450 Single Kawi racebike

[Fargin_Bastige]

I've been recently watching the 450 single idea gaining momentum as a replacement for 250cc GP bikes. Here's one from Roland Sands. What do you racers think about it?
Click here

[likebikes]

I think that is a neat idea. I was wondering when someone was going to build a bike around one of those MX/SX motors. I just never thought they could actually use the frame too.

I wonder what something like that would cost. Probably at least as much as the dirt bike, $7000.

[Ivan_markII]

Wasn't there an entire race class dedicated to racing singles in the AFM? That was a heavily populated class too...and by far the loudest class.

In my opinion a single cylinder race bike makes far more sense for most racers and trackriders than most other bikes. For sure those bikes would crash a lot better than a 600cc bike. The total cost of a steel framed rotax bike is way cheaper than an I4 600.

Racing is always close in the 1 cylinder class. Might be a good thing or might be a bad thing.

[ZQ8Dude]

Ive seen it done with YZ450Fs

Id love to have one someday.

[whitman]

looks awesome sounds good to and has to be fun to ride.......

[Czolgosz]

There's an article in the November 07 Motor Cycle mag. I'm digging these things. I really like the cost. Kinda like racing a kart.

If this thing starts up somewhere I'm *extremely* tempted to jump in.

450 Super Single Project

[OreoGaborio]

I'm actually considering getting one of those after they come out & the price comes down a little.

There's a LOT of guys that race supermotards at Loudon NH but they're not my style unless you're actually racing supermoto w/ dirt & jumps... but put clip-ons on there & adapt it to more of a roadracing bike & I'd hit it.

A buddy of mine had a chance to ride Roland's personal bike but the day got canceled when a testrider for this project got hurt. He was bummed to say the least.

[kz2zx]

Swingarm angle. Plus 4-stroke MX engines don't last real long at full load - which MX doesn't do to them, but even a tight road course will.

So you'll get a unruly bike to ride which will be hell to dial in, and may grenade on you twice in a season, is my take.

If it works out, more power to you. I'm too fat to ride one.

Plus I like wheelieing out of corners.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by kz2zx

Swingarm angle. Plus 4-stroke MX engines don't last real long at full load - which MX doesn't do to them, but even a tight road course will.

So you'll get a unruly bike to ride which will be hell to dial in, and may grenade on you twice in a season, is my take.

If it works out, more power to you. I'm too fat to ride one.

Plus I like wheelieing out of corners.

Take it from someone who races SIDE BY SIDE on a tight road course (Loudon NH) FULL of motards still in dirtbike trim though, that what you just posted is almost 100% misinformation.

The BUILT MX engines don't last long. In stock form they last PLENTY long if taken care of properly (basic oil, filter & airfilter changes and valve checks). And the geometry is just fine with basic tweaks. (most notably a different triple clamp).

There are guys at my track that are so fugging fast on these things that it'll blow your mind. I watched Jeff Wood battle Doug Henry before his accident on supermotos, backing it in while rubbing elbows. The kind of shit that makes your jaw drop. Since then, a friend of mine bought Jeff's bike and raced it last year. Regular maintinance is all it needs.

These road-race versions will do just fine and I'm looking forward to seeing them in action.

[Murf99]

The 450 MX engines only hold 1 to 1.5 liters of oil. Not a lot of thermal capacitance there. They'll be hand grenades on big tracks like Road America and Atlanta.

I agree with kz2zx. I find it VERY unlikely that the geometry at both the front AND the back works out to proper road race form. I've seen much discussion about front-end geometry, but nobodies made mention of swingarm angle and shock length.

Usually trouble occurs when things are adapted to roles for which they were not designed.

[OreoGaborio]

*sigh*

Guys... look at the people who are working on this project.... DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN THEM???

I know I don't.



I think the thing that surprises me most is that I'm actually defending this bike. I shouldn't have to.... nor do I really want to. So whatever.

[OreoGaborio]

Just sent this thread to my buddy.... here's what he said:

tell them I spoke with Roland over dinner last week and we talked about this bike a bit. The geometrey specs are almost the exact same as a 250gp bike (which roland won an AMA championship on)

those guys are just parrotting what everyone else had said

the bikes are kickass and very, very many industry folks are excited about them.

[TegRacer243]

To people who say the engines are gonna grenade what do you think shifter karts use for engines?

[Murf99]

Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN THEM???

Well, Kevin Schwantz shares my concern (and yes, he shares it - I was led to my conclusion before reading his) about the oil capacity and reliability. I don't know more than Roland Sands, but I'd wager that Kevin does.

Originally Posted by TegRacer243

To people who say the engines are gonna grenade what do you think shifter karts use for engines?

2-strokes. Different animal. Even so, the 2-strokes go through a top end every weekend or so on big tracks (a close friend used to race 125cc).

Look - I really hope the best for the project. It's a really neat idea, and there is definately a void below 600s that exists because of a lack of small displacement supersports bikes in the states. I really hope it works out.

I just won't be spending any of the R&D money as a first-year customer.

Like I said - from my engineering experience... things that are adapted to a different roll than designed (especially something as specialized as an MX bike) seldom works out.

[kz2zx]

Oreo,

I'm an engineer, too. My opinion was formed independently of anyone else's.

I hope it works out for those who try this class.