Went from a front 65 series to a 70...

fallclassic02 · 05-14-2006, 03:52 PM

So after about 4,000 on the original 207 Bumslops I put some new shoes on my Zzr (they were totally shot to hell, especially the sides of the front tire) and instead of putting the 65 series on the front I went with a 70 series. Most all the R class sportbikes come with a 70 and from what I learned the 70, being a little thicker would provide better traction and a more subtle, predictable handling characteristic.

Well, after running this 70 and getting used to it all I can say is WOW! What a great upgrade for these bikes, the handling and control is much improved and in every high speed turn I can see a noticale increase in my overall speeds. The tire just feels better and the bike drops into the turns way smoother than with the 65. It is always hard to tell the flaws in something until you try an alternatve and I was happy with the 65 until now. All I can say is I will never put a 65 on my Zzr again, I am all about the 70! The bike looks better too, it doesn't have the stinkbug look anymore, it looks a little more balanced like a new ZX-6 or R6 or Gixx. Of course those ikes run the 70 too.

For those of you looking to get tyres I recommend the 70 series front (no need to change the size/series of the rear), it is a noticable upgrade that will surprise you and make you wonder why Kawy didn't go with the 70 in the first place with this scoot.

Has anyone else done this and abandoned the 65 series front?

qiknes · 05-14-2006, 09:32 PM

Nope, just ordered a set of Pilot Powers and got the factory size. Had I read this first I would give the 70 a try. I got about 4000 miles out of my tires also.
I'll try the 70 next time I suppose.

RedShift · 05-15-2006, 06:00 AM

FallClassic. What make of tyre did you get to replace the originals?

fallclassic02 · 05-16-2006, 12:39 PM

You know, as much as I hate Dunlop tyres (except their motocross tyres) I decided on the D-208. I wanted the Pilot Powers or the M-1s but the low mileage from these sticky tyres kind of turned me off. The 208 is a better than sport touring tyre but should have a little more life than the sticky compounds. A little, not much more but I figure an extra 1,000 miles is something I can hang my hat on.

To be fair to the 208 setup they feel great and is a huge upgrade from the 207. I totally dig the 70 series on the front, I'm surprised more Zzr peeps have not done this. What were the good people over at KHI thinking?

ZZRrocket · 05-24-2006, 07:02 AM

I don't know what tires you are interested in buying, the Dunlop fitment chart recommends a 120/60ZR17 as a replacment tire for the stock 120/65/ZR17. I'm sticking with a company that makes the proper size tire for the front of my 06 ZZR600. Switching tires sizes IMO can upset the geometry of the bike. I'm sure KHI put the 120/65R17 tire on the front of the bike for a specific reason. I will see if I can find out from KHI. I will let you guys know when I get an answer. I'm either going with the Avon Viper's or the
Michelin's pilot Powers.

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/fitmentguide.asp

Avon suggests the same 120/60R17, But now makes the new 120/65R17 AV59 Viper Sport.

http://www.avonmotorcycle.com/us/en/Fitments.asp

Michelin makes the Pilot Power in a 120/65ZR17 size.

http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/fr...nee=4c484f424e

Continental recommends the ContiForce 120/60ZR17 on page 56 of there tire fitment guide.

http://www.conti-online.com/generato...ndbuch_en.html

You can see that "most" motorcycle tire companies suggest a 120/60ZR17 tire for the front of a 2005-06 ZRR. I'm sure these companies have done extensive testing of these tires on the motorcycle in which they are intended. Going with a 120/70ZR17 on the front is something I would not do.

RESPONSE FROM DUNLOP:

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your motorcycle tire questions. We suggest using the 120/60-17 front tire on the '00
Kawasaki ZX600 ZX6R due to the possible interference with tire growth when using the larger 120/70-17.

Here's the response that I received from AVON Tires.

Hi James,

I believe these are the OE sizes for Kawasaki 600s from the year 2000.
ZX-6R 2000 - 2006 120/65ZR17 - 180/55ZR17
ZZR 600 2000 - 2004 120/60ZR17 - 160/60ZR17
ZZR 600 2005 - 2006 120/65ZR17 - 180/55ZR17

Tyre companies normally just quote the OE tyre size for replacement tyres. Recommending a 120/70ZR17 instead of a 120/60ZR17 runs the risk of the larger diameter 70 series tyre rubbing on the front fender. Tyre companies do however normally test different sizes on the front of these bikes and recommend accordingly.
A 120/60ZR17 tyre turns quick but has a short sidewall. Tyre sidewall can act like a secondary suspension, 120/60 tyres are ok on smooth roads but are prone to upsetting the bikes handling when hitting undulations or bumps in rougher roads. This is where 120/70 tyres are better as they have a larger sidewall and are therefore more forgiving, especially at high lean angles. Bike suspension moves up and down in the same plane as the bikes lean angle, so if you are leaning over at 40 degrees and hit a bump, the suspension wants to move vertically but can only move in the 40 degree plane. This means that for a half inch vertical bump, the suspension would have to move around three quarters of an inch. So having a tyre with an effective 'secondary' suspension which dampens some of these bumps helps the suspension and gives a smoother ride.
Most companies now produce a 120/65ZR17 which is a good medium of the two.

For your 2006 ZZR 600, we now recommend both 120/60ZR17 and 120/65ZR17. The 120/65ZR17 only comes in AV59 Viper Sport size. If you want to fit an AV45 Sport Touring or soft compound AV59 Viper Supersport, then you will have to fit a 120/60ZR17.

Our new fitment guide and website will be updated shortly.

ZX-6R 1990 -1997 120/60ZR17 (55W) AV45-ST, AV59 Sport 160/60ZR17 (69W) AV46-ST, AV60 Sport, Supersport
ZX-6R 1998 -1999 120/60ZR17 (55W) AV45-ST, AV59 Sport 170/60ZR17 (72W) AV46-ST, AV60 Sport
ZX-6R 2000 - 120/60ZR17 (58W) or 120/70ZR17 (58W) AV45-ST, AV59 Sport, Supersport or 120/65ZR17 (58W) AV59 Sport 180/55ZR17 (73W) AV46-ST, AV60 Sport, Supersport
ZX-6RR 2003 - 120/60ZR17 (58W) AV45-ST, AV59 Sport, Supersport or 120/65ZR17 (58W) AV59 Sport 180/55ZR17 (73W) AV46-ST, AV60 Sport, Supersport
120/65ZR17 (58W) AV59 Sport 180/55ZR17 (73W) AV46-ST, AV60 Sport
ZZ-R 600 1990 -2004 120/60ZR17 (55W) AV45-ST, AV59 Sport, Supersport 160/60ZR17 (69W) AV46-ST, AV60 Sport, Supersport
ZZ-R 600 2005 - 120/60ZR17 (58W) AV45-ST, AV59 Sport, Supersport or 120/65ZR17 (58W) AV59 Sport 180/55ZR17 (73W) AV46-ST, AV60 Sport, Supersport

I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Peter J McNally

M/C Technical Product Manager

fallclassic02 · 05-24-2006, 03:41 PM

Very interesting. Nice work Rocket! The first concern we talked about was if it would clear and it does being it was the first thing to check. After riding a few hundred miles on the 70 I absolutely love it and being that it is a standard tyre for most 600 bikes and really gives the bike a more balanced feel I will happily stay with the better 70. Essentially now I see it as an upgrade. It feels much better and looks better too and of course it does not interfere in any way with the fender on these bikes. To each their own though... thanks for the research.

ZZRrocket · 05-24-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallclassic02

Very interesting. Nice work Rocket! The first concern we talked about was if it would clear and it does being it was the first thing to check. After riding a few hundred miles on the 70 I absolutely love it and being that it is a standard tyre for most 600 bikes and really gives the bike a more balanced feel I will happily stay with the better 70. Essentially now I see it as an upgrade. It feels much better and looks better too and of course it does not interfere in any way with the fender on these bikes. To each their own though... thanks for the research.

No problem, I was curious about the 65 0r 70 issue myself. So I thought I would email the people who make the tires that we buy and ask them. And see what they had to say. I hope this helps everyone.

T123 · 05-24-2006, 04:15 PM

I will have to agree with fall cclassic, i love the 70 series.... but very interesting, thank you for the research, deffinitely usefull for future reference. thanks

fiveninerzero · 05-24-2006, 05:03 PM

glad that it works out for you

fallclassic02 · 05-24-2006, 06:49 PM

Has anyone bought one that came with 60 series fronts?

Funny how the manufacturers say to go with one thing but admit that the other way might hook up better in the turns.

Either way this bike kicks butt so I guess we are splitting hairs. In some ways that is what it is all about, the fine tuning and understanding of the subtle differences adjustments make to the performance.

qiknes · 05-26-2006, 11:05 PM

I just put Pilot Powers on mine. Same size as factory. They turn quicker due to how they are made and the tire compound they use is suppose to increase traction and milage. All the guys I ride with from the East Tennesee Riders love them so I am giving them a try. What I read about them was impressive. Made to turn in easier, provide a bigger contact patch and as I mentioned above.
I'll let ya know what I think after a couple of runs through "The Dragon"!!
Later!

ZZRrocket · 05-27-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qiknes

I just put Pilot Powers on mine. Same size as factory. They turn quicker due to how they are made and the tire compound they use is suppose to increase traction and milage. All the guys I ride with from the East Tennesee Riders love them so I am giving them a try. What I read about them was impressive. Made to turn in easier, provide a bigger contact patch and as I mentioned above.
I'll let ya know what I think after a couple of runs through "The Dragon"!!
Later!

Cool sounds like my choice for my next set of tires too. I will be in the Deals Gap area on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th of July.

This will be my 2nd trip of three trips this year. I'm also going again in October.

T123 · 05-31-2006, 02:41 PM

I took my 70's up to Palomar mt. this last weekend and they did absolutely perfect. of course i had already adjusted my suspension,. however i had no and i mean NO problems with these larger tires.

ZZRrocket · 05-31-2006, 03:38 PM

I just got off the phone with KHI. Not to upset anyone here, but here's what that had to say. Basically they stated that KHI engineers put the 120/65R17 tire on the front of the ZZR600 for a specific reason. KHI engineers felt that this tire size what best suited for the bike. I asked for technical data as to how they arrived at there choice for a 65 tire. They stated that they were unable to release this information. Oh well, I tried. I'm still convinced that it has something to do with the geometry of the bike.

Also while reading my Kawasaki Service Manual Part #99924-1254-04.

WHEELS/TIRES 9-11

! WARNING !

To ensure safe handling and stability, use only the recommended standard tires for replacement, inflated to the standard pressure.

driftin240 · 06-01-2006, 05:15 PM

^^ I'm glad to see that someone does actual research on issues rather than just assuming the info they have is correct.

As I like how my bike handles right now, I will probably go with a 65 again, just a different brand/style. As for the manual, I know it's what Kawi suggests, but I work on cars everyday and they put some tires on cars that are junk and of a bad size just due to pricing. If it's cheap, sometimes thats what they're looking for. Not saying that Kawi went cheap on the bike, but sometimes it's what happens when they want to keep the MSRP low.

If the tire fits, accounting for travel and such...use it!

With my boring time I did the math.
A 120/65R17 will have an overall Diameter of 23.14" when new.
A 120/70R17 will have an overall Diameter of 23.61" when new.

So the difference is a bit less than 1/2 inch. To some, thats a lot. But for the average commuting/recreational rider that SHOULD NOT be a concern if the fender allows 1/2" or more of free space.

Just my .02