likely to get you screwed in the long run, if the car breaks, the way things are going with automakers refusing to share ECM program codes with independent auto mechanics, not only will you not be able to fix the car yourself, neither will your mechanic. You will be forced to take your car to the auto dealership for a royal ass raping.
The automakers have been wanting to go to a 'locked hood' policy for some time now, the problem is the need to get to some things under the hood by the owner. The option they are really pushing is a locking shroud which covers the engine and does not allow the owner to do anything to the engine themself, including change the oil! The owner could add oil and check it's level, but not change it themself. Of course the auto makers are claiming it's for environmental reasons and recycling the oil and filter (*cough* *cough* bullshit *cough*)!

I have heard similar things for motorcycles as well, like sealed engines that can't be opened without special keys/tools, that includes being able to change the exhaust and computer.

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What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.

Last edited by GSXR RACER MIKE; 12-29-2005 at 05:07 PM.
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 03:20 PM
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When I bought my honda accord new in 99 (all new design) i went to go get an airfilter for it. Couldn't find the damn thing anywhere. NO ONE carried it. Turned out that Honda never released the design, patent, whatever to FRAM, etc to be made. It took almost 3yrs for me to find one in a store.

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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 03:31 PM
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Actually, Britain isn't deploying 'tens of thousands of cameras' to monitor the movement of all vehicles. I gues what you read is a journalist jumping to conclusions as usual.

What happens is that a civil servant comes up with an idea that 'may' be possible with current and upcoming technology, Ministers think it might be a 'good idea' and then they 'leak' the idea and sit back to see what the reaction is, and that's the case with 'vehicle recognition' cameras.

We've had speed cameras here for a few years now, you go through a camera higher than the legal speed (posted for that road) and you get a nip (notice of intended prosecution) which is usually 3 points on your licence and a fine.

Now speed cameras are universally unpopular, initially they were intended for 'danger black spots' to reduce accidents, eg near schools, but then they were put on perfectly safe roads, and hidden, so quickly became viewed as 'revenue earners' for the local constabulary.

Where we are now is that a lot of cameras are actually being removed because they are obviously 'not' on a dangerous road, and also they now have to be highly visible, not hidden.

Personally I 'sort of agree' with the vehicle recognition cameras if it identifies drivers who drive without insurance/road tax or licence.

...and GSXR_RACER_MIKE dude, change the colour of your posts willya, light grey on white is not easy to read.
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 12-29-2005, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomma
Actually, Britain isn't deploying 'tens of thousands of cameras' to monitor the movement of all vehicles. I gues what you read is a journalist jumping to conclusions as usual.
Here is a link to the original story and related stories within it: Article . I didn't originally include the link due to how slow that site loads, figured I would save those without fast connections the frustration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bomma
...and GSXR_RACER_MIKE dude, change the colour of your posts willya, light grey on white is not easy to read.
I had totally forgot that there were other color schemes you can use for this site, I have used the black with blue background since I first started coming here to this site, the silver works well on that background. Time for a new color.

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What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
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