Intimidated and frustrated (sorta lengthy)

[SD40T-2]

I've posted so much on this topic to the forum board of my local club that I think I'm wearing out my welcome so I'll try here.

First off a little background. Been riding since last September. Bought a 02' Honda CBR600F4i pretty close to stock. It's been rebuilt as it was a theft recovery but still a solid machine. Did my first track day on my F4i back on July 4th and had a blast. I'm sure it was painful for some to watch and others to participate along with me but had fun none the less.

This is where things start to go downhill for me. After my July 4th track day I was off my bike for a few days as I was very busy with work and didn't have time to re-install and revert those items generally taken off for track riding. When I did get back on about three days later, I felt like totally uneasy and unstable on the road. My riding style and level on the street was back to that of when I had just earned my bike endorsement and passed the MSF BRC. I couldn't understand why I was back to rigid arms, "butt pilot" body position and weird foot position. The knee-jerk reaction was to blame it on sore and sensitive muscles which didn't help. But at this point I was not noticing or, shall we say, considering this to be any kind of lingering effect much beyond the soreness of my muscles. The fact occurred to me that if I wanted to get serious I was going to need a track bike and didn't want to try converting my F4i into a race bike as I didn't even know how to begin. So I purchased a 03' R6 from a guy in the club for 5k. I'm beginning to regret this purchase.

Then on the 15th of this month, I participated in an advanced rider training course along in conjunction with a new racer certification. This course was held on a smaller "Go-kart" track where speeds are generally lower and turns are shaper. So much for grace and beauty.... Coupled with fact that I was trying to learn how to ride on a track designed for karts and that I was trying to learn a new bike, I had a very frustrating day. I was even pulled aside and informed that I wouldn't be able to qualify for a race license that day but later in the day after seeing some improvement, I was told I would be able to qualify for a "restricted" license if I successfully completed a mock race without incident. One of the biggest reasons I feel I did so poorly is they were teaching new skills and at the same time, didn't enforce the theory that some MSF BRC rules and skills become irrelevant when one hits the track. So now I'm fighting with myself to analyze which type of maneuvers and actions are not cool for the track but ok on the road. If you haven't guessed, I was trying to analyze my mind's programing while trying to maintain my composure and operation of my bike.

After this course, I was furious. Mostly with myself. I parked my race bike in my garage and closed the door trying to forget about it and two wheeled contraptions all together. That only lasted a couple of days and by this point I was steaming. I posted to my club's website, lamenting my delima as to wether I should even continue trying to persue this sport knowing my lack of confidence and, in my eyes, worsening performance. My post entailed the basic query of wether to do the scheduled track day coming up the next weekend; the next level of rider training to be held in conjunction with the track day previously mentioned on the main track; just go out and watch or forget the whole thing and do something else that day. The fact that I had just laid down $5k on a bike I could only use at the track and was now having serious second thoughts on was weighing heavily on my mind. Through much encouragement by those in the club, talking and thought, I decided on doing the higher level of rider training to keep an open mind.

Well the day of my next rider training came (last sunday) and I faired much better. A bit rough at first, still trying to get used to my bike; mostly the fact that it had GP shifting. It was noted to me that I was like a "fish with bicycle" for the first few times. I finally got the shifting down and was informed I had dropped my lap times from 2:22's to 2:12's from beginning of the day to the end. This impressed me until I learned that more seasoned riders were doing 1:40's....Ouch.

Well fast forward to today. I decided to leave the bike in the garage and volunteer at the track to help at the our monthly club race. Bad idea. I watched as riders, some without much more experience than me, turned times that one could only dream of (or in my case envy). The thoughts of selling my track bike and ending my involvement in track related activities are back, practically screaming in my head. It's almost like I want to do it but can't seem to get my brain in the right mode so it learns from mistakes. As seems to be the more common thing; I tend to make mistakes, then become uneasy on the track and, well you guessed it, worsen further, make more mistakes and on and on........

I'm sure that there is someone among the throngs on this board that have been in the same situation I'm in. I really don't want to give racing and track activities up, but my dilemmas and failing confidence are beginning to affect my work, other leisure activities and family life. I say this is when it has gone too far.

The sheer intimidation of watching people run circles around what I could only hope to do and my poor skill and confidence with it's downward trend is making me desperate.

Can someone please talk some sense to me and perhaps give me some ideas or relate experiences that might give me something to try. I can't keep this up,

Frustrated,

D. Speirs
WVC, UT

[kevin_stevens]

Sign up for ERCs, skill days, and local group rides (if not too intense) as available.

As far as track days are concerned, you have to pick your battles, as it were. You can have a huge difference in lap times just by not going WFO from turn to turn - in fact, at the high end, who gets WFO earliest out of the turns almost always determines who wins. So having people run 30 seconds faster than you means absolutely nothing other than that they are working on stringing multiple turns together (or just trying to run a race pace without working on anything). At your level (my level, almost anyone posting here's level) if you are just trying to turn fast times without working on specifics, you're pretty much just wasting time and scaring yourself occasionally.

When I go to track day, I'll have one or two things to work on (body position, braking point, throttle roll-on, etc.). I'll focus on getting that right for one turn, or maybe a two-turn combination, then more or less cruise to the next turn section while thinking about what I just did and what I'm going to do next. Performance improvement isn't measured by lap times - it's measured by rpm increase at corner entrance/midturn/exit (depending on what I'm working on).

If you want to win races, that's a whole different path, and one it doesn't sound like you're primarily interested in. For learning to ride the bike to its/your limits, you need to pull in and ride your own ride rather than getting bent out of shape about what others are doing. There will always be people faster than you - get over it.

KeS

[silent_R1]

I really really wish you lived closer to me. I'm not the greatest rider in the world, but I have raced, and am focusing more on just track days. I work with novices at our local track (informally of course).

Having never watched you ride, I think you are over analyzing, and you were set up for failure trying to learn a new bike on a kart track. I agree with keeping the track bike though. You have done how many track days now? I'm sorry, but that part wasn't clear.

What was clear was your sense of frustration. The best advice I can give you long distance is to go out and have fun. You are making yourself do poorly (in your eyes) because you are not having fun.

When you have a good mindset, you are relaxed which translates to the bike. On the other hand, when you are screaming your insecurities into your brain, you are going to be tense, and this too will translate into your bike. YOU MUST relax.

Sometimes when I would go, I would be so tense, I couldn't hardly shift. I started listening to music (I don't recommend this until you get some serious days under your belt), and I sing inside my helmet. Alot of people use earplugs as well. When you can't ear everything else going on around you, it will help your times.

edit: I agree with KeS as well. Sign up for as many skill building days as possible. Take as many track schools as you can afford, it will be money well spent.

[kevin_stevens]

Originally Posted by silent_R1

When you have a good mindset, you are relaxed which translates to the bike. On the other hand, when you are screaming your insecurities into your brain, you are going to be tense, and this too will translate into your bike. YOU MUST relax.

Sometimes when I would go, I would be so tense, I couldn't hardly shift. I started listening to music (I don't recommend this until you get some serious days under your belt), and I sing inside my helmet. Alot of people use earplugs as well. When you can't ear everything else going on around you, it will help your times.

That's actually my rule of thumb on when I'm leaving my comfort zone - when I stop having a tune run through my head. Truthfully, that's one of my measurements of improvements - I'll try something new that's a "reach", and then repeat it until I'm comfortable enough that the music in my head comes back.

Of course, when the tune changes to "Don't Fear The Reaper", that's not a good sign either.

KeS

[coronadozx]

don't give up man, if racing were easy, it wouldn't be worth it.

kevin is right, learn to ride your own ride and don't worry so much about other riders, you'll get there man.

[velocity bmg]

Originally Posted by kevin_stevens

That's actually my rule of thumb on when I'm leaving my comfort zone - when I stop having a tune run through my head. Truthfully, that's one of my measurements of improvements - I'll try something new that's a "reach", and then repeat it until I'm comfortable enough that the music in my head comes back.

Of course, when the tune changes to "Don't Fear The Reaper", that's not a good sign either.

KeS

[SD40T-2]

Ok, Seem my poor grammar and explanations confused everyone. Let me try it again, with a bit more polished structure.

Just for refrence, the track in question is the Miller Motorsports Park See the website as I'll reference things by specifics from here on.

I have essentially three track days under my belt. Two on the main track and one on the Kart track. Again, my kart track experience was none to good....

I'm not focusing solely on my lap times as a measure of my performance. Obviously, my best times are when I feel relaxed. Unfortunatly, control riders, instructors and the what not are rather quick to pull me off the track and instruct (or correct) and I keep getting fed more and more information never really learning what works and what doesn't. Relaxation doesn't really get a good chance to ever establish. Again it's not that I'm concerned with what others think. I'm more concerned with what they think and then want me to change because I can't ride to save my life......

I don't feel insecure about my personal riding. My insecurities come about when it's repeted, almost at infinitum, what I'm doing wrong and then being paranoid about getting another "talking to". This may be a rather cheesy way of thinking about it but a lot of it stems from the constant criticism I received when I was younger and in school. It's a long story.

But let me get back to my core thoughts....

It's been mentioned that I "ride my own ride." I don't even know what my own ride is. I have such a hard time establishing a pattern because I'm afraid to %!@* UP! No not falling or crashing, I can make is around just fine without doing that. Not keeping my lines, looking through my turns, leaning too much or not enough. Why? It's a big physiological mess in my head. I feel I need a shrink to figure it out.

The music in the head thing is some thing I have done and it works - to a degree. Sometimes the "music" will play and I'm scared silly.

But to tie all of my loose ends together....

Yes, I'd love to race but I'm not going to place myself in a situation where my riding is so dismal and my times would be so bad that i'd just end up humiliated. I mean who want's to race if they know they will be the perpetual "tail dragger" and always coming in last.

I don't know what goals to shoot since I don't know what they are. The only thing I can see that gives me feedback is my lap times (and perhaps the occasional track photo).

Seeing so many others progress (again, with relatively the same track time and experience) tends to place a substantial amount of intimidation on me.

[kevin_stevens]

Then it's time for a one-on-one school or instruction, with a STRONG PREFERENCE towards chase bike video footage. Nothing really compares with seeing what you look like from the third person perspective.

KeS

[velocity bmg]

[quote=SD40T-2]Ok, Seem my poor grammar and explanations confused everyone. Let me try it again, with a bit more polished structure.

Just for refrence, the track in question is the Miller Motorsports Park See the website as I'll reference things by specifics from here on.

I have essentially three track days under my belt. Two on the main track and one on the Kart track. Again, my kart track experience was none to good....

They are probably trying to teach you patience by running on what amounts to the Putt Putt of race tracks.

But, there are other ways to learn patience.

A Go-Kart track...I wouldn't pay for that. I'd just sneak into one when it's closed.

I'm not focusing solely on my lap times as a measure of my performance. Obviously, my best times are when I feel relaxed. Unfortunatly, control riders, instructors and the what not are rather quick to pull me off the track and instruct (or correct) and I keep getting fed more and more information never really learning what works and what doesn't.

If you are hearing different things from different instructors on the same subject, get them together and ask them who is right.

There are always different answers for different people who all have the same problem. Find what works best for you.

It's been mentioned that I "ride my own ride." I don't even know what my own ride is. I have such a hard time establishing a pattern because I'm afraid to %!@* UP! No not falling or crashing, I can make is around just fine without doing that. Not keeping my lines, looking through my turns, leaning too much or not enough. Why? It's a big physiological mess in my head. I feel I need a shrink to figure it out.

If you feel ridiculed...leave...find another school or track.

I've been kicked out of the best joints in the world...musically.
But, usually, because they couldn't stand the fact that I was right.

The music in the head thing is some thing I have done and it works - to a degree. Sometimes the "music" will play and I'm scared silly.

But to tie all of my loose ends together....

Yes, I'd love to race but I'm not going to place myself in a situation where my riding is so dismal and my times would be so bad that i'd just end up humiliated. I mean who want's to race if they know they will be the perpetual "tail dragger" and always coming in last.

I don't know what goals to shoot since I don't know what they are. The only thing I can see that gives me feedback is my lap times (and perhaps the occasional track photo).

Seeing so many others progress (again, with relatively the same track time and experience) tends to place a substantial amount of intimidation on me.

Racing is for fun, unless you plan on making a living at it.

Sounds to me, and this is from a guy with less track gay, I mean day, yes, Track Day, experience than you, but probably alot more riding experience.

Pick a better or different school.

Before you attend, or the first time get some idea about how organized the people are and how the instructors think.

(Personally, if I am doing something wrong, I just need be told and shown the correct way. )

Don't worry about racing...just get some good riding time under your belt.

Don't worry about what other people think.

Little secret...

People spend about 20% of their lives actually and truly thinking.

And half of that 20% is about themselves.

So fuck 'em. You are not gonna change the world.

Good luck and don't take things so personally. (^_^)

[silent_R1]

with the ride your ride quote, the reference is to worry only about yourself and not what others are doing. As for the CR's, perhaps, getting to one first thing in the morning and tell them you want to work on lines, or braking, or clipping the apex, or body position will help. You said they are only offering critisism, but as a CR, unless I have someone come to me specifically and ask me for help, I'm not going to pick someone out of the crowd. So, to use that isn't really fair (IMO). They have to keep the riders (overall) safe, so you need to go to them to get their feedback. They are there to help you, but perhaps you are not utilizing the help that is available, but not offered.

I understand what you are saying, but realistically using lap times as a mark of progress is really not the best way. Your times could drop easily, but that doesn't mean you are riding well. It could just mean you have big balls and do not have any fear. Not a good combination.

But, this is my 0.02. I'll offer my perspective if you want it, and do what I can to help you. But, the best advice I can give you is to get more seat and snag a rider at the beginning.

[velocity bmg]

Originally Posted by silent_R1

with the ride your ride quote, the reference is to worry only about yourself and not what others are doing. As for the CR's, perhaps, getting to one first thing in the morning and tell them you want to work on lines, or braking, or clipping the apex, or body position will help. You said they are only offering critisism, but as a CR, unless I have someone come to me specifically and ask me for help, I'm not going to pick someone out of the crowd. So, to use that isn't really fair (IMO). They have to keep the riders (overall) safe, so you need to go to them to get their feedback. They are there to help you, but perhaps you are not utilizing the help that is available, but not offered.

I understand what you are saying, but realistically using lap times as a mark of progress is really not the best way. Your times could drop easily, but that doesn't mean you are riding well. It could just mean you have big balls and do not have any fear. Not a good combination.

But, this is my 0.02. I'll offer my perspective if you want it, and do what I can to help you. But, the best advice I can give you is to get more seat and snag a rider at the beginning.

+1...being a rider/instructor this guy would know.

I'm going to the Ride smart school and having a camera and lap timer as well.

I'm going to try and get as much feedback as possible.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Even in actual racing it's all about 'racing your own race', the other racers on the track are merely obstacles you must learn to overcome as you advance. As far as not wanting to be last, well that's both good and bad at the same time in my opinion. Good is the fact that you have a desire to excell, bad in the fact that your apparently worried about what others think about you. I use to be fast in the late 90's, then I had to slow down for financial reasons and have stayed there for quite some time. Talk about frustrating, I know what it's like to lead a race from the start and end up not winning because I forgot to top off the gas tank and ran out of fuel with a lap and 1/2 to go (in fact the best I have ever finished was 2nd quite a few times, but I've NEVER won a race in my life!). Even more frustrating is being in the situation that I've been in for several years now, running at the back of every race after spending my earlier racing career running in the front group. It's also very frustrating to know that due to the average turn-over rate in motorcycle road racing (apx 3-1/2 seasons or so) there are very few people still racing today that would remember when I was fast, so I get some people who say I never was fast and that I'm full of it because any racer that COULD go fast - WOULD go fast. What they have trouble understanding is that I've had to make a tough choice to continue racing and just running at the back, in my opinion 'staying involved' is far more important and valuable to me then quiting till I'm financially back in a postion to go fast again. In my opinion those people are in it more for what others think of them than the true love of the sport.

The reason I told you my situation is to let you know that it's OK to go at your own pace, some people are fast from the get go, others take a little time to 'get-it' - ironically some of those slower to develop their skills become some of the fastest racers. Don't be frustrated with not being fast immediately, there's absolutely nothing embarressing about that. I've seen more guys that are what I call 'guts fast' be fast at the start, then reach a point where just having the 'guts' to go fast doesn't cut it anymore, then the guys who developed their technique from the start end up getting faster than them. Quit worrying about what others think about you, take the time you need to develop the skills you need in the environment you believe is best. I personally highly suggest taking a school or get training specifically targetted at racing if that's what you truely want to do. INVESTING hundred's of dollars in yourself to spend a day or two at a racetrack with a personal race instructor will probably be some of the best money you could ever spend, most of the time this is done at a Track Day. If your looking for a racer/instructor who would spend a day with you exclusively at Miller, there's a racer here on SBN who MAY be able to do just that (just ask and I will ask him). Just realize ahead of time that this is NOT cheap, the student generally pays the instructors expenses to attend the Track Day and let them earn some money as well. If the instructors total cost including the Track fee was anywhere from $300 - $700 for a full day you probably just spent the best money you will ever spend. In my opinion, one on one instruction with a good instructor is the fastest way to develop your skills and will probably result in the largest advancements in your ability in the shortest amount of time.