If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
On The TrackHad a trackday, a good or bad day at the track? Want to get started racing? Just like racing? Cmon insde and post questions, results or comments.
FIM caved into Ducati and is allowing them to race their 1098 next year.
A bunch of bunk if you ask me.... Ducati starts crying after 1 year 'cause they aren't winning every race and say they need a bigger bike to be competitive. PAALLEEASE!!
Funny, I don't remember any of the BIg 4 manufacturers whining when they were still racing 750s against the 1000cc 2 cylnders back in the late 90's-early2000s
__________________
"She always brings me what I need, without I beg and sweat and bleed......Queensryche/Operation Mindcrime/Spreading the Disease 2001 Honda CBR600 F4i
Miquel Duhamel replica
FIM caved into Ducati and is allowing them to race their 1098 next year.
A bunch of bunk if you ask me.... Ducati starts crying after 1 year 'cause they aren't winning every race and say they need a bigger bike to be competitive. PAALLEEASE!!
Funny, I don't remember any of the BIg 4 manufacturers whining when they were still racing 750s against the 1000cc 2 cylnders back in the late 90's-early2000s
Ok- here's the deal.
the superbike class is for racing production street bikes. PRODUCTION bikes.
In ANY racing class, it is very common to have bikes with a lesser number of cylinders to be allowed more displacement. It just has to do with the amount of power that is possible from the types of engines.
If Ducati was currently only allowed to enter it's 999 engine under the same rules as the I-4 bikes, it would NEVER win.
They are CURRENTLY allowed extensive modification to their engine. It is basically a prototype and has almost NO relation to the engine that they sell on the street. It is OBSCENELY expensive to make these engines (that have to be rebuilt after every race), especially in relation to what the other manufacturers spend... which is almost nothing.
Ducati's argument is that because this class is for PRODUCTION bikes, their current tactics are stupid and wasteful.
They want a little extra displacement than the I-4, but want to get rid of the special modifications they are currently allowed.
Honestly, i do not see the big fuss. I think this is a GREAT idea. It might actually get more teams into racing Ducati's in this class. Until now, only factory bikes have raced because it's too expensive for private teams to run a Duc.
__________________
Moderator of Rider's Gear and Help me Fix it.
PM me if you have questions, concerns, or beer you need to give away.
The breaking news section is for SBN staff only. Just an FYI
Gotcha.
I was gonnapost in racers corner or breaking news, just picked the wrong one, sorry.
__________________
"She always brings me what I need, without I beg and sweat and bleed......Queensryche/Operation Mindcrime/Spreading the Disease 2001 Honda CBR600 F4i
Miquel Duhamel replica
the superbike class is for racing production street bikes. PRODUCTION bikes.
In ANY racing class, it is very common to have bikes with a lesser number of cylinders to be allowed more displacement. It just has to do with the amount of power that is possible from the types of engines.
If Ducati was currently only allowed to enter it's 999 engine under the same rules as the I-4 bikes, it would NEVER win.
They are CURRENTLY allowed extensive modification to their engine. It is basically a prototype and has almost NO relation to the engine that they sell on the street. It is OBSCENELY expensive to make these engines (that have to be rebuilt after every race), especially in relation to what the other manufacturers spend... which is almost nothing.
Ducati's argument is that because this class is for PRODUCTION bikes, their current tactics are stupid and wasteful.
They want a little extra displacement than the I-4, but want to get rid of the special modifications they are currently allowed.
Honestly, i do not see the big fuss. I think this is a GREAT idea. It might actually get more teams into racing Ducati's in this class. Until now, only factory bikes have raced because it's too expensive for private teams to run a Duc.
Ducati sells/sold the 999R as a production bike which is what the different Superbike series in the world race, do they not?
Maybe I'm wrong there Kev?
How different is the SBK race bike engine from the production 999R?
Just asking
__________________
"She always brings me what I need, without I beg and sweat and bleed......Queensryche/Operation Mindcrime/Spreading the Disease 2001 Honda CBR600 F4i
Miquel Duhamel replica
Ducati sells/sold the 999R as a production bike which is what the different Superbike series in the world race, do they not?
Maybe I'm wrong there Kev?
How different is the SBK race bike engine from the production 999R?
Just asking
They are allowed to use different throttle bodies, crankshafts, crank cases, among many other little things.
The I-4 engines are allowed NO such modifications.
The 999R street engine makes a tad under 150hp. The 999 SBK engine makes a tad under 200 horsepower.
The only significant change that the I-4 engines are allowed is using a different exhaust system and valve springs. V-2's are also allowed to do this.
The funny thing is that you are required to have the same number of exhaust silencers on the bike as the homolagated model.... so the new GSXR 1000 SBK bike will have to have a dual exhaust. That sucks.
__________________
Moderator of Rider's Gear and Help me Fix it.
PM me if you have questions, concerns, or beer you need to give away.
I see no problem with this. Given equal levels of tune and equal displacement, an I-4 will create more power than a twin. Ducati has said that it will submit to a weight penalty to run the bigger engine, if necessary.
The 1098 will be much closer to stock than the 999 was. The current 999 gets to run huge throttle bodies and a much lighter crank in WSBK (not allowed in AMA).
Hell, the Triumph Daytona 675 is Supersport legal in many series. So is the Ducati 748/749, sometimes even allowed up to 850cc.
Changes to the Technical Rules for 2008 - Twin cylinders to 1200cc
After consultation with all the parties involved and upon the proposal submitted by the Superbike Commission, the FIM has decided the following amendment and additions to the Superbike World Championship technical rules for 2008.
Displacement capacities.
o 2 cylinders over 850cc up to 1200cc
o 3 cylinders over 750cc up to 1000cc
o 4 cylinders over 750cc up to 1000cc
· Minimum weights.
o 2 cylinders over 850cc up to 1200cc: 168kg
o 4 cylinders over 750cc up to 1000cc: 162kg
Minimum weight of 2 cylinders over 850cc up to 1200cc will be updated, if needed, during the Championship in steps of ±3kg to 171kg as a maximum and 162kg as a minimum.
· Air-restrictors.
Only 2 cylinders over 850cc up to 1200cc will be fitted with air-restrictors. Initial size will be equivalent to a Ø50mm circular area. Air-restrictors size will be updated, if needed, during the Championship in steps of ±2mm of diameter in a range from equivalent to a Ø46mm circular area to no air-restrictor at all.
· Balance of different motorcycle concepts.
Weight limit and then air-restrictors size of 2 cylinders over 850cc up to 1200cc machines will be updated, if needed, during the Championship, by a system analysing the race points obtained.
· Tuning level.
All machines will have the same level of tuning presently applied to 4 cylinders over 750cc up to 1000cc, with the exception of connecting rods that must be standard for 2 cylinders over 850cc up to 1200cc.
· Homologation numbers.
For 2008 and 2009 all manufacturers, irrespective of their total production numbers, will have to produce a minimum of 1000 bikes in order to get an homologation.
For 2010 onwards the minimum production number will be increased to 3000 bikes.
The complete set of the new 2008 Superbike technical rules will be issued by FIM during next week.
__________________ SBN Moderator
PM me with any questions or concerns
Sometimes you're the windshield,
Sometimes you're the bug..
On April 20th, 2006, I was the bug..
Check out my story and wear your gear.. STORY HERE!
I see no problem with this. Given equal levels of tune and equal displacement, an I-4 will create more power than a twin. Ducati has said that it will submit to a weight penalty to run the bigger engine, if necessary.
The 1098 will be much closer to stock than the 999 was. The current 999 gets to run huge throttle bodies and a much lighter crank in WSBK (not allowed in AMA).
Hell, the Triumph Daytona 675 is Supersport legal in many series. So is the Ducati 748/749, sometimes even allowed up to 850cc.
EXACTLY
Lesser cylinder bikes need more displacement to be competitive.
Ducati has submitted to having BOTH weight restrictions and air inlet tube diameter restrictions.
Which basically boils down to this-
If ducati ends up pwning everyone on the race track, they will raise the minimum weight and lower the maximum diameter the air inlet tubes can be, thus limiting the power AND weight of the bike.
It really just makes things more competitive and HOPEFULLY will allow more teams to run Duc's.
__________________
Moderator of Rider's Gear and Help me Fix it.
PM me if you have questions, concerns, or beer you need to give away.
The only thing I don't understand in this situation is why Ducati built an 1100cc twin for production this year? If they needed 1200cc to be competitive that's what they should have built to begin with.
So why doesn't WSB allow them to run that bike as a compromise and see it's level of competitiveness? It's supposed to be comparable in street trim to the 1000cc 4 cylinders. Obviously too late for this anyway.
If you look at the history of WSB Ducati has dominated. Mostly due to rules advantages.
Be prepared to see a Japanese 1200cc twin in the near future but Ducati already has a head start. They probably designed the 1098 engine to be able to be taken up to 1200cc.
WSB has had by far the best racing this year with all bikes except a Kawasaki winning races. I hope this rule change doesn't send it back to the Ducati show.
Ducati to race 1098 in '08
2001 Honda CBR600 F4i
