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On The TrackHad a trackday, a good or bad day at the track? Want to get started racing? Just like racing? Cmon insde and post questions, results or comments.
After almost taking out himself and Melandri at Donnington and then winning the race, I wouldn't say thats too boring.
Then again, Last weeks battle between Hayden and Edwards was way better to watch. I knew they were both pushing way too hard for the win. I really wanted to see Edwards on top of the box, but better for Hayden's points lead for him to win.
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Eric
"A bad day racing is better than a good day working."
UhOh your gonna get nasty comment's from the Pedrosa fanboy's any minute!! I have to agree though, he's a very talented rider and would kick any of our asses on the track but he's a bit boring to watch being interviewed and doesn't really have a style that's loads of fun to watch like Rossi's or Haga's.
not the 'dani pedrose wins cause hes light' theory again
Power to weight ratio is very real and is the reason that many racing organizations for many different forms of racing worldwide have implemented (or are looking into implementing) power to weight ratios into combined vehicle and racer weights. For example in ASRA they have classes that call for a maximum power to weight ratio, this is checked by certified scales and a dyno in tech at the finish of the race - if your over the max P/W ratio your automatically disqualified.
At the upper ranks of racing (in almost any motorsport) you have the fastest of the fast collected to form the Pro's. These racers are not the fast guys in their region, they are the FASTEST! At the Pro level your taking the FASTEST racers from each region of different organizations and bringing it to the next level. Many of the fast guys can qualify to make a Pro grid at a Pro race, Hell I have qualifed to do that in the past, but that doesn't mean their going to be anything more than a backmarker in those races - yet they are truely fast racers. I have used Danica Patrick as an example before because she is such a great example of taking advantage of this very real factor. Danica is a fast racer, but take away her weight advantage and let's see how she does - I would wager good money she would be just another backmarker with the other fast regional racers out there trying to race Pro. I saw an interview with her a couple years ago where someone confronted her about her weight advantage asking her if she felt she had an advantage, she responded by admitting she did but that there was no way she would add ballast weight to her car to level the playing field.
A lighter racer can accelerate faster off the grid, reach higher speeds in the same distance, brake later and faster, and accelerate faster out of turns. Weight advantage is just as important as Horsepower, what better example than horse Jockies - only the smallest will suffice. Just because there's more Horsepower and weight doesn't mean it doesn't apply to motorsports, I know top regional racers that will only put enough fuel in their bikes to barely complete a race because they understand that the extra 20 lbs of fuel from 3 extra gallons will effect there overall performance. I can even tell the difference in my 7500 lb Pickup Truck when I have a full tank of gas or if it's empty, the vehicle accelerates and corners differently yet the weight difference is just over 2% of the total weight of the vehicle (anyone who's ridden with me knows I can corner the hell out of my F-250 Crewcab).
Power to weight ratio's are not being implemented in certain race organizations due to internal politic's, using Danica as an example again they are trying to draw female spectator interest into the sport of Indy car racing due to the money that can be made from that. Implementing P/W ratio in IRL would see Danica moving to the back of the grid, implementing it in MotoGP would see similar results with Pedrosa (Ironically, I read P/W ratio is currently being considered in MotoGP for 2007).
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"ON THE TRACK" forum MODERATOR
Questions, concerns, problems? P/M me.
What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
UhOh your gonna get nasty comment's from the Pedrosa fanboy's any minute!! I have to agree though, he's a very talented rider and would kick any of our asses on the track but he's a bit boring to watch being interviewed and doesn't really have a style that's loads of fun to watch like Rossi's or Haga's.
lol he is on vacation your gona have to give him a maybe 3 weeks to be back and find this thread.
I actually enjoy watching him race but when the helmet comes off.. *Yawn* SMILE Man You just won a f-ing MotoGP RACE! WOO WOO? come on!
Power to weight ratio is very real and is the reason that many racing organizations for many different forms of racing worldwide have implemented (or are looking into implementing) power to weight ratios into combined vehicle and racer weights.
I actually am not so sure I buy into the whole weight ratio thing. I can see on the 125's and maybe even in the 250's, but with the MotoGP bikes I think that it all balances out. Sure, a shrimp like Dani might be able to get better acceleration out of some turns, but the smaller guys also have to work more to keep the front down and weight the rear on the GP bikes. Rossi has about 35 lbs on Pedrosa and I don't think anyone would doubt that he can still ride circles around him when he is in full shape. That said, there might be a reason you don't really see any guys out there over 160 lbs...maybe that is getting into the upper limits.
And to clarify the purpose of me starting this thread... I must agree that Dani can ride and he won the last race fair and square, but holy horsecrap can you at least show some excitement for a win. Not that Pedrosa (or anyone else for that matter) gives a sh*t, but I will continue to hope for him to crash out until he actually shows some sort of personality. On the other hand, I am a big Hayden and Edwards fan, but I don't think anyone is a fun to watch win a Melandri. That guy goes bonkers when he wins!
I actually am not so sure I buy into the whole weight ratio thing. I can see on the 125's and maybe even in the 250's, but with the MotoGP bikes I think that it all balances out. Sure, a shrimp like Dani might be able to get better acceleration out of some turns, but the smaller guys also have to work more to keep the front down and weight the rear on the GP bikes. Rossi has about 35 lbs on Pedrosa and I don't think anyone would doubt that he can still ride circles around him when he is in full shape. That said, there might be a reason you don't really see any guys out there over 160 lbs...maybe that is getting into the upper limits.
I've made the point before that a heavier rider who wins or does well is a superior rider over a lighter rider for the very reason of weight effecting their performance. Sportbikes are designed for a rider who is apx 5'-7" to 5'-9", this is because the factory wants the bike designed for the majority of guys who will be racing them at the factory Pro level, the reason for this height range is indeed because of their weight.
Sadly many racers who are superior in talent and ability have been looked over by the top levels of racing due to their weight. Racing organizations around the world are realizing this so they are looking to implement the P/W ratio formulas in order to bring in talent that up until this point would have been looked over, currently what happens is factories will bring on riders who are fast, but have an advantage due to their low weight. You can't tell me that if every bike/rider combined weight was the same that the very small Jason DiSolvo would still be up front in races, I guarentee he wouldn't be, in fact if that were the case you would see a whole new finishing order at races - one that's more representative of the true ability of the riders. I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from smaller/lighter riders as being fast, but until they add weight ballast to their machines and get the same results I consider their finishes as circumstantial to their weight, not a true representation of ability against those they competed against.
And yes, Pedrosa has the TV personality of a brick. Though for different reasons Colin and Nicky could defenitely use some more on sceen coaching as representatives of the USA.
__________________
"ON THE TRACK" forum MODERATOR
Questions, concerns, problems? P/M me.
What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSXR RACER MIKE
I've made the point before that a heavier rider who wins or does well is a superior rider over a lighter rider for the very reason of weight effecting their performance. Sportbikes are designed for a rider who is apx 5'-7" to 5'-9", this is because the factory wants the bike designed for the majority of guys who will be racing them at the factory Pro level, the reason for this height range is indeed because of their weight.
Sadly many racers who are superior in talent and ability have been looked over by the top levels of racing due to their weight. Racing organizations around the world are realizing this so they are looking to implement the P/W ratio formulas in order to bring in talent that up until this point would have been looked over, currently what happens is factories will bring on riders who are fast, but have an advantage due to their low weight. You can't tell me that if every bike/rider combined weight was the same that the very small Jason DiSolvo would still be up front in races, I guarentee he wouldn't be, in fact if that were the case you would see a whole new finishing order at races - one that's more representative of the true ability of the riders. I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from smaller/lighter riders as being fast, but until they add weight ballast to their machines and get the same results I consider their finishes as circumstantial to their weight, not a true representation of ability against those they competed against.
+1 Power to weight has profound effects on a racing bike. Why do you think that special weight limits were established on different powerplant types in WSB initially? The theory was that they would be at a horsepower disadavantage, and weight would level the playing field. Now that the bikes in WSB are at the same displacement and weight limits, what has happened? Ducati is asking for a displacement increase for twins.
So, using this model, same power + less weight = advantage.
Mat Oxley goes further in his recent RRW article. He thinks that smaller riders are easier on the bikes and tires, so they can dial in MORE horsepower.
I think the across the board weight limit is best to equalize the playing field.
Dani Pedrosa
