Ignition Advancer - Page 2

SyntheticReality · 07-13-2004, 12:25 PM

True, I think I will pass it up for now, I am already seeming to have some problems because of these intake mods.

KawZX7R · 07-13-2004, 06:38 PM

Well i talked to the company today that makes the Factory Pro Advancers, and the guy said he never heard of any ones bike getting messed up from having an advancer on the bike with out building up the engine, he said they have been selling those things for 10 to 15 years but he was kinda weird cause i said to him, so theres no way that my engine could get messed up from having the advancer on? hes like well you never know but probably not i think it will be ok lol so im going to take mine off and send it back cause with a manager guy that has worked at a comp that long and tells a person that has bought a product from there comp what he said lol i do not want to buy there products

jim schmidt · 07-13-2004, 11:37 PM

Your 4 degree advancer is probably not a problem (also probably not an advantage though.) Plenty of people are using them and I haven't heard of any problems.

But I'd be leery of an 8 degree advancer. That's quite a bit.

KawZX7R · 07-13-2004, 11:54 PM

i took mine off and really didnt notice any differance from having it on and then putting stock back on i thought i noticed somthing but i guess not lol

Tiamat · 07-14-2004, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

If you have modified your head by porting or shaving, you may need to advance timing to meet the ideal burn completion point since a bigger or more compressed charge burns slower. This is why higher compression engines require higher octane (faster burning) fuel.

Just wanted to clear this up. Higher octane fuels (generally) burn slower, or rather at a more controlled rate, than lower octane fuels. They are used in higher compression (and hotter) engines to help reduce 'knock' - that being detonation. Ignition advancers can help increase HP by reducing the additional time the higher octane fuel requires to complete the burn by starting the burn process a few degrees sooner than normal. In a car engine, the ignition advance is usually vairable, controlled by spring tension against RPMs (as in older cars with weights and springs under the distributor cap), but on motorcycles, the ignition rate is fixed, whether it's stock, +2, +4 (or whatever) throughout the entire RPM range. Basically, in a tuned, higher compression, hotter running motor that needs a higher octane fuel to eliminate detonation, an ignition advancer can help get back horsepower lost to the slower burning fuel.

SyntheticReality · 07-18-2004, 10:13 AM

I talked to my mechanic yesterday, and he said that an ignition advancer is a good mod if it's done right. He said your best bet is to get an adjustable one, and most commonly, the best amount of advancement to set it for is 2.5 degrees. I think I will go ahead and order one and have him set it. Does it sound like what he's saying is true?

Tiamat · 07-18-2004, 02:04 PM

There's no magic number of advance, so saying the best is at 2.5 degrees is simply a guess. The only way to know what would be best for your particular bike is to put on a degree wheel and actually check what your timing is set at. Then you could use an adjustable ignition advancer, make small adjustments, test, and compare the results.

jim schmidt · 07-18-2004, 07:15 PM

Tiamat is correct about my mistake on octane and burn speed. I hate it when that happens. ;)

Amish Marauder · 07-19-2004, 01:31 AM

Jim is dumb...sorry jimbo, but advancing the timing will NOT hurt this bike at all, and a +4 degree is perfect. 400rpms faster reving engine....peppier, stronger, chrisper...WAY WAY WAY better gas mileage...what mor do you want....I really researched this before buying one...i made the right decision...

Amish Marauder · 07-19-2004, 01:34 AM

by the way, the people i know that bought the adjustable version settled on +4 degree's...just buy the +4 degree factory pro advacer and save some bucks.

also i have a jet kit AND BOLT ON MUZZY'S...MAKE MAKE A DIFFERENCE. sorry for the caps...

jim schmidt · 07-19-2004, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amish Marauder

Jim is dumb...sorry jimbo, but advancing the timing will NOT hurt this bike at all, and a +4 degree is perfect. 400rpms faster reving engine....peppier, stronger, chrisper...WAY WAY WAY better gas mileage...what mor do you want....I really researched this before buying one...i made the right decision...

Could be true (probably not,) but which dyno did you verify it on?

SyntheticReality · 07-19-2004, 12:40 PM

how do you test to find out what degrees are best?

Tiamat · 07-19-2004, 12:46 PM

dyno, or if you're really good, seat of the pants feel. you might also be able to tell via the fuel mileage you get, but that would take a tankfull of time to determine.

jim schmidt · 07-19-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SyntheticReality

how do you test to find out what degrees are best?

Real Dyno. The differences are pretty subtle and well within the range of Butt Dyno Error. But 8 degrees is way out.

But I think the factory does a pretty good job of telling you what it should be. There is a whole bunch of stuff that used to improve bikes that doesn't work on modern engines. I can remember when we used to replace the entire ignition system: plugs, wires, coils, ignitor, timing and it would make a difference for the better. Since the late 80s, save your money.

The adage "Spend it on Racing School" has never been more true.

toomanyninjas · 03-03-2009, 06:45 AM

I know this is actually a many years old thread. however, i have a zx7, and i am planning on getting my jet kit (PO said it was installed –*it was not) installed and tuned, muzzy's full installed and tuned, k&n is already installed, and –*dun-duuuuun –*the +4 advancer (or the adjustable one, but it's $100 more!).

The local shop is now advertising dyno time. Would anyone like to see before/after dyno charts? Or maybe even before parts/after parts/after parts + tune?

One thing that comes to mind is here in DC/MD/VA we get 93 octane gas with 10-15% ethanol whereas out in CA I could only get 91 (I left CA in 1999, so this may have changed). If it's the case that +4 is safe across the country, it might be that +6 is safe out here in on the mid-atlantic. It might also mean that +4 is definitely safe here, if not out on the west coast.

So I dunno. Let me know if anyone is interested in some dyno charts on the above pieces. I'm certainly curious.