I need help getting the most out of my limited track time this year.

[bittersweetryan]

As most of you are aware my track season is getting off to a rather late start this year. As of right now I'll only be getting in 4 track days this year (1 NESBA, 2 PTT, 1 Blackhawk) and I really want to make the most out of my limited time.

I'd like some suggestions from all you fast guys on how I can best spend my time on the track. I've heard all the things like "Work on one skill at a time" before but I'd like something a little more specific and a little more concrete. Something like "this or that most important, work on that first and do this and this to work on it"

I'm really going to try to get as much CR time as possiable this year as well, last year I wasn't really lucky with getting much CR time. Todd, I'm sure you already have a bunch of people hounding you for help, but if you at BHF on Sept 1 I'd really, really appreciate any time you could give me.

[malik ross]

Originally Posted by bittersweetryan

As most of you are aware my track season is getting off to a rather late start this year. As of right now I'll only be getting in 4 track days this year (1 NESBA, 2 PTT, 1 Blackhawk) and I really want to make the most out of my limited time.

I'd like some suggestions from all you fast guys on how I can best spend my time on the track. I've heard all the things like "Work on one skill at a time" before but I'd like something a little more specific and a little more concrete. Something like "this or that most important, work on that first and do this and this to work on it"

I'm really going to try to get as much CR time as possiable this year as well, last year I wasn't really lucky with getting much CR time. Todd, I'm sure you already have a bunch of people hounding you for help, but if you at BHF on Sept 1 I'd really, really appreciate any time you could give me.

i should be there on 09/01/07 either riding or pitbitching and can give you some help.

i'm not sure where you are at or what goals you are trying to accomplish. faster laps? better control? my advice is always the same. work on being smooth. work on being comfortable. work on being consistent.

reference points are the first step to those objectives. reference points help lead or pull you around the track. they are part of the plan. they are part of the steps to follow with the goal of getting around the track. when you know what you are going to do and where you are going to it it keeps you consistent and smooth. lap times don't matter if you aren't able to repeat them over and over again. a lap that is considerably faster than the average usually means you were just flying around by the seat of your pants and not following a plan. you have to determine and find your reference points. what works for Todd would put me in the hospital. what works for me might do the same for you.

once you are consistent you can determine areas where you can go faster comfortably. it might take all day...it might take a lap...it might take 4. you have marks that you can change and adjust from and see the result of the changes. a little later here...a little earlier there...a little wider here...a little tighter there...

[Murf99]

Hmmm... as usual Malik's post was so well written that it leaves the rest of us little to say.

I'll just emphasize a few of his points that I feel are significant through my own personal experience, and add a few suggestions of my own...

1 - Concentrate on concentrating. Sounds kinda zen like - but it's really easy to just go out and turn laps mindlessly. Concentrate on having a plan to get around each series of corners fast and smooth. Concentrate on executing that plan. Concentrate on evaluating how well you execute your plan. Concentrate on opportunaties for improvement. That's a lot of concentrating and it takes quite a bit of effort.

2 - Have an explicit goal for every session - rather, a plan for the session. Not just "brake later" or "carry more corner speed" - but incorperate both stratigic and tactical improvements in your riding onto your session plan. For example (stratigic) - "I will commit to only one lean angle in every corner." Or (tactical) "I will look at the tuft of grass as my apex refrence point in T4."

3 - I like to allot the last session of the day to turn my 'fast laps'. The track is generally less populated (as people have started going home), you are warmed up, you're used to the track, the day, the enviornment, and you have a day of learning and concentrating under your belt. I'm also usually tired and beat down (which, onestly, helps me ride better). 70% of the trackdays I do, I turn my fastest laps in the last session. It's a great 'summary' to the day - a great take-away that encompases all of your progress for the day.

4 - Stick around for the festivites. Cookout or dinner afterwards... stuff like that.

I will be CR'ing Labor Day weekend, one day for sure. I will make time to ride with you. Hopefully, we can discuss your plan before and after any sessions we do, and discuss modifications that need to be made to that plan. Fundamentally, you're a good rider with an excellent base - we definately have a good foundation to start 'the year' with.

[rsvRadtke]

My thoughts (after making this mistake myself)... let it happen... and it will.. happen. Seat time is going to be your greatest coach and validation and if you push too hard to be "faster", you may push too far and end up in the grass.

I enjoyed the following books:
Total Control
A Twist of the Wrist I/II - keith code

There's also a book called "Track Day guide" or something.. which features some local tracks to the midwest as well as a few of the local celebrities (Matt Drucker, Jonah at Momentumphoto, Carol, etc..)

Trying to keep up with someone faster and who knew how to ride helped build some confidence. Riding on the back of Pridmore's OEM-stock GSXR1000 at Heartland Park brought a new level of realization as well.

[bittersweetryan]

I just spent a little time thinking about Malik, Todd, and James said and a little my progression last year and what I hope to achieve this year. I'll actually be doing the same amount of track days this year as last year, but they will be a little less spread out.

So last year my first time ever on a track was at Blackhawk with PTT where it rained most of the day. When it finally dried off I spent the last few sessions riding like I did on the street, just a little bit faster. I thought I was doing a great job hanging off the bike and whatnot. When the pictures came back I was mortified at how little I was off the bike and how slow I actually was.

My second track day was at Road America with STT's novice group. I remember telling my CR at the beginning of the day I was mostly concerned with corner entry speed that day. However due to their structure I never felt like I was riding my own ride and focused too much on playing follow the leader so I didn't feel like I came out of there having learned a whole lot.

Next up was Blackhawk with PTT. This day I remember my focus was on body position and form. This was also my first track day NOT on OEM tires. Anyways, I felt like I was definately starting to make some progress. I felt that things weren't happening so quickly out there. I could actually focus more on entry points and apexes. Going around the track I was able to spot the pink dots one of the schools uses for reference points something that I never would've seen on my first 2 track days. Some of the pictures came back and I actually looked OK on form, my head was now on the inside of the center of the bike and my butt actually looked like it was off the seat. I know lap times don't mean shit but at the end of the day my last 2 sessions I was around 1:38 - 1:40. I was pretty discouraged that I was still slow as poop after I felt like things were coming together.

Lastly I went to Autobahn South. Once again I wanted to focus on form and form the pictures I saw my form was pretty OK early in the day and a little worse later in the day. I was again able to run somewhat consistant lap times, untill the session before lunch when my front tire pushed while i was coming out of hot pit for some reason. I wasn't able to shake the uneasy feeling till the last 2 sessions of the day. However those sessions were the best feeling I ever had.

Thinking back on those days one thing I was terriable at were the straights. I'm pretty sure most of the laps I didn't even reach WOT for a second on them. I'd always, always break at the highest breaking marker and always go into the next turn feeling like I could've carried more corner speed. Then next time around I'd do the exact same thing.

So my goals for this year...well as Malik said continue working on being smooth and consistant. Be more focused on my riding on the track, last year I think I spent a good portion of track time just geting used to the speed. I started a track journal so I hope to utilize that and write a few things to work on before a track day and focus on working on that skill while I'm out there.

OK, now that I've wasted 30 minutes of ALC's time I better get back to being productive.

[Tgunn13]

Originally Posted by bittersweetryan

I just spent a little time thinking about Malik, Todd, and James said and a little my progression last year and what I hope to achieve this year. I'll actually be doing the same amount of track days this year as last year, but they will be a little less spread out.

So last year my first time ever on a track was at Blackhawk with PTT where it rained most of the day. When it finally dried off I spent the last few sessions riding like I did on the street, just a little bit faster. I thought I was doing a great job hanging off the bike and whatnot. When the pictures came back I was mortified at how little I was off the bike and how slow I actually was.

My second track day was at Road America with STT's novice group. I remember telling my CR at the beginning of the day I was mostly concerned with corner entry speed that day. However due to their structure I never felt like I was riding my own ride and focused too much on playing follow the leader so I didn't feel like I came out of there having learned a whole lot.

Next up was Blackhawk with PTT. This day I remember my focus was on body position and form. This was also my first track day NOT on OEM tires. Anyways, I felt like I was definately starting to make some progress. I felt that things weren't happening so quickly out there. I could actually focus more on entry points and apexes. Going around the track I was able to spot the pink dots one of the schools uses for reference points something that I never would've seen on my first 2 track days. Some of the pictures came back and I actually looked OK on form, my head was now on the inside of the center of the bike and my butt actually looked like it was off the seat. I know lap times don't mean shit but at the end of the day my last 2 sessions I was around 1:38 - 1:40. I was pretty discouraged that I was still slow as poop after I felt like things were coming together.

Lastly I went to Autobahn South. Once again I wanted to focus on form and form the pictures I saw my form was pretty OK early in the day and a little worse later in the day. I was again able to run somewhat consistant lap times, untill the session before lunch when my front tire pushed while i was coming out of hot pit for some reason. I wasn't able to shake the uneasy feeling till the last 2 sessions of the day. However those sessions were the best feeling I ever had.

Thinking back on those days one thing I was terriable at were the straights. I'm pretty sure most of the laps I didn't even reach WOT for a second on them. I'd always, always break at the highest breaking marker and always go into the next turn feeling like I could've carried more corner speed. Then next time around I'd do the exact same thing.

So my goals for this year...well as Malik said continue working on being smooth and consistant. Be more focused on my riding on the track, last year I think I spent a good portion of track time just geting used to the speed. I started a track journal so I hope to utilize that and write a few things to work on before a track day and focus on working on that skill while I'm out there.

OK, now that I've wasted 30 minutes of ALC's time I better get back to being productive.

That's a pretty insightful post, and the answers that predicated it are from far better sources than I will ever be. The only bit of insight that I feel compelled to write is for your "issue" with the straights. Two things have helped me develop the confidence to open the throttle... 1. Brian Wink at one time told me to "Just open it up, You're not on a 1000cc bike, it's not going to hurt you!" Low and behold, he's right. 600cc bikes (and my 675 and your 636 don't produce enough hp to get you in too much trouble as you are accelerating out of the corner. Don't misread to go to WOT while at full lean, but if you have good tires, and are relatively smooth (Malik's advice) you can get to WOT just past the apex of most corners and should be slowly rolling on at or just before the apex (according to Lee Parks "Total Control"). 2. Super Dave Rosno makes sure to emphasize that the brakes on your sportbike (assuming again, good tires, and a functional braking system) can slow you faster than you realize. You can stop as fast or faster than you can accelerate. Don't be afraid to use the brakes, and conversely the throttle. WOT to aggressive braking is a better and more consistent way to get around the track than trying to modulate your speed with "maintenence throttle"...

Just my .02, and welcome back to the track!!

[bittersweetryan]

Tom, thanks for the advise. When is Ace going to host another track day? Two of the days I did last year were Ace sponsored days.

[bittersweetryan]

Oh yeah one more thing I wanted to say about my riding is that I cannot my own reference point for the life of me. If its not a clearly marked breaking marker I'm completely lost.

[malik ross]

Originally Posted by bittersweetryan

I just spent a little time thinking about Malik, Todd, and James said and a little my progression last year and what I hope to achieve this year. I'll actually be doing the same amount of track days this year as last year, but they will be a little less spread out.

So last year my first time ever on a track was at Blackhawk with PTT where it rained most of the day. When it finally dried off I spent the last few sessions riding like I did on the street, just a little bit faster. I thought I was doing a great job hanging off the bike and whatnot. When the pictures came back I was mortified at how little I was off the bike and how slow I actually was.

My second track day was at Road America with STT's novice group. I remember telling my CR at the beginning of the day I was mostly concerned with corner entry speed that day. However due to their structure I never felt like I was riding my own ride and focused too much on playing follow the leader so I didn't feel like I came out of there having learned a whole lot.

Next up was Blackhawk with PTT. This day I remember my focus was on body position and form. This was also my first track day NOT on OEM tires. Anyways, I felt like I was definately starting to make some progress. I felt that things weren't happening so quickly out there. I could actually focus more on entry points and apexes. Going around the track I was able to spot the pink dots one of the schools uses for reference points something that I never would've seen on my first 2 track days. Some of the pictures came back and I actually looked OK on form, my head was now on the inside of the center of the bike and my butt actually looked like it was off the seat. I know lap times don't mean shit but at the end of the day my last 2 sessions I was around 1:38 - 1:40. I was pretty discouraged that I was still slow as poop after I felt like things were coming together.

Lastly I went to Autobahn South. Once again I wanted to focus on form and form the pictures I saw my form was pretty OK early in the day and a little worse later in the day. I was again able to run somewhat consistant lap times, untill the session before lunch when my front tire pushed while i was coming out of hot pit for some reason. I wasn't able to shake the uneasy feeling till the last 2 sessions of the day. However those sessions were the best feeling I ever had.

Thinking back on those days one thing I was terriable at were the straights. I'm pretty sure most of the laps I didn't even reach WOT for a second on them. I'd always, always break at the highest breaking marker and always go into the next turn feeling like I could've carried more corner speed. Then next time around I'd do the exact same thing.

So my goals for this year...well as Malik said continue working on being smooth and consistant. Be more focused on my riding on the track, last year I think I spent a good portion of track time just geting used to the speed. I started a track journal so I hope to utilize that and write a few things to work on before a track day and focus on working on that skill while I'm out there.

OK, now that I've wasted 30 minutes of ALC's time I better get back to being productive.

different people have different goals on the track and what ever is a valid goal to them is a valid goal to me. personally, i never cared about what i looked on the track past a fleeting moment of vanity. (i'm fat...regardless of how i look on a bike i'm still fat.)

you can dig yourself into a hole trying to go fast but not focusing on the things that aren't going to make you faster. everything on the track should have a purpose. use the brakes because you need to. turn the bike becuase you have to. turn the throttle because you have to. change gears because you have to. if you don't need to do it and its not going to produce results (faster lap times) then there is no point in doing it. i'm all for making things as easy as possible and keeping it simple. turn gas, squeeze brake, turn bike repeat.

body application is going to pay bigger dividends at this point in your learning curve than position. its going to help you stay smooth and feel more in control. at your stage (based on lap times) learning to relax and not feeding unneccessary inputs into the bike are worth more than hanging off. as you get faster you may feel the need to hang off more. you may not. relax under acceleration. keep your arms bent and grip the tank with your knees under braking.

as far as the fear of speed is concerned its usually not the speed that overwhelms its the acceleration. use a gear higher. you cut down on the amount of work (shifting) you'll have to do, you'll become smoother because there well be less chassis pitch and you can get over your fear of wringing the neck off the throttle.

[Raven R1]

Ryan,

The feedback you have recieved has been excellent and very detailed, from very knowledgable sources that aren't too damn shabby on the track.

So..this leaves me with only one piece of advice for you.

Do two days in a row!

When you leave the track after the day...i'm sure that you, like me, go home thinking about the day and where you could be faster and what you could have done differently. When you give yourself TWO days in succession it allows you to digest those thoughts and observations about your day and implement them the following day...I know that sometimes 40 minutes between sessions isn't enough to think about, digest, and implement changes in your riding. With the extra day I think you will notice some difference on the second compared to the first.

This worked for me...it may not for you...but I think if you can swing it financially...its worth your time to try it.

[Tgunn13]

Originally Posted by bittersweetryan

Tom, thanks for the advise. When is Ace going to host another track day? Two of the days I did last year were Ace sponsored days.

Probably not in the cards for this season. I'll try to push for next year, but our budget has suffered as sales have suffered. (this is the case with many cycle shops in the area...) I'll let you know if I come up on anything through Leon or anyone for some discounted track time...

[Janir]

Originally Posted by Raven R1

Ryan,

The feedback you have recieved has been excellent and very detailed, from very knowledgable sources that aren't too damn shabby on the track.

So..this leaves me with only one piece of advice for you.

Do two days in a row!

When you leave the track after the day...i'm sure that you, like me, go home thinking about the day and where you could be faster and what you could have done differently. When you give yourself TWO days in succession it allows you to digest those thoughts and observations about your day and implement them the following day...I know that sometimes 40 minutes between sessions isn't enough to think about, digest, and implement changes in your riding. With the extra day I think you will notice some difference on the second compared to the first.

This worked for me...it may not for you...but I think if you can swing it financially...its worth your time to try it.

NESBA Spet 1-2 weekend BHF. My first 2 day session per Brian's suggestions.

[bittersweetryan]

Originally Posted by Raven R1

...but I think if you can swing it financially...its worth your time to try it.

I've always wanted to do a back to back but thats the biggest problem for me, especially this year. 75% of my track budget for this year went into the wedding. I'm going to save up this winter for some back to back's next year though.

[Murf99]

Originally Posted by malik ross

different people have different goals on the track and what ever is a valid goal to them is a valid goal to me. personally, i never cared about what i looked on the track past a fleeting moment of vanity. (i'm fat...regardless of how i look on a bike i'm still fat.)

you can dig yourself into a hole trying to go fast but not focusing on the things that aren't going to make you faster. everything on the track should have a purpose. use the brakes because you need to. turn the bike becuase you have to. turn the throttle because you have to. change gears because you have to. if you don't need to do it and its not going to produce results (faster lap times) then there is no point in doing it. i'm all for making things as easy as possible and keeping it simple. turn gas, squeeze brake, turn bike repeat.

body application is going to pay bigger dividends at this point in your learning curve than position. its going to help you stay smooth and feel more in control. at your stage (based on lap times) learning to relax and not feeding unneccessary inputs into the bike are worth more than hanging off. as you get faster you may feel the need to hang off more. you may not. relax under acceleration. keep your arms bent and grip the tank with your knees under braking.

as far as the fear of speed is concerned its usually not the speed that overwhelms its the acceleration. use a gear higher. you cut down on the amount of work (shifting) you'll have to do, you'll become smoother because there well be less chassis pitch and you can get over your fear of wringing the neck off the throttle.

Jesus Christ - he did it again! I'm left with little new to say, so I'll add what I can and emphasize what I feel I should.

1 - CRing B group - I see too many people fixated on having geometrically correct form. They hang WAY off, have good geometry, but are holding themselved up on the bike. They are SO tight that they're COMPLETELY negating any communication with the bike, and being so stiff really inhibits the bike's geometries ability to do it's job. I'm willing to guess that you fall into this category - and may have been what pushed your front tire at Autobahn South in T1.
Be LOOSE. Concentrate on it. You should be SO loose on the bike that you can ride over almost anything on the track at full lean. You should be SO loose on the bike that I could ride up next to you, and shake your bike left-to-right (while you're at full lean) underneath you. Your mass needs to be seperate from the bike's.
Speaking from my own experience (both first hand and third) - In order to make the extreme monkey-like body position work, and actually be smooth with it, you have to be going bloody quick around a race track (say, mid teens or so at Blackhawk).

2 - Keep the throttle pinned and brake as hard as you can whenever possible. Here's why: If you're 'metering' the throttle (part throttle), or 'metering' the brakes - you have 2 sets of variables down the straight. Timing and Percent Application. If you pin the throttle, it is 'always' at 100% - removing the variable of throttle aplication. 1 variable is a lot easier to manage and REPEAT than two.

2a - The difference in engine power produced when going from 70% throttle to 100% throttle is very minimal (not 30% more power - it's not a linear increase - maybe 15%). Backing off the throttle is basically just a psychological thing.

2b - That pschological thing takes some real balls to overcome - so don't think I'm callin' ya a 'pansy' or something. I'm just trying to arm you with the facts, so that you will more logically be able to conquer your fears.

3 - You're not practically going to ever get away from modulating the brakes - but like Tom said - brakes will stop you MUCH more rrapidly than you think. BUT, in order to shorten your breaking distances, do the following:
A - Begin breaking at your NORMAL break marker
B - Apply the brakes harder, decelerate harder
C - Get OFF the brakes EARLY
The reasoning for doing this, and not moving your brake marker back is that if you move your brake marker BACK, at every point on the track until you turn in, you are moving FASTER than you were before. That leads to panic reactions. If you do it the way I outlined, you're moving SLOWER at every point on the track. Much less chance of panic. Eventually, you'll get sick of coasting to the corner, and will be able to confidently move your break marker back.

3a - Bikes will give you a LOT of feedback on the brakes. Even if the front wheel locks, you probably won't crash. Bikes don't just up and tuck on the brakes - there is a lot of feedback the bike and tires give you before you'd crash.

4 - I'd encourage you to define specifically what your goals for the season are, and what you're willing to do to accomplish them.
-Get the I bump?
-Get as fast as I can in as short of time as I can?
-Learn as much as I can?
-I want to lay a solid foundation for being proper fast?
-Become as smooth and consistent as I can?
HOW do you want to make the most of your time? What EXPLICITLY are your goals?

[Jokertlr]

Nothing to add here but I just wanted to say that I give you guys props for being able to handle so much time inbetween doing what you like to do. If I can't be at a lot practicing for two days I start getting jittery.