UFC 58: USA v CANADA

[snigg]

Since this PPV is right around the corner, i want everyones predictions. Predict the winner, how they win(KO, sub, TKO, decision), and what round. Here is the card.

Rich Franklin Vs. David Loiseau - Franklin by TKO(possibly sub, but I will say TKO), 2nd round.
Georges St. Pierre Vs. BJ Penn - Penn by sub, 2nd round.
Nate Marquardt Vs. Joe Doerksen - Doerksen by sub, 1st round.
Mike Swick Vs. Steve Vigneaul - Swick by TKO, 1st round.
Yves Edwards Vs. Mark Hominick - Edwards by TKO, 2nd round.
Kenny Florian Vs. Sam Stout - Florian by sub, 2nd round.
Diego Sanchez Vs. John Alessio - Sanchez by TKO, 1st round.

Some of these might have gone against what I said in previous threads, but these are my predictions of what I think is going to happen. Personally I would rather see Loiseau take the MW belt from Franklin, and the GSP v Penn fight could go either way, and I have no preference who wins(I like them both). Let's hear those predictions, so after the PPV I can say I told ya so.

On another note, if anyone is close to Columbus, OH there is some MMA fights(Team Gracie fighters v Team Hammerhouse fighters) the first weekend in March. The following day is the gracie worlds BJJ tournament. I will be in attendence for the MMA fights and might stick around for the tournament/compete. Haven't made up my mind yet. If anyone feels like going, let me know and I can get more details. Here is a link to the fight card. http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=4005

[ArcanaSV]

Franklin-tko
St. Pierre-tko
Doerkson-sub
Swick-tko
Ewards-sub
Florian-tko on a cut
Sanchez-tko

[snigg]

that florian prediction could be right. he might land an elbow and open up a nice cut.

[ArcanaSV]

the more i see florian the more and more i like him, i dont know why though. i'm glad they are bring the LW class back, he will be much better suited once he moves back down there. the kids got wicked elbows and likes to stand even though he's got good bjj.

also, on the swick prediction. i really wanna say he wins by ko, but if he does connect cleanly the guys going to sleep. the thing is though, his hands are fast enough to land a few more on the way down or before the ref jumps in... so they'll just call it a tko.

[Gixxerworld]

can't f'ing wait, should be good

[snigg]

Originally Posted by Gixxerworld

can't f'ing wait, should be good

dude you cant post in this thread unless you make predictions, so lets hear 'em.

[snigg]

Originally Posted by ArcanaSV

the more i see florian the more and more i like him, i dont know why though. i'm glad they are bring the LW class back, he will be much better suited once he moves back down there. the kids got wicked elbows and likes to stand even though he's got good bjj.

also, on the swick prediction. i really wanna say he wins by ko, but if he does connect cleanly the guys going to sleep. the thing is though, his hands are fast enough to land a few more on the way down or before the ref jumps in... so they'll just call it a tko.

i hear that on the florian call. he will be decent at 155 for sure. if he can get some stand up work in, and get that computer nerd physique taken care of he'll be even better. i loved that fight against cope. i also think kit cope could be successful once he learns some BJJ. his stand up skills are great and he hits hard, but his ground game is nonexistent, as seen by the florian fight. who else do you see being competitive at 155? pulver come back? sherk cut to 155? i need to educate myself on this lightweight division now that it is making a come back.

[Travis71902]

Rich Franklin Vs. David Loiseau - Franklin by Sub, 3rd round...but if Loiseau cuts Franklin with an elbow.......

Georges St. Pierre Vs. BJ Penn -Big tossup here. If GSP can avoid the sub he wins, so I take GSP. He'll be the champ in a few months anyways. After this win hes gonna get a title shot.

Nate Marquardt Vs. Joe Doerksen - Marquartd has WAY too much class for Doerksen. This will be a good one. Marquardt by decision.

Mike Swick Vs. Steve Vigneaul - Not sure which way this will go, but I can guarantee somebody gets knocked in the 1st round. Could go either way.

Yves Edwards Vs. Mark Hominick - Edwards by decision

Kenny Florian Vs. Sam Stout - Florian by sub, 1st round. Florian is gonna own the lightweight division.

Diego Sanchez Vs. John Alessio - Sanchez by TKO, 2nd round. Umm, I dont see this kid getting by Sanchez, but he does have experience behind him.

Rob MacDonald Vs. Jason Lambert - Lambert by TKO 2nd round.

Tom Murphy Vs. Christophe Midoux - Ehhh, Murphy by decision.

All in all the US is gonna OWN Canada in this ppv. I think the only Canadian I got winning is GSP. Can't wait!

[ArcanaSV]

Originally Posted by snigg

who else do you see being competitive at 155? pulver come back? sherk cut to 155? i need to educate myself on this lightweight division now that it is making a come back.

competitive at 155? hmm, florian will do good. i'm not sure what pulvers contract with pride looks like right now, but he would be a great addidition. bang ludwig fights at 155 dosnt he? or at least he has right? since yves edwards is on this card i would hope that means they have him under contract again and got him away from pride. josh 'the punk' thomson is another good one, but i have no idea where he has been lately, the last time i saw him was in a pride bushido ppv.

hmm, looking at the UFC roster on the website... they have these guys all listed at 155 already... that dosnt mean anything though since they have a bunch of guys on there that arent under contract right now with them, but ya never know

mike brown
yves edwards
kenny florian
hermes franca
mark hominick
duane ludwig
sam stout
josh thomson
genki sudo- locked in with shooto right now i think though

oh, by the way, travis... yves edwards is gonna wreck the lightweight division

[snigg]

next thing we know riggs will be at 155

[Travis71902]

Looks like Diego's sick, so his match is off. Too bad too, I really wanted to se him fight again.

Florians hurt too and wont be fighting. Also unfortunate as I wanted to see him fight.

Instead we get Spencer Fisher vs. Sam Stout

Should be a good fight, striker vs. striker. Ill say Fisher by TKO in 1st, but Ill be pulling for Stout.

[snigg]

yeh that shit sucks. i wanted to see florian at 155, and also wanted to see how diego performed. hopefully diego can get sherk after sherk puts the GnP on diaz.

[Travis71902]

Penn Pre-St. Pierre: "I am the real champion!"

All hail the return of the true UFC welterweight champion. Or so B.J. Penn (Pictures) would have you believe. The welterweight Penn is set to make his eagerly awaited return to action inside the Octagon on Saturday versus Georges St. Pierre (Pictures).

“Yes, I am the real UFC welterweight champion,” a proud Penn declared to Sherdog.com. “I feel as though this will be my first defense of the title. I don’t care what anybody says: Matt Hughes (Pictures) is just a paper champion. Hughes is not the true champion. I am. He was given that belt. I am going to annihilate St. Pierre and then for my second defense, I will allow Hughes the chance to fight me for my title.”

“Hughes is a great fighter, don’t get me wrong,” he added. “But he is not the real champion. I am the real champion. I look forward to proving to the world why I am the best and why I am the real champion.”

Penn isn’t the only person who agrees that the Hilo, Hawaii native is the real champion in the welterweight division. Former UFC middleweight contender Matt Lindland (Pictures), who has been training with Penn for his upcoming bout against St. Pierre, insists that Hughes’ title is only material.

“Let’s face it, B.J. is the true champion of the UFC, not Matt Hughes (Pictures),” Lindland said. “This is nothing against Matt at all, but he is not the true champion. He may hold a belt around his waist, but we all know that B.J. never lost his title and that he is true welterweight champion. I love Matt Hughes (Pictures) and he is a tremendous warrior, but he isn’t the real champion. People may get mad when they read this, but it’s true.”

Anybody who follows the sport of mixed martial arts, particularly the Ultimate Fighting Championship, knows full well what happened between Penn and Zuffa, the company that owns the UFC, after the Hawaiian took the title from Hughes on January 31, 2004.

Following the fight, Penn and Zuffa butted heads on multiple issues. Penn’s fight contract with Zuffa expired and he expected to re-sign with the company, have a string of fights lined up and earn more money.

But when nothing immediately happened, he opted to defend his title as the world’s best pound-for-pound fighter outside of the Octagon. Penn craved a showdown with American Muay Thai star Duane Ludwig (Pictures) and wound up duking it out with him inside the confines of a K-1 MMA-ROMANEX ring. From there, things became quite sticky as a stipulation in UFC contracts deemed any fighter who became a champion in the organization would automatically come under a new contract.

Penn sought legal action against the UFC, verbal confrontations ensued and the court battle was ignited. Just weeks before the parties were to go to trial, the UFC settled out of court. And Penn eventually signed a new lucrative contract with Zuffa. Once that occurred, according to Penn, everything settled down between “The Prodigy” and the UFC.

“There isn’t any bad blood between me and Dana White anymore,” the Hawaiian sensation professed. “He’s an alright guy in person and he has actually been receiving a lot of flack lately. He’s a good guy but I don’t want to get into detail about our court case [that was settled]. It’s legal stuff. We have a great case and it’s over, so there is really no point in really going into details. That’s behind me and I’m sure it’s behind Dana, too. All I know is that [Dana and I] sat down, had a few conversations and we agreed that I’d come back to the UFC. And I am back to defend my title and then hopefully allow Matt Hughes (Pictures) to fight me for my title.”

But in order for Penn to square off against Hughes again he must first get past the extraordinarily talented St. Pierre.

Penn-St. Pierre is the chief support bout of UFC 58’s main event between UFC middleweight king Rich Franklin (Pictures) and St. Pierre’s teammate David Loiseau (Pictures). Amid all the real/fake champion talk involving Hughes, one must not think that Penn is looking beyond St. Pierre.

“St. Pierre is a really good fighter, but I think it will be the experience of B.J. that will win the fight,” stated Renato Verissimo (Pictures), one of Penn’s main teammates. “St. Pierre has fought some tough guys like Sean Sherk (Pictures) and Frank Trigg (Pictures), but he hasn’t fought anyone on the level of B.J. He has fought at 170 for a long time, where B.J. has fought everywhere and beat some great guys. He beat Renzo Gracie (Pictures), Rodrigo Gracie (Pictures) and Takanori Gomi (Pictures), plus Matt Hughes (Pictures). B.J. has done it all and he is ready for anything. Let’s hope that St. Pierre is equally as ready because it should be a great fight.”

Lindland agreed with that notion and stated that he couldn’t begin to think of a way in which St. Pierre would be triumphant.

“St. Pierre looks like a guy who can become great,” admitted Lindland. “From what I’ve seen of him, the guy is fantastic. He’s strong, elusive and has a ton of skills. But I don’t think he can win against B.J. St. Pierre is good, don’t get me wrong, but he has lost to guys that B.J. submits in the first round. The fight should be good, but I just don’t see how B.J. can lose. I just don’t.”

Penn stated that this recent training camp has been a tremendous success, probably the best he’s ever had in his career, a prime example of his concern with St. Pierre’s talents.

“BJ is looking terrific,” Verissimo claimed. “He is focused and has probably had the best training so far. He is very happy when he trains. Very relaxed. We brought in some top guys like Matt Lindland (Pictures) to help us out and I think B.J. is ready for anything that happens.”

“I am feeling really good for this fight and I feel great about coming back into the UFC,” Penn quipped.

“B.J.’s looking real good right now,” Lindland added. “I trained with B.J. for about eight days and he’s incredible. The guy just keeps improving every time out. I worked with him before for when he was training to fight Matt Hughes (Pictures) and he is almost a completely different fighter now. The guy is amazing. I’ve never seen someone who can keep improving constantly. To be a champion and keep improving is amazing.”

No matter how well Penn has performed during training, however, he still has to face St. Pierre, a fighter who is on the verge of greatness. Fresh off of a spectacular demolition of powerhouse Sherk and a slick submission over the durable Trigg, the Canadian expects to challenge Hughes after the Penn fight, a move he hopes will allow him to avenge the only blemish on an otherwise spotless professional ledger.

Many are predicting that St. Pierre is the future of the sport and are putting their reputations on the line by predicting his victory. St. Pierre is actually a slight favorite in the vast majority of the sports books taking wagers on MMA, a surprising circumstance considering Penn’s immense talents and legendary career.

“I put money on him to win and not just because I have been training with him,” Lindland said. “I don’t see how anyone can think St. Pierre stands a chance against him. So, I laid some money down and with B.J. being the underdog, this should be some easy money for me.”

Both Lindland and Verissimo predicted “The Prodigy” would triumph over St. Pierre via vicious ground-and-pound. But Penn was more reserved.

“I don’t have any predictions about this fight,” he said. “I am not going to say if I’ll knock Georges out or submit because I don’t know. All I know is that I will win. Believe me. But I can’t sit here and predict exactly how I’ll do it. That’s not my style. I don’t like guys who sit back, talk trash and make these wild predictions. I just don’t do that.

“But I will say this, however, Georges is a great guy. You probably will never meet a nicer, more genuine guy than Georges St. Pierre (Pictures). He is friendly, doesn’t have a bad thing to say about anyone and is very humble. He has fun doing this and he enjoys everything about this sport, at least that how he seems to me. Georges is a great guy. Just a good human being. He’s a very good fighter, too, and it should be a good test for me. I look forward to fighting him.”

[Travis71902]

what an awesome fucking show!!!

LAS VEGAS, March 4 – Tonight was supposed to be Rich Franklin’s toughest test yet, but after a five round battering of courageous challenger David Loiseau at UFC 58 – USA vs Canada before 10,362 at the Mandalay Bay Events Center, the only question has to be, who has a legitimate shot to challenge the UFC middleweight champion?

The unanimous five round decision read 50-42 twice and 50-43 for Franklin, who defended his crown for the second time and did it with a broken left hand - and possibly a broken foot and right hand - from the second round on.

“It’s the first fight where I’ve gone to a decision, so I’m very displeased with myself,” said Franklin, who could now be dubbed ‘The Punisher’ after his dominating performance.

Kicking was the weapon of choice early on. Loiseau missed his first high kick, but landed his second, producing nary a pause from Franklin, who responded with a kick of his own that was in turn answered by ‘The Crow’. Both decided to test their hands moments later, and though Loiseau’s handspeed was superior, it was Franklin who jarred the challenger and sent him sprawling into the fence briefly. Loiseau answered with a flush shot of his own, but Franklin took it well. With under 1:30 to go, Franklin picked up his pace a bit, though many of his shots were deflected or avoided by Loiseau. The respect both fighters had for each other was obvious though, and it appeared that the combatants were settling in for a long battle, something that almost didn’t happen when Franklin put Loiseau on the deck at the bell with a right to the jaw.

Looking to follow-up on his good fortune from the previous round, Franklin aggressively pursued Loiseau, who refused to engage when the champion attacked. Loiseau then suffered a delayed reaction to a punch from Franklin and the champ pounced and put the challenger on the mat. Once the two rose, Loiseau, with a nasty knot over his right eye and a bloody nose, was even less amenable to trading with the champ, even turning his back on Franklin on a few occasions. With under two minutes left, Franklin continued to dominate from corner to corner as Loiseau’s legs didn’t even seem to want to hold him anymore. With less than 30 seconds left, Franklin went for the finish, slamming Loiseau and pounding him, but the bell intervened.

Loiseau opened up with some kicks to start the third round and make a charge for the title, but again it was Franklin with a quick takedown that turned into a sequence where he got Loiseau’s back and looked to end the bout. ‘The Crow’ survived, but when he rose, the knot over his right eye worsened and he was cut over both eyes. After the doctor allowed the fight to continue, Loiseau finally struck paydirt, knocking Franklin to the mat with a left hook and suddenly putting the Cincinnati native in trouble.

“I wasn’t hurt, I wanted to create a little drama,” joked Franklin. “That’s a lie. Dave clipped me.”

Franklin was able to buy some time along the fence though, and he again put it on the Montreal native, whose face was battered beyond recognition. Loiseau, who was obviously having trouble seeing, started to paw with his arm to at least touch Franklin and know where he was, undoubtedly a bad sign, but he was able to survive the third stanza.

At the start of the fourth, the two combatants again touched gloves, this time even smiling at each other in appreciation of the courage both were showing. By the end of the opening minute, Franklin again got Loiseau’s back and battered the courageous Canadian, who refused to give in. A slam by ‘Ace’ at the three minute mark didn’t help matters, and referee John McCarthy was watching the fight closely, but when Loiseau rose, he was ready to fight again. Franklin, way ahead at this point, took the pace back a bit as looked to reload his guns for another run in the final round.

Far behind, Loiseau went for broke in the fifth, still throwing leg kicks with brutal power. Franklin was just too strong at this point in the fight, and he easily took ‘The Crow’ down again. Loiseau tried to fight his way out of trouble, but Franklin put him right back in a precarious spot and got his back once again – usually a sure way to end a fight, but it was as if Loiseau got it in his head that he would not give in at any cost.

He didn’t. And even though he lost his fight for the UFC middleweight title, David Loiseau definitely earned the crown as the toughest fighter in the world.

Georges St. Pierre was the spitting image of a 9 to 5 businessman when he entered the UFC Octagon at 5:08pm local time to warm up in a suit, tie, and no shoes. But once he returned to fight former UFC welterweight champion BJ Penn, he was all fighter, as he survived a bloody pounding in the first round to win the next two on two of the three judges’ cards and earn a split decision in the highly anticipated bout that actually lived up to the hype.

Scores were 29-28 twice and 28-29 for St. Pierre, who earned a rematch against current UFC welterweight king Matt Hughes with the win. Penn, who entered the bout wearing the championship belt he never lost in the Octagon, was disappointed with the verdict.

“I just feel that I probably did more damage,” said Penn. “But he fought well.”

Penn - making his first UFC appearance in two years after a contract dispute and lawsuit kept him out of the Octagon - was barely able to contain himself as he awaited the opening bell, and the roar of the crowd was ear-splitting. Penn came straight out at his foe, looking to land a bomb, but St. Pierre kept his cool in perhaps the biggest fight of his life. A flurry by Penn left St. Pierre blinking his eye from an inadvertent thumb, but also left his nose bloodied. “I “saw two BJ Penns,” said St. Pierre.

At the three-minute mark, the two clinched and St. Pierre walked Penn to the fence and tried to work his knees. Penn responded with knees of his own and fought off St. Pierre’s takedown attempts. After a break, the two traded, and St. Pierre picked up his pace with punches and kicks. Penn calmly stood in the pocket though and picked at his opponent with accurate shots that opened a cut under St. Pierre’s right eye.

“This is the first time in my career I bled a lot and I learned a lot,” said St. Pierre, who fought much of the fight with his face covered in crimson. “I was really hurt in the first round.”

Looking to turn the tide, St. Pierre came out fast in the second, shooting out jabs and kicks that surprised Penn. After locking up again, St. Pierre was finally able to put Penn on the mat, where he worked from inside the Hilo native’s guard briefly before standing and landing a couple of shots on the prone Penn. With a little over three minutes left, both fighters stood and St. Pierre was able to bully Penn bac