New Track Bike, need advice on Mods

[kl3640]

I'm new to sportbikes.net, so please forgive me if this is not the place for this post, and let me know where it should be.

I recently picked up a used 2006 GSR-R750. I was in the market for a late model CBR600RR, but I happened across the Gixxer (actually, I came across two, but lost the first one, so when this one came up I pounced on it) for $4,500 with 2,900+ miles. I did some research and discovered that because only engine internals differ between the GSX-R600 and GSX-R750 that the handling is almost identical, save the added static weight and rotational mass, which they say has a noticeable effect to experts, but not so much to the amateur racer.

Anyway, because I got the bike so cheap (the guy had dropped it at low speed and it needed a new rear cowl and front fender, but he was frustrated with riding and just wanted to get rid of it, so I got a deal) I'm willing to invest some money in to making it in to a "proper track bike," whatever that means.

Some of the things that I'm going to do are:

1) Replace the broken cowl and fender, but otherwise keep the body-work the same because for right now there is no reason to spend the money on SharkSkinz or the like. I'll just remove the mirrors, blinkers, tape up the lights, etc..., maybe switch to a race windscreen like a double-bubble

2) Safety-wire everything that requires safety-wiring (grips, bolts, etc...)

3) Switch to GP shift

4) Test the adjustable pegs to see if the rear-position works for me, but otherwise I'll switch to fixed setbacks

5) Remove rear-pegs, rear seat (which I'll just get rid of all together by replacing the busted rear cowl with a sharkskins product or something

6) Remove lighting fuses, bulbs, etc..., and any other unecessary electrical components

7) D-Ring the fairings in lieu of bolts

8) Remove side-stand

9) Possibly replace stock rotors with Braking floating wave rotors

10) Depending on how I like the power, I might put in the Yoshimura R Cam - that's the one that doesn't require recutting the valve seats and trimming the head, etc...

11) It has the stock low-mount, stubby exhaust, which I love. I'll keep that style, but replace it, the catalytic converter, and the header with a full-system race exhaust, probably a Yosh, to save weight primarily

12) Go with soft-compound track tires (probably Pilot Race, because I've run those before and liked them, or possibly Super Corsa's)

13) If I can find them at a discount, get some really lightweight Marchesini wheels

14) Steering damper/stabilizer (probably a GPR fully adjustable rotary kind, not the piston type)

I've done quite a few track days and plan to do even more next year as my Enduro schedule will probably lighten-up, and since I got the bike fairly cheap I don't mind investing some money in to it. For me, riding the bike on the track is half the fun - building the track bike is the other half.

My question is, what other mods would people recommend doing to make it a better track bike? Is there any sort of authoritative source out there, such as a book or other reference of what are the must do's, nice to have's, and money-to-burn mods that one might do to make a stock sport-bike in to a true track-beast?

As I mentioned, I've done enough track days at this point to know that I'm hooked and will do many more, plus building the bike is fun for me, so I don't mind spending a few bucks to work the bike.

Thanks.

[kl3640]

Some things that I forgot to post:

At the track, I've seen some bikes that have had their batteries and starters removed, presumably as a weight-saving measure.

Where I can see the benefit of losing 7-10 pounds of battery and starter, I'm wondering:

1) Is rigging up the electrical system without the battery easy, in such a way that voltage is regulated and no expensive electrical components get fried? (Like on some dirt-bikes, where the battery doubles as a voltage-regulator for some items).

2) How does one start such bikes - with a wheel spinner? Where do you get one, how much do they cost, what do you do when you're delayed at the starting line, etc...

3) Is the weight-savings worth the hassel if you're not racing professionally?

Also, many of you probably read my post and thought, "this guy is clueless if he doesn't realize that suspension is probably the #1 bang-for-the-buck performance investment, along with proper training!"

I purposely omitted those from my list because:
1) I've spent a lot of money on training, including race schools and 1x1 instructor time
2) I'm a bit of a suspension and bike geometry expert from all of my experience having to do it myself and for others, so I can setup my bike for my own needs, and after riding it for a while I'll consider upgrading the actual suspension components, but not before I've ruled out the viability of using the stock components to my satisfaction.

Regarding the components that I did list in the first post that I'd like to upgrade/replace, those are things that I've used extensively in the past and that I know what I want - for example, I know the stock tires on that bike and even if they weren't due for a change, I'd still change them out for more of a pure track tire because I've gone through the experience of learning to slip-slide and recover at slower speeds on street tires, etc...

[whitman]

Most people spend alot of time and money on a bike fixing up the motor and the exhaust system to gain minimal speed at the track because the bike now cant handle the power change.
I would strongly recomend that you get the suspension done.
start by having the bike measured- computracked. to see if it is twisted even a low speed slide can bend or tweak the forks.
Next get the front and rear set up for your weight. this will make a huge difference in time at the track. and I have seen a lot of "experts "
struggle at the track chasing the set up on a bike because they go crazy
making the wrong adjustments.
Spend your money on the suspension and you will go faster.
whit
you also might want to submit some questions to jim the tuner on this he is an expert on suspension.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

I don't care how many track days anyone has done, racing is different. My suggestion to you is to go race and go from there. Your worrying/focusing on alot of stuff that won't mean anything until your within 10% of the track record - with the exception of suspension and good tires. I would seriously just do what is needed to get out on the track and let reality sink in, if your that fast right out of the box you didn't loose anything by doing 1 event without an AMA level bike. This is what burns my ass about people doing too many track days before they actually go racing, too many lose focus on what is actually important - ABILITY, EXPERIENCE, AND BASIC SET-UP. I understand you have all this experience you spoke of, but you have yet to race 1 roadrace yet. I think your probably going to get a little bit of a wake up call once you actually do race, but then again maybe you will be that extremely rare exception to the rule that goes out and places top 5 in your 1st race, who knows?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but this whole constantly reoccuring situation is why I hate people getting stuck in the rut of doing too many track days before going racing - people with riding experience that are intending to race just need to go race after several track days at most!

[OreoGaborio]

bah... u can never do too many trackdays ... but I do agree about people not concentrating on the basics & getting too wrapped up in modifying thier bikes...

For a trackday bike, just strip what's not needed & throw good tires on there... bam, done.

For a race bike being ridden by a rookie, it's pretty much the same thing... just make it race legal according to the rules, throw some race tires on there, maybe a steering damper & ride it. Suspension & tires are the biggest things you should be concerned with as far as "mods" go.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

bah... u can never do too many trackdays ... but I do agree about people not concentrating on the basics & getting too wrapped up in modifying thier bikes...

The reason I feel this way is because racing is a different mindset, it's go-go-go-go-go!!!!!!! If you so much as hiccup during a race you will get passed by the others around you who didn't make that mistake. It's intense from the drop of the flag to the checker, no letting off at all or you go backwards in the results. Most track days require 'safety cushion' passing rules of so many feet, until your swapping paint with someone while leaned over in a corner you don't know what it's like to be in a true racing situation. Doing too many track days leads many to get kinda "freaked out" once they actually go race because for as long as they have been going to the track it's always been a 'freindly' environment, actual race competition is an aggressive environment that's done as safe as possible, but things do happen. I have seen too many guys go back to doing track days because they did get freaked out, they said they needed to "do more track days before they raced again" - which in my opinion is exactly the OPPOSITE of what they should do.

Too each their own, this is just my opinion anyways!

[whitman]

you see the same issues being rehashed over and over. you need just the basic's and thats it. And experience is the best teacher so learn to go fast with what you have and then worry about more power.
whit

[OreoGaborio]

ahh... yeah i see what you're sayin, Mike... but on the other hand if you start racing after not having done enough trackdays, you're alot more likely to be a hazard to other riders... Being a rookie racer this year after having done about 15 trackdays I saw a LOT of rookie riders out there w/o a friggin CLUE as to what they were doing. They were a danger to themselves as well as others.

On the other hand, if you do "too many trackdays" at least the problem is only in your head, not in your riding... i'd much rather have a discomfort w/ proximity being the problem than a discomfort w/ my skills... getting used to riding close is easy to overcome, just do some close proximity drills w/ a person you trust.

[kl3640]

Guys, I appreciate your advice, but as I stated in my original post, building the bike is half the fun for me. I'm sorry if you don't agree with my approach, but you're not me, and my bike isn't yours. This is not my first track bike, nor am I jumping in to doing "performance mods" before I have good form or anything like that.

Also, GSXR-MIKE, sorry if you find my question upsetting, but if people want to spend money on their bike for the heck of it, so what? How many people actually need a liter bike on the street - but everyone goes out and gets one. Does anyone really need an aftermarket exhaust for the street, or power-up chips, or soft-compound tires? How many people can actually get everything out of a 1000 on the track, or even use it to within 10% of its full potential? To be honest, there aren't even that many people who can get everything out of a 600 on a track, or even get it to within 10% of its potential. So should we all be riding EX500's or CB100F's? Besides, your assumption that people should only work their bikes for race purposes is a bit strange to me - who says that someone wouldn't want to build a kick-butt track bike for track-days only, just put up good personal lap times, even if they are unofficial?

Also, your assumption that I haven't done any racing is sort of wrong. In addition to my extensive off-road racing background (which I acknowledge doesn't translate too well), I raced in a regional circuit run by a local track club for two seasons in a class of Light 2-Strokes, but I felt the need to go back to track days and start over the season before last when I switched to 4-strokes, because some of the fundamentals (especially braking) were so different to me, in addition to the reduction in low-end acceleration coupled with the sharp increase in top-end and 100MPH+ acceleration. While I wasn't near the track record because of the difference in machine class, I did ride well within 10% of the machine-class lap record. I also finished 3rd in the first season and 2nd in the next season out of an average field of almost 20 bikes per event, with 12 events in season 1 and 14 in season 2. I finished every single event (which is just as much a testament to my Honda as anything else), never having DNF'd, and had my share of race wins.

If there are people out there with a limited budget and they're asking where to spend their money to get the most bang for their buck, and who are getting too wrapped up in things, then your answer is fine. If there is someone like me who has a reasonable budget to spend (I have no compunction against spend $5K-$10K if I think that it's somehow worth it, although I'd be more inclined to spend the money on a better platform at that point) and who simply wants to build a great bike, if for no other reason than for the fun of building the bike, then what's it to you? I get just as annoyed by the average Macho Man Testosterone Junkie who just wants to know that his bike is crazy fast and go run AMA, for bragging rights or to make up for some psychological insecurity (small penis, Napoleon syndrome). I work at a bike shop and I see it all the time - people who just finished their MSF course, got their license endorsed that morning, and wondering if they should get the 1000 because they don't want to buy a 600 only to have to upgrade it in a couple of months when they've inevitably outgrown it, or people who buy a certain brand 1000 because it pumps out 7 more BHP than another brand and is 6 pounds lighter, or that has that cool undertail exhaust that serves to actually raise the center of mass on the bike while simultaneously melting the taillight assembly. Now that's not my personal philosophy on why or how I go about doing things, but if it was, then so what? It's my money...isn't it? If I was that way and didn't realize it, and you were doing me a favor by making me realize it, then fine. But again, that's not the case for me.

My situation is that I have some experience, I have a good stock bike, I have plenty of money to do things to it if I want, and I enjoy wrenching on bikes and building things just for the sake of building things sometimes. As long as I understand it, what's the harm?

I guess that I should have worded my original question differently, in that I wasn't looking for a strategy to use in approaching switching from track days to racing - I was looking for purely technical advice. I know that noone is trying to be a jerk, and I'm not trying to be a jerk back, but frankly, I don't want anyone's long-distance analysis of my skills or what I should or shouldn't bother with doing - I just want some technical information on track-bike mods.

With that having been stated, can we please move past the point of offering advice on why I should just ride a 12-Speed Huffy (or maybe a 1972 CB400A Hondamatic) for my first 100 races, and instead focus on what changes people typically make, starting with the most bang-for-the-buck (i.e., suspension setup), and going down to things that aren't really necessary for anyone but pros, but that are interesting from a technical perspective (i.e., ditching the battery and starter, etc...).

Thanks!

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

I personally have always stuck with the basics due to that providing me with the most choices and a generally more dependable platform. With a 750 your choices in race classes in CCS for example will be somewhat limited, (2) Supersport races, (2) superbike races, (1) 25 minute GT endurance race, and (1) Unlimited GP sprint race (which is the fastest of the fast class). This means in CCS you could run your bike in 6 classes, start modifying that bike too much and you can throw out the 2 Supersport classes, that leaves you with (3) sprint races and (1) 25 minute endurance. These are seriously fast classes with alot of fast racers in them.

Supersport rules in CCS basically say you can change the suspension, tires, chain, sprockets, bodywork, exhaust, and add a Power Commander type device to fuel injected bikes. If you want to you can also have a Supersport legal valve grind done as well. All except for the valves, this is what I do to my bikes, simple yet effective and leaves me with the most available class options for that bike.

[whitman]

seriously,
the reason everyone responded the way we did was you left out some critical info, like you have raced and were successful. Also usually someone who is in the know, knows that they need suspension first to go fast. so if money is no object then do it all and still leave it in street trim to some degree. Otherwise if you want some real answers go to the ask the tuner section and put your questions to jim. I have worked with him and he really knows his stuff on set up and what is the best bang for the buck. He is the crew chief for safety first racing, and they currently have two riders in the top ten in points in both 600 ss and fx as well. if he cant help than know one can.
whit
one more thing, I work in a shop to, and unless you are the owner you dont have a highlevel of extra income, so lighten up
people were trying to help you and you took it as a personal attack, its not. espcecially from mike and myself as we are the race mods, we are only here to help, and i dont think mike was frustrated with you, but with the recurrence of similar questions to yours that have been adressed in other threads.
Cheers

[clevis pin]

Originally Posted by GSXR RACER MIKE

I don't care how many track days anyone has done, racing is different.

You said it all in the first sentence.


Please don't be a doooofus racer and scream into the first forking corner and take a bunch of innocent racers out, okay? It happens in amateur racing - it happens in MotoGP: Stupid Sete Gibernau.

[clevis pin]

Oh, and to your ? -
First:
Change the suspension, if necessary, to make YOU feel comfortable. Do NOT listen to what everyone else does. YOU ride YOUR bike. Make it fit YOU.
Second:
Get tires that you can tell what they are doing. You MUST have feedback from your tires or you will be slow and maybe crash.
Third:
Brake lines and adjustable levers.

See ya on the podium.