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On The TrackHad a trackday, a good or bad day at the track? Want to get started racing? Just like racing? Cmon insde and post questions, results or comments.
I recently picked up a track bike which came with a nearly new set of Pilot Races on them that I plan to run at the Iowa Speedway this weekend. I have heard varying opinions (some educated, some not) on whether or not I need to use Tire Warmers (also got a set with the bike). Some guys I ride with use the tires but no warmers, but some say you gotta run warmers or the tires will heat cycle and wear out faster...
I've only ever run street tires so I'm not really sure what's best for the race tires.
Any thoughts? Help? Opinions?
Thanks!
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I've never used tire warmers at a track day. There's just no need. The first couple of laps in every session should be to bring your body & mind "back up to temperature", which, in theory should give you plenty of time to bring the tires back up to temp as well.
I'll tell you the same thing my fellow Tony's Track Day instructors will tell you.... Don't bother. They're designed to do one thing and one thing only... give you hot tires for turn 1 in a race. There's no need to run them at a track day.
I'm not even gonna get into the whole topic of heat cycles, all I'm gonna say is don't worry bout it. period. I've talked to many a tire rep about this subject and it's not a concern.
Not to mention the fact that this past Sunday I won a race on tires that have done about 20 races and 10 or so track days (at 8-12 sessions per day) over the course of the last year & 1/2.
I've never used tire warmers at a track day. There's just no need. The first couple of laps in every session should be to bring your body & mind "back up to temperature", which, in theory should give you plenty of time to bring the tires back up to temp as well.
I'll tell you the same thing my fellow Tony's Track Day instructors will tell you.... Don't bother. They're designed to do one thing and one thing only... give you hot tires for turn 1 in a race. There's no need to run them at a track day.
I'm not even gonna get into the whole topic of heat cycles, all I'm gonna say is don't worry bout it. period. I've talked to many a tire rep about this subject and it's not a concern.
Not to mention the fact that this past Sunday I won a race on tires that have done about 20 races and 10 or so track days (at 8-12 sessions per day) over the course of the last year & 1/2.
It's strange...2 responses, both contradicting...this is why I asked the question
Thanks for the comments Oreo. The subject of tires is always a sensitive one among racers and track day goers. I completely agree with your "first 2 laps" comment. I would still like to hear some more opinions, but it seems like the warmers really aren't necessary at all for a track day.
You say you won't get into heat cycles...but what if I told you I was interested? Is there some credible info out on the webernet you could point me to? Otherwise...mind sharing your $0.02 on the subject?
__________________ NESBA #24 - I
"If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem" "It all goes back together the way it came apart, unless it came apart at redline"
He's had more experiance than me in this "racin" thing ... I was under the impression you were racing, not doing a track day... no need to on a track day, many people will be riding street tires as well... like oreo said, warm-up during the sessions will heat your tires up enough that you will be fine
~mikeym
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He's had more experiance than me in this "racin" thing ... I was under the impression you were racing, not doing a track day... no need to on a track day, many people will even be riding street tires... like oreo said, warm-up during the sessions will heat your tires up enough that you will be fine
~mikeym
Heh...should have made that clear...just a track day for me. I was running street tires before this too. Just wanted to make sure I use the tires the right way.
__________________ NESBA #24 - I
"If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem" "It all goes back together the way it came apart, unless it came apart at redline"
Are you the guy that did the ex500 conversion so you could put zx-7 rear wheel on? I have a old ex500 that I may get around to fixing up... I was going to use it as a street beater... but then again... hmm
~mikeym
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I run the power races on my street bike as well as my track bike and can tell you that they will be up to temp nicely within two laps as Oreo said....Thread jack: Congrats on the race win Oreo!
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I also run power races. I've done 20 trackdays or so. Never used tire warmers. I do ALWAYS take it easy for a lap, sometimes 2. I used to hear alot about heat cycles, honestly it's never been an issue for me. Then again, I'm probably not fast enough for it to be an issue. It used to catch my attention seeing the tire all blue on the edges, but a few laps and the tires are soft and sticky again.
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naw, that wasn't me that did a zx7 rear wheel thing... but I do have have a pre '94 EX which came w/ 16" rims that has had the 17" wheel conversion done to it. There's no need for a zx7 rear wheel... the EX doesn't need anything bigger than a 150 rear and thats more for tire options than anything else. Anything more than that is just added weight & will slow down acceleration w/o increasing traction.
CYlax, depending on who you talk to, some will say the heat cycle thing isn't as much of an issue now as it used to be. Others may tell you different, but I know more than one Tire rep that will tell you tire manufacturers are instructing racers to come off the track and NOT wrap their tires up, but to let them cool quickly (unless they're going back out w/in the next 1/2 hour, then wrap em up again). The consensus seems to be that "Cooking" your tires with tire warmers all day between sessions does NOTHING to increase the life-span of MOST tires.
Like I said above, the tires on my race bike (Pirelli Supercorsas) have gone through probably hundreds of heat cycles and I'm still winning races on them. Additionally I have the same tires on my street/track day bike and the tread is almost gone... they too have gone through hundreds of heat cycles but that has nothing to do w/ why I'll be replacing them soon.
But... talk to someone else & maybe they'lll tell you something different. Whatever the "truth" is about heat cycles, at the track-day level I really wouldn't worry about it.
I would say that BUYING tire warmers in your position is insane.
But you already have them.
Do the first two sessions without warming them, and warm them up for the next couple. Let us know if there's any difference.
And no, i would not bother warming them up if it were me. I have run track tires on the street and by the time I get to where I want the grip, it's already there and good to go. Turning off my street is sometimes interesting, though.
The only thing i DON'T like about them is how much gravel they carry into my garage. The end of my driveway is gravel, and they are so sticky that it gets embedded into the tire and falls out when they cool down. So i have to sweep my garage once a week.
Oh well!
I have 4 sets of pilot races to try out next.
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As was already said, no need at a trackday. You don't have to hammer into turn one on cold tires. I race with a lot of people who don't use them even for a race, they just take a fast warm-up lap to build some heat. It's nice to have them for racing, but at trackdays we don't even bother. It isn't worth the hassle to take them on and off just so you don't have to do a "warm-up" lap.
Oreo, your turning into a tire usage whore like myself....
I'M LIKING YOUR STYLE!
P.S. Are you or Mantis going to race at the CCS Race of Champions at Daytona during Biketoberfest? If so I will see you guys there.
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What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
Absolutely run the warmers.
Your tires will last longer, it's not a myth. I can't imagine a tire guy contradicting that.
Secondly, I don't care how fast you are or aren't it's worth it to have all the grip that's available to you all the time. Are they necessary? No, probably not. But you already have them, so use them.
I don't see the argument against it, are you guys worried about having too much grip on your first few laps?
I always run warmers no matter what. I have wrecked brand new tires in three laps because I was ready to go fast before the tires were, and they just spin and tear up.
It will do wonders for your confidence too. You don't need to ask yourself whether or not the tires are up to temp, you know they have heat in them when you roll out on track.
Pilot Races...do I need warmers?
