Crashing at teh track is not covered by State Farm Insurance

[VTEC_EATER]

I posted this in the general forum, but I wanted it here as well. I know its a double post, but in the Wisconsin forums, anything goes.

Well, I just got off the phone with a State Farm agent and I had asked him about riding on the track at a track day, not a timed or sanctioned race event. According to their underwriters (the guys who make the rules and write the checks), riding on the track is not covered under their insurance, nor is hill climbing, jumping, or any acts of speed weather is it planned or impromptu.

Now, I have a separate motorcycle just for track riding, however I have taken the Gixxer out on the track and I have crashed it. I have no plans of using insurance for a track accident unless the bike is totaled. Obviously, I could lie about the situation in which the accident occurred, however I would rather not commit insurance fraud.

I know some people have had their insurance companies pay to have their bikes fixed after a crash at the track. I am curious as to what companies you have, and what did you have to do to get the insurance company to pay, ie. lie about the accident, tell them it was a school, tell them it was not a timed of sanctioned race, ect...

The State Farm agent said that more than likely no insurance company will pay for an accident at the track, however, I know some companies have paid for this type of crash.

I open this to the mob. Lets hear your thoughts.

Have any of you ever made a claim for a track crash? I would only try to make a claim if the bike was totaled, but I thought I would open it up to you guys and gals too.

[jim schmidt]

No insurance covers racing. Some insurance covers accidents while attending a school. Getting coverage is a finesse activity and has a lot to do with how you present it. Generally schools are covered, racing is not.

That said, plenty of car accidents happen on the last road into Summit Point. Especially on Fridays. Not making a value judgement, just reporting a fact.

[VTEC_EATER]

Obviously a track day is not a race, however it really isnt a school.

I guess my question is, what is the difference if Im being a jackass on the street and crash my bike, or if I try to put myself in a controlled environment and crash my bike?

[KawTipping]

FWIW, I had a State Farm agent call an under writer about it. They told me as long as it wasn't a timed event, and it was a skill building event, it would be covered. Now, here is where you lose out. Being in A means you have no control riders, which now makes it an untimed but also an unregulated event. You should have gotten your crashes out in I!!!

[jigs]

Hmmmm,my guy ar Stae Farm say's no-go..no coverage..period,I'll have to call him.

[Murf99]

I've gotten a few answers from Progressive Direct, the most consistant of which was that the bike is covered as long as it was not a 'Speed Contest'. Burdon of proof lies on the insured to proove this. I asked if an event such as a trackday, which keeps no official time, would count as a 'Speed Contest' - they seemed to think not.

Note the vaugeness used in this statement.

[VTEC_EATER]

When I talked with the agent, I told them that I engage in approximately 5-10 "track days" per season. I told him that this is not a timed event, nor is it under any sanctioning racing body. It is intended as an event to increase rider skill and to use the motorcycle for its intended purpose.

I told him that I would rather put myself in a controlled environment and use the bike how it should be used vs. putting myself in an uncontrolled environment (street) and ride the bike for what its worth.

He asked if there were other riders out there, I said yes, approximately 30 others on teh track at the same time. He said: "How big is the track?," I say, "Anywhere from 2 to 4 miles long."

I also told him that there are people out there called control riders who critique and evaluate your riding, and help you with gaining more control of the machine while you are riding.

He though something like this would be covered, but after talking with his underwriters, they say no due to the reasons stated in the original post.

I think its kind of crap. As a track day rider, I am actively taking myself out of an uncontrolled environment (street) and putting myself into a safer place (track) for me to ride my motorcycle. I am wearing every bit of protective gear that is made to protect my body while riding my bike, and the people who I am riding with are all (hopefully) in the same mind set as I am with regard to safety and protection of themselves and the riders around them.

Why should track riding not be covered, but riding my bike like a jackass on the street wearing nothing but a thong and sunglasses is? Think of the medical payments that the insurance company will pay to the guy who crashes wearing his banana hamock vs. the guy wearing full leather, body armor, helmet, boots, and gloves.

To me that just doesnt seem right.

But what can ya do?

[KawTipping]

Perhaps we need to get the larger track orgs out there to start petitioning insurance companies on our behalf? Or maybe someone needs to find out what it takes to start their own insurance company?

Side note, my insurance agent tells me to tell the company that it happened on the street and say nothing about the track. Something about it falling off a trailer on the way home....

[MustGoFast]

or "I crashed while riding home from <insert track name here>"

[VTEC_EATER]

And commit insurance fraud. That would be fun to serve jail time to...

[CopperTL]

Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER

I think its kind of crap. As a track day rider, I am actively taking myself out of an uncontrolled environment (street) and putting myself into a safer place (track) for me to ride my motorcycle. I am wearing every bit of protective gear that is made to protect my body while riding my bike, and the people who I am riding with are all (hopefully) in the same mind set as I am with regard to safety and protection of themselves and the riders around them.

Why should track riding not be covered, but riding my bike like a jackass on the street wearing nothing but a thong and sunglasses is? Think of the medical payments that the insurance company will pay to the guy who crashes wearing his banana hamock vs. the guy wearing full leather, body armor, helmet, boots, and gloves.

To me that just doesnt seem right.

But what can ya do?

Well, as I see it ANY event that is held on a track is not covered. Not even for a car. Some companies even go as far as to say if your at a track event even though you may not be participating in it you may not have coverage.

I have been doing this insurance thing for 15 years now and have never come accross a policy that will cover any damage done at a track or racing event.

When you look at it, its not stupid from an insurance company standpoint not to cover track events. They are a business, and are in business to make money. You want coverage for a track vehicle, I'm sure I could find someone to write it but your DEFINITELY not going to like paying that premium! The likeliness of a total loss is to great for a company to take on a risk of that nature and not charge a high premium.

Being a track rider does not automatically mean your a better rider than someone who rides the street only. The fact that you have all the safety gear and ride in a "controlled" environment does not take any of the risk away. Your riding probably faster and harder on that track than you would on the street, right? So its higher risk with a more of a chance to total the bike, yourself or someone else.

So why do you think sportbike premium are so high Tom? From the idiots like you mention above. The statistics prove that the sportbikes are the ones who get into more accidents and cause more damage than the any other type of bike. Now because they appeal to younger more inexperienced riders and the fact that they handle, are much faster than cruiser style bikes make them a higher risk, just like say a BMW M3 with 16 year old driver.

[VTEC_EATER]

Originally Posted by CopperTL

Well, as I see it ANY event that is held on a track is not covered. Not even for a car. Some companies even go as far as to say if your at a track event even though you may not be participating in it you may not have coverage.

I have been doing this insurance thing for 15 years now and have never come accross a policy that will cover any damage done at a track or racing event.

When you look at it, its not stupid from an insurance company standpoint not to cover track events. They are a business, and are in business to make money. You want coverage for a track vehicle, I'm sure I could find someone to write it but your DEFINITELY not going to like paying that premium! The likeliness of a total loss is to great for a company to take on a risk of that nature and not charge a high premium.

Being a track rider does not automatically mean your a better rider than someone who rides the street only. The fact that you have all the safety gear and ride in a "controlled" environment does not take any of the risk away. Your riding probably faster and harder on that track than you would on the street, right? So its higher risk with a more of a chance to total the bike, yourself or someone else.

So why do you think sportbike premium are so high Tom? From the idiots like you mention above. The statistics prove that the sportbikes are the ones who get into more accidents and cause more damage than the any other type of bike. Now because they appeal to younger more inexperienced riders and the fact that they handle, are much faster than cruiser style bikes make them a higher risk, just like say a BMW M3 with 16 year old driver.

Im glad you chimed in Dave. We needed an agents point of view on the topic. So from teh sounds of it, Ill just have to keep my crashing to the street then.

Someone posed the question of: "What if you crash your bike while riding in an MSF course? Does insurance cover that crash?

[Murf99]

Keep in mind that 'acts of speed' or whatever aren't covered. So, technically, fast backroad riding isn't covered either - but I imagine the burdon of proof is on the insurance company to then proove that.

So, taken by the letter-of-the-law, I would say that riding a motorcycle while obeying all traffic laws is safer (both from a property damage and bodily injury standpoint) than trackdays.

On a side note - how many people with dedicated track bikes would pay a hundred or so dollars per year for a comprehensive policy on your bike? Mainly, to cover theft from the track/transport/your garage...

I know we have talked at some length about this, Dave, and there wasn't anything avalible. If we got enough commitments, do you think you could pitch the idea to a company?

[mattg]

State farm old me point blank as long as it non-timed and non-competitive that it would be covered.

I really only keep insurance on my bikes in case I take them on the street, and because of the loans. Aside from a total loss, i doubt i'd try to claim anything that happens at the track. and still, if the bike is absolutely trashed, there's gotta be some good parts left to part out to cover anything i have left on the loan so even there i'm betting i wouldn't claim it.

[VTEC_EATER]

Originally Posted by mattg

State farm old me point blank as long as it non-timed and non-competitive that it would be covered.

Did your agent check with the underwriters, or did they tell you that without verifying? When I asked about the track thing, the agent said he had never been asked a question like that before. I thought it was odd that no one had ever asked them about insurance at a track, motorcycle or car. I would have thought that track days were becoming more and more popular.

Hmm...