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04-01-2006, 11:55 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Roadracer since '96
SBN Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rockford Illinois
Age: 38
Posts: 1,493
Casino Cash: $12277
Sportbike: 2002GSXR750 1999GSXR600 1996GSXR750
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What's important, and what's not!
Knowing what is truely important for the track, and what isn't, can save you ALOT of time, money, and frustration and make your track time much more enjoyable. So often riders who are looking to do track days or start racing do things to their bikes which are a waste, or may even prohibit them from getting on the track because they spent money on things that they didn't need. A great example is having an awesome carbon fiber exhaust canister that looks really cool, by using that your risking alot because it may break or shatter in an impact, aluminum canisters are much better survivors when crashed and they will probably still be usable.
There are essentially 3 things that are important for the track: knowledge/experience, tires, and suspension/bike set-up. Riding on the street teaches and reinforces many bad habits every time you ride there, breaking yourself of those habits on the track can be difficult and is a common reason many Expert and Pro roadracers don't ride on the street at all (myself included - riding on the street is very rare for me). The habits I'm refering to are most commonly defense mechanisms combined with lack of accurate knowledge of motorcycles. Riding defensively, being concerned about other drivers actions, watching for animals and objects in the street, using the rear brake, and taking aweful lines thru turns are all examples of bad habits that are of no real use on the track. Like with many things in life there is the correct way to do things, then there is the way that most people do things. Education of the proper way to do things on the track is almost priceless knowledge, seeking instruction from reputable schools and instructors is one of the single best things you can do to improve rapidly on the track in a short period of time. No matter how good you THINK you are on the street, you've probably developed some deep-seeded habits (if your an experienced rider) that are going to show once you get on the track, instructors can identify these problems and work with you on correcting them. If you are looking to spend money to improve your riding/track ability I would by far spend it on training, not the latest race tires on the market. Being shown proper lines, correcting your body positioning, getting your bikes set-up correct for the equipment you have, and a whole list of other things by a reputable instructor is something that will advance your ability without all the frustration that comes from doing it the un-instructed way. Getting experience by doing things correctly from the start is such a HUGE advantage that it should be required (in my opinion) to be on the track, not just a basic 1/2 or 1 day introductory school. If you have the opportunity to get personalized 1 on 1 instruction from a reputable person/instructor, especially if it includes a 'cat and mouse' follow the leader type of situation out on the track, your advancement will be very fast (which is good for both track day riders and racers).
Bad information is another huge problem concerning riders, both on the track and the street. Just because someone is fast doesn't automatically make them a good advisor to a new track rider/racer if they don't have the ability to convey accurate knowledge in an easy to understand way (confusing information may prove to be more harmful than good by having the new person mis-interpretting something important). I would especially take info you get about being on the track with a grain of salt from riders who really don't have that much experience (whether track day rider or racer), they may have good intentions, but ultimately may be giving you bad info that they recieved themselves. One of the most common bad advice things I hear is about 'late braking', this is terrible advice to new riders and racers because in almost all cases it will cause an inexperienced person to the track to totally screw up the turn and not carry any real speed thru it like they should be. Learning to carry speed thru a turn is far more important than 'late braking' and is the main reason starting on a lower Horsepower bike like a 250, 400, 500, or twin 650 is so beneficial to becoming a GREAT rider/racer.
Today there are many tires available for street, street/track, and track only. Knowing what you plan to do concerning track time is important in what tires you choose to run on your bike. The differences between a street tire and a race tire are not generally obvious by looking at them by the average person, differences include type of rubber, construction of the belts, and profile. Race tires are designed to work best at a certain temperature, this is the reason that tire warmers and a 'hot lap' around the track before the actual race are used. Race tires are very effected by 'heat cycles', a heat cycle is the tire going from standing temp - to operating temp - then cooling back down again. Let's say that the target operating temp for a specific race tire is 150*, that is the point where that tire will have it's best traction. Every time a race tire goes thru a heat cycle the target operating temperature raises slightly, let's say 3* for this example. So after 5 heat cycles your tires now need to get 15* hotter than they did the 1st time you used them, 165* would now be the new target operating temp in this example. The problem comes with the fact that at this point you most likely will not be able to get the tires hot enough out on the track to reach the prime operating temperature, so what results is a reduction in traction capability of the tire at the temperatures you can get them up to out on the track. Don't think that you can just crank up the heat on your tire warmers to compensate for this either, after a lap or two your tires will now have cooled down to what ever temp your able to keep them at out on the track. This is a real problem on colder days when a person will use tire warmers to get their tires up to operating temperature, go out on the track having great traction for a lap or two, then as the tires cool down due to colder air and track temperatures they will not have near as much traction as they did when they 1st went out on the track. This can result in slides that seem to happen for no apparent reason or possibly even crashes if the person is not prepared for the tires to have (in some cases) dramatically less traction than they did on the 1st lap. Just because a race tire has a number of heat cycles on it doesn't mean that it's not any good any more, it just means that it's absolute limit of traction has been lowered slightly and still remains a very usable tire for someone not pushing the limits of traction to that extreme, that's why used race tires (called 'take-off's) that are still in decent condition are a great deal usually. As tires go thru heat cycles oils in the rubber will often come to the surface and create a somewhat blue coloring, especially in the area's of most use, this does NOT mean they are junk.
Another issue is understanding traction and it's limits, which I believe should be a progressive journey. Starting with street tires on the track will let you experience what it's like to have tires slide sooner, but ultimately could maybe get you a little 'gun shy' when you do eventually step up to a track oriented tire with considerably better traction and handling, kind of a double edged sword. Starting with an all out race tire has it's disadvantages as well because you will not have the knowledge of what it was like to have tires slide at a slower pace on tires that weren't as good. Since it will take considerably more to get true race tires to slide you will be in a much more intense situation and going substantially faster when it does finally happen which means you will have far less time to react to it and you may get kinda freaked out because you had never experienced that before. A huge advantage race tires have over lesser tires is 'predictability' and 'feel' when sliding, street oriented tires will slide sooner and quicker than race tires which will typically have a very predictable and confident feel to them. In my opinion learning what it feels like to have the tires slide at a slower pace is valuable knowledge, look at the Hayden brothers, they all grew up dirt track racing which requires alot of sliding and throttle control at a pace slower than what they experience while road racing. It's up to you which route you choose to take, but I personally wouldn't suggest jumping immediately into using an all out race tire from the start, I personally progressed from a street tire to race tires in a series of three steps and it gave me a great base of knowledge because of that.
For financial reasons I had to back down on spending money to go racing for the last few years, this meant using my tires as long as possible. Without any exaggeration at all, I used a pair of Dunlop D208GP race tires for 2 1/2 seasons before replacing them, this was while racing almost EVERY event in my region during that time period. I will admit that I certainly couldn't run up front with them, but I could consistently and confidently run at about 10% off the track record with them and they still held the track and gave great 'feedback' of the current traction condition, most likely your not going to be going too much faster than that till you start racing hard. What I'm getting at is too many people go thru tires like popcorn, my opinion is if they are not sliding, then why replace them? Tire cost is probably the #1 expense that keeps people out of racing or upgrading tires for doing track days, this is definately an area of consideration for anyone looking to get on the track.
Tire construction and profile varies amongst manufacturers, each has their own theories as to why theirs is the best, but ultimately they all have similar goals in mind. Street tires generally have the belts molded inside of them traveling 'radially' around the outside diameter of the tire, race tires generally have more of a side to side or diagonal pattern of their belts with some belts possibly traveling radially around the tire as well. "Radials", as most people know them on car tires, create a smoother ride while traveling in a straight line, but can have limitations in cornering ability due to lack of adequate lateral (side to side) belts. Motorcycle race tires have lateral belts molded in them to provide stability of the tires profile when cornering, the minor disadvantage to this can be straight line ride characteristics, but while on a race track "who cares"! Another feature of a race tire is the shape or 'profile' of the tire, true race tires have more of a 'V' shape to them than street tires, this is the reason the bikes can lean over so far, because they actually have a larger contact area when leaned over. Tire air pressure is also very important because it's what holds the tires profile in place when cornering and lets it somewhat distort to contact the asphalt better. Too much air pressure and the tire is more round shaped so less tire contacts the ground equalling less traction. Not enough air pressure and the tire will feel like your riding on Jello, this is a scary feeling and can cause some really crazy results depending on how low your tire pressure is. Another issue with tire profile is that it can be different enough between tire makes and models (even within 1 manufacturer) to throw off the 'geometry' or 'set-up' of your bike and make it handle poorly because of that alone. This is a very common reason that some people say that they had a bad experience with a certain tire and other people think they are great. Changing the 'set-up' of your bike for each tires profile is something that places like GMD Computrac does with a laser coordinate measuring machine, this is really the only accurate way to test different tires (this is the way Road Racing World Magazine does their tire tests for example). Due to this the reason many people have a better experience with one tire over another has more to do with the bikes 'set-up' than the tire itself.
A huge impovement in tire technology in the last decade is in the street/track tires available today (I call them an intermediate), these tires have great grip both on the street and the track and have decent tread life expectancy as well. These tires are effected by heat cycles like true race tires, but not nearly as bad, so they are a great choice for people looking to do track days at a fast pace. With the massive increase in the capability of this type of 'intermediate' tire I have to say it is probably the best choice for all but the fastest track day riders and Amateur racers. If your just starting out doing track days, and your street tires are still in good condition, I personally would give them a chance at your 1st track day. You may find that your current tires (if in decent condition and not flat spotted in the middle of the tire) will be more than good enough when starting out. If you find your pushing the limits of your street tires in your 1st track day it's not the end of the world, I personally think knowing what it's like to have a tire slide controllably is a great learning experience (but should be approached slowly and cautiously). If you find yourself in this situation try and figure out what you can do to your lines thru the corners to stop them from sliding, this is great training in tire conservation because it teaches you how to save your tires by not putting so much load into them while still going fast.
So if your looking to get on the track, without wasting unneccesary money, I would 1st focus on training so you learn to do things properly and don't have to break bad habits you develop on the track by doing uninstructed laps. I personally say you need to learn to crawl, then walk, then run - skipping any of those steps will probably end up biting you in the long run. If you want to spend money on your bike I would focus on getting the suspension set-up for your weight and capability, this is by far the most important thing you can physically do to your bike to improve it's capability with upgrading your tires being 2nd, but only after your suspension has been done 1st (my personal opinion). Don't waste your money at 1st on all the 'bling' modifications that will do nothing to make you a better rider or racer, instead focus on what makes YOU a better rider or racer! Don't worry, you'll be looking like you know what your doing soon enough, don't rush it! 
__________________
"ON THE TRACK" forum MODERATOR
Questions, concerns, problems? P/M me.
What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
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04-02-2006, 03:13 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Supersport Racer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 152
Casino Cash: $1605
Sportbike: 00GSXR600/02954RR
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Great write up!!
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04-30-2006, 09:22 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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SBN Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Calif.
Age: 42
Posts: 1
Casino Cash: $250
Sportbike: 00' cbr 929
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Would you recamend A novice training scool for the first time out .
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04-30-2006, 10:07 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Roadracer since '96
SBN Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rockford Illinois
Age: 38
Posts: 1,493
Casino Cash: $12277
Sportbike: 2002GSXR750 1999GSXR600 1996GSXR750
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by THIRSTY
Would you recamend A novice training scool for the first time out .
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I am a HUGE encourager (is that a word? LOL) of any training by reputable schools, instructors, or in some cases very experienced racers that can convey accurate info to you. I did it the hard way - went into racing not knowing 1 person that already did it, had never been on a race track ever, and only took the basic rider licensing school (which just shows you BASICS of being on the track and familiarizes you with the structure of a racing event). Knowing what I know now, if I had only sought instruction from the begining I would have been racing Pro by my 3rd season, but I had the thought like so many guys that "I'm smart, I'm pretty damn fast, so I can figure it out for myself", WRONG!!!!! I actually worked my way up to the front group by my 2nd season, but had I been shown how to do things correctly, been told why suspension was SOOOO important, had some education in how and why suspension works the way it does all from the begining, I would now be in a whole different situation as far as racing goes.
You can do it like so many others and just go turn lap after lap and develop bad habits, or you can seek instruction from the begining. Both will get you faster, but the uninstructed way will definately be a much longer journey, you will probably have more crashes, and it will require you to rethink how you do things as you get faster. As I like to say: crawl, then walk, then run! Even if you never plan on racing, knowing how to do things correctly from the start is a MAJOR advantage over someone not traveling that route. Being taught the correct way to do things will make it much easier to go fast and be smooth while doing it, that is one of the biggest things most Amateur racers notice when they go Expert, is how smooth the Experts are while going so damn fast!
Again, I can't stress enough that if you truely want to learn how to do things correctly pay the money when you start going to the track to get quality instruction. One on one or small group instruction is the best, especially if you get to have some one on one time with an instructor out on the track, following an instructor that is showing you correct lines, and having them follow you as well to see what your doing right and wrong, is one of the fastest ways to develop your ability (at what ever level you wish to achieve). I would encorage anyone to spend more money on instruction instead of more track time, get the basics down 1st, then time on the track after that will be fun and safer. I would guess by your age that you don't want to be spending years learning things the hard way, I would spend the money on structured schools that teach improvement like the California Superbike School (CSS) for one. There are many other schools out there as well, but make sure and read their websites to find out what your getting for your money, I have seen too many times where people didn't get the training they thought they were going to get because they expected more than a school was saying it would teach. I said CSS because off the top of my head it's a great example of what a highly structured program is like, even if you go with someone else it's a great program to compare to for what your getting for your money.
***DISCLAIMER***
I don't have any affiliation with the CSS, have never taken any of their programs, but I have read the (3) Keith Code books. Do not take my refering to them as being a suggestion to go there over any other schools, everyone needs to make up their own mind as to what they want to get for their money!
__________________
"ON THE TRACK" forum MODERATOR
Questions, concerns, problems? P/M me.
What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
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04-30-2006, 10:22 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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World Superbike Champion
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Age: 22
Posts: 673
Casino Cash: $350
Sportbike: 02 SV650S
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Great read, thanks!
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05-08-2006, 02:25 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Club Racer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
Posts: 62
Casino Cash: $250
Sportbike: Fastone
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GSXR RACER MIKE
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Bad information is another huge problem concerning riders, both on the track and the street. I would especially take info you get about being on the track with a grain of salt from riders who really don't have that much experience (whether track day rider or racer), they may have good intentions, but ultimately may be giving you bad info that they recieved themselves.

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Just as a reminder to everyone who read this. I would also add getting advice from BBS forums.
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05-08-2006, 09:50 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Roadracer since '96
SBN Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rockford Illinois
Age: 38
Posts: 1,493
Casino Cash: $12277
Sportbike: 2002GSXR750 1999GSXR600 1996GSXR750
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by G97
Just as a reminder to everyone who read this. I would also add getting advice from BBS forums.
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Great point!
What I write on this site is my OPINION based on what I have experienced and learned since I took my new racer licensing school back in '95 and started racing in '96, I will give a short description of who I am. I raced Amateur for 2 seasons ('96 - '97), then advanced to Expert in '98. Though I was a fast street guy, my 1st season as an Amateur I was slow as dirt compared to the fast Amateurs, but by mid season I had picked up the pace due to a combination of race experience and a massive knowledge/ability changing experience I had at a school about 2/3 of the way thru that season. In my 2nd season as an Amateur I was a consistent top 5 racer and was almost always a Top 10 finisher. Before Starting my 1st Expert season in '98 I took a 3 day long suspension seminar in Indianapolis put on by Paul Thede (owner and developer of RaceTech suspension products), that season I was immediately in the Top 10 Experts at my 1st event in the Heavyweight and Unlimited classes with Top 5 finishes as well. I was one of the fast guys in the Midwest for a couple years, yet I never won a race ever! I had been 2nd place so many times it sickened me, but it seemed everytime I was winning something would happen that didn't allow me to win (failed coil, ran out of gas, fried tires, ran off the track by the 2nd place racer making a desperate move, etc.). In my 1st 4 years of racing I amassed something over $60,000+ in credit card debt, debt which I still have yet today and is a financial noose strangling my ability to be a fast guy again. My racing 'career' changed after a bad high-side crash at Road America while passing for 3rd place in a National race (70+ riders on the track at that time) which left me with a torn shoulder and questioning my mortality at that time. Since then I have "stayed involved" in racing by still racing, but now I pay for everything as I go, credit is something I try and avoid as much as possible. It has been difficult sometimes over the last few seasons to go out on the track and just run at the back of the pack knowing that I have the ABILITY to be up toward the front, but not the FINANCES at this moment to do it. That's who I am, and basically what I have done.
I have been writing these sections about track basics as/per suggestions by a number of members, Mod's, and Administrators of SBN as to this being a badly needed addition to this site. I realize that everyone (myself included) has their own version as to what is best for others, but I also realize that often times peoples motives as to giving certain advice is to ultimately benefit themselves. My motivation in giving advice to others is to try and show potential racers (and even track day riders) that it's not that difficult to get out on the track and go do it for themselves. Training/coaching in all forms of sports can bring impressive gains in ability (and substantail rewards if so desired to be persued to the Professional level). The only alterior motive I may have is to try and get new people into racing as opposed to just doing track days, I certainly don't think less of someone because they don't race, but I hate it when I see truely talented people not getting into racing when they really should be. In the end it's up to each and every individual reading ANYTHING - ANYWHERE - to evaluate for themselves what they read and to implement any or all of it accordingly. Had the internet been around like it is today my own personal experience would have been very different, I may have then done track days and/or schools before beginning racing, or I might have got my bike set-up properly from the start for racing - who knows? But I do know that starting out 1st with racing gets you use to the competition aspect of being on the track from the begining, to the best of my knowledge 'racing' other riders at trackdays is strictly forbidden by many track day org's. But on the other hand if someone questions their ability, or has no desire to race, or just wants to blow off some throttle frustration, then doing track days may be the thing for them. As I said in the original post here, each rider should check into what it is that they are going to get in return for their money if they are seeking instruction, I don't think that is an unfair statement in any way shape or form. As for what's important and what's not, well that again is up to each individual, but after seeing so many people blow money on things and services that won't improve them as a rider, I can only hope that I may have helped give a basic direction to go for someone coming into this without any prior knowledge. 
__________________
"ON THE TRACK" forum MODERATOR
Questions, concerns, problems? P/M me.
What you just read is my opinion and is based on my experiences and the info I have acquired during my life, it's my interpretation and isn't written in stone. Yes, I post long responses regularly because I like to fully explain my views. Don't like it or agree with what I have to say? Then don't read it or respond to it! Respond like an immature idiot to posts of mine and I will just ignore you. Have a nice day.
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05-09-2006, 08:04 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Represent
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: John Brown Wax Museum
Age: 29
Posts: 1,058
Casino Cash: $250
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Great read! Thanks a lot Mike!
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03 Honda RC51 The Pig
04 Yamaha R1 Track Ho
06 KTM 625 SMC Hooligan-Mobile
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06-10-2006, 08:18 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Club Racer
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Charlotte
Age: 24
Posts: 78
Casino Cash: $250
Sportbike: 2006 R6
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Yeah, Lots of great info. I have a hard enough time paying for insurance....... This sport is expensive. A little to much for me. But one day I'll be out there.
__________________
06 R6-the yellow one
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94- Honda (beater) civic -less HP than my bike
Walmart hubcaps, Jack-in-the box antenna ball, Drunk friends auto roof denter, Pine Fresh car scenter
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10-05-2006, 06:22 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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SBN Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: nova
Posts: 1
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Sportbike: 04suzukiGSX-R
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+1 good post racer mike
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11-04-2007, 09:37 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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St'er and Racer
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ma
Age: 56
Posts: 39
Casino Cash: $978
Sportbike: Honda ST1300, SV650 race bike
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Mike,
Good post.
I did the Penguin school at Loudin back in Sept and got my race license on a friend's bike. What a blast!
So far I've done two races, and I'm he slowest rider on the track, but It's so much fun! Wife and I started corner working during the last race weekend, and found out we could get comp'd for our admission and actually PAID!.
I'm looking at buying a 500-600cc something that I can race on myself. I think the racing aspect enhances the entire motorcycling experience, and adds another element to our overall competence.
Steve.
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11-06-2007, 05:19 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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Cheap Bastid
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Topsfield MA
Age: 28
Posts: 3,840
Casino Cash: $15438
Sportbike: '03 Aprilia Tuono... '89 Kawi EX500 (race)........... '02 Kawi KX250 (dirt)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by steve3b3
Mike,
Good post.
I did the Penguin school at Loudin back in Sept and got my race license on a friend's bike. What a blast!
So far I've done two races, and I'm he slowest rider on the track, but It's so much fun! Wife and I started corner working during the last race weekend, and found out we could get comp'd for our admission and actually PAID!.
I'm looking at buying a 500-600cc something that I can race on myself. I think the racing aspect enhances the entire motorcycling experience, and adds another element to our overall competence.
Steve.
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Steve, welcome to the track world  I race at NHIS asl well (well, NHMS now that ownership has changed hands... we'll see how that works out for us  )
One thing that I'd like to suggest to you is doing some track days. I'd make the eductated guess that about 75% of new racers have done at least 2-5 track days & it's 110% worth the money. You'll see your riding improve & your lap times drop considerably.
Take myself for example, I did about 2 full seasons of track days (04, and 05) before I began racing in 2006 (still do 8-10 track days a year) and my lap times dropped from 1:35's to 1:25's within a single race season.... on a 50hp EX500, no less.
I can't stress how much safer & quicker Track Days can make you. I believe in them enough that I currently volunteer my time to instruct for the premier track day org in New England (link in my sig). Click the link below & check it out.
BTW, check out New England Streetriders as well.. awesome new england forum w/ tons of knowledgable track riders & racers  :
Last edited by OreoGaborio : 11-06-2007 at 05:22 PM.
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06-01-2008, 07:09 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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World Superbike Racer
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Columbus
Age: 22
Posts: 507
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very informative...I'm considering getting int | |