Religion or Atheism.. What do YOU believe??

[Neverlose]

Just trying to get some intellectual conversation going here on the forums. It's slow at work and I'm in a thinking mood so I figured I'd put this out there for those who want to discuss.

I see so many people saying that they don't believe in God anymore. If you don't, what conclusion have you come to that life exists? How did we all come to be if you don't believe there is a God? Why don't you believe there is a God?

For those that do believe in God, do you believe in the Bible 100%? Or the Koran? Or the old testament? Do you believe the Bible or Koran has contradictions? Are you ok with the fact it contains contradictions even though you base your life around it's teachings? Also, does the fact that many of these writers weren't there firsthand to experience these events make you a skeptic?

Also, if you believe in God, do you not follow a religious book? Why not, if you fall into this category...

I'll chime in with my answers in a few..

[Nostradumbass]

Heh. If you're looking for an intellectual discussion, you're not going to find one on this topic.

Should be posted in politics, since religion and politics are so similar nowadays anyway: anyone who believes in the same things you do is alright, but anyone with a differing viewpoint is horribly misguided and quite possibly an evil child-molesting arsonist as well.

[Exhiliration]

If you don't, what conclusion have you come to that life exists?

I’m alive aren’t I, that’s proof enough it exists.

How did we all come to be if you don't believe there is a God?
Science, atoms colliding eventually in the future we will have an answer. Science seems to be explaining a lot of things religion used to be the only answer for.

Why don't you believe there is a God?
Do you believe in the god of rain? I sure don’t, when you do I might believe in yours. There is no GOD. You are responsible for your actions and what you do will have a direct influence on others and yourself. Some guy with a pointy hat or a yamaca is not going to tell me right from wrong or how to live my life. When you die, you will decay and life will move on. Stop wasting your time in an outdated institution.
Enlightment baby, enlighten yourself.

[Neverlose]

ok well if a mod would be so kind as to move this over to politics it would be greatly appreciated..

ok i guess i'll share now..

I'm a confused individual so.. my points of view do somewhat contradict themselves, but anyway.

Aight, this is pretty much what brought me to where I am.

Around the time I began thinking critically (I forget what age), there were way too many unanswered questions in Christianity. The institution itself (not just the Bible, but how it was interpretated and used inconsistently) just made me not take any of it seriously. Every Christian I spoke to, from preachers to peers, made it painfully obvious that they didn't really believe the Bible was the word of God. They just wanted a higher being to believe in, and that was the mainstream choice. It was a crutch for people who didn't want to ponder an existence without an afterlife, or a world with unexplainable suffering. I know there's exceptions, but this was my general perception the time.

Through more and more experiences, I refined my beliefs and brought more to religious discussions. To make a long story short, Christianity requires you to have faith in the Bible being true in order to believe in Christianity, which is based on the Bible. So, from an intellectual standpoint, it's circular logic. I eventually lost all respect for the institution, but not all of the people who believe in it.

This was all beside the fact that religion has been used more as a tool then an actual institution throughout history.. Religion itself, not just christianity but religion was a way to control people. The church used to hold ALOT more power than it does today, wars were fought, people were slaughtered, women were raped, and children enslaved all in the name of god and religion.


Around 11 or so, I considered myself atheist, and did for many years after.

Meanwhile, something still was't right. Atheism had the exact same unanswered questions that Christianity had, but it was just a different crutch. I find that most people who considered themselves "atheist" in this country, don't actually believe a God doesn't exist. They, like me, just found it logically impossible for a God to exist as described by the Bible. If you have a conversation with a lot of "atheists," you'll probably spend more time discussing what they don't believe than what they do. It's very easy to take the Bible's description of God, and use logic to break down how it's impossible for one being to have so many contradictory traits.

But it still doesn't mean you don't believe in a higher being at all. It's my belief, and I could be wrong, that the majority of people who consider themselves atheists are really agnostic.

Fast forward to now. I still consider myself agnostic, but not by default. It's not really a belief, but more of a deduction. The more I learn about life & biology, the more I find anything outside of a "creator" utterly ridiculous. Everyone with a basic knowledge of how things work understand form and function. I think where I would disagree with a "hardcore atheist" is the leap from "form and function" to "design and purpose." So you either believe x, y, and z was created to do A, or x, y, and z just appeared and happen to do A.

Subsequently, I feel somewhat the same way about atheists as I do about zealous Christians. It's incredibly ironic and pretentious that people make fun of Christians for "blindly following whatever they read in the Bible" and "believing in things they've never seen for themselves..." Yet these same people turn around and all but worship scientific theories that can't even be proven.

Skeptic: "Where did we come from?"
Christian: "God created the universe and man."
Atheist: "LOL You think God just snapped his fingers and we appeared outta thin air? Silly Christian..."

Skeptic: "What about you? Where did we come from"
Atheist: "It's a fact we came from evolution!"
Skeptic: "What created the original matter and energy that we evolved from?"
Atheist: "well, it just happened one day... something appeared from nothing. big bang!"
Skeptic: "How could something appear from total nothingness?"
Atheist: ".....there's some theories. None can really be tested or re-created though."
Skeptic: "Also, what created the system of balance and growth in the universe that governs gravity, physics, biology, and the blueprint for something like evolution to even be possible in the first place?"
Atheist: "......................chance!"
Skeptic: "So not only did all life, matter, and energy in the universe just appear out of nothing, but the method in which it evolved to the universe we have today all happened by chance?"
Atheist: ".........................................."



I guess atheists (not all, but most I've seen) annoy me more than Christians because they really do believe they're more "intellectual" and above Christians. But when faced with true skepticism, their answers look even more implausible... that's if they have an answer at all.

On the flip side the thing people dont realize, is we 'think' too much. All culture, doesn't and didn't evolve around Western Culture of Logic, and reasoning.


In fact, all of the religious figures worshipped, are of Eastern Cultural dissent, and they're cultures were dealt more with spiritual feeling than logics and shit.

Those exact inner feelings that you cant explain, the shit that you know happens, like Deja Vu', but you have no explanation for, those xould be our connections to God. Life outer space, spirits and ghosts, all these shit are very real. the concpets themselves woudn't exist if these things weren't true.

ANY and EVERYthing is possible. Anything that CAN happen, WILL happen. We are spiritual beings. Our power is much greater than whats trapped in our flesh. Thats why we can speak things into existence. All these things are very real.

You ever heard of a team without a coach? The truth is, evolution most likely IS true. God used evolution to form the world. There's a much bigger picture for us than just this 60-70 years we live on Earth.

[CasterTroy]

Neverlose....if you want to post in this thread what SPECIFICALLY you'd like an explination for in the bible that confuses you...or about Christians that seems odd....I'll be more than happy to attempt to answer with what I know..or FIND you the information you are looking for.

You're looking to fill that void, and you're taking the HUMAN approach in doing so, trying to answer questions with logic and scientific conclusions...when the only answer that many have given you in the past is "it's beyond our comprehension"


Am I right?

If you want to shoot me a pM and be more detailed I'll TRY to help...or we can use this thread to try to get a better understanding......but generally in the open you get alot of crap like.......

You're a fool if you think you have the answers to.......

then thats generally followed IN THE SAME REPLY with

you're wrong and I'm right

Many speak of how hipocritical believers are and how they look down on those who don't believe like them.......well....I'm here to tell you that I've NEVER seen hipocracy like I have from those determined to convince folks there isn't a God here on SBN...they stoop to the point of name calling and attempting to discredit your college degree almost


You watch........just take notes......when the naysayers come in full force to destroy and sharing of the gospel, they'll do so claiming to have the answers, yet telling you noone has the answers


BTW...I'm a Christian, and you CAN have a civilized conversation about belief in God...so long as the maturity level stays above the 4th grade level and folks don't stoop to name calling and BACK what they claim

[L8 Braker]

Originally Posted by Neverlose

ok well if a mod would be so kind as to move this over to politics it would be greatly appreciated..

Good call...Put the religion/politics stuff together...

As for debating, I know Caster is lurking out there

[L8 Braker]

Originally Posted by L8 Braker

As for debating, I know Caster is lurking out there

Looks like I was just a few seconds too late with my reply

[CasterTroy]

as usual

[Neverlose]

well truthfully.. I don't think I'll ever be able to subscribe to any 1 organized religion..

I started reading the Bible as a youngster...trying to find answers to tons of questions I had. And as soon as I did this, it just opened up the floodgates for many more questions. Like i said earlier I started talking to pastors and people who felt they had a good grasp on the Bible. Still, my answers went unanswered. The questions were more centered around contradictions in the bible, and also beliefs that are unfounded.

Like the concept of the trinity.
And Also saying that it's the only way into heaven.

Around the same time I started to research history and other cultures. And found that there are some similarities in the Bible and other religious books that came before the Bible. Once this happened, it made it incredibly hard to look at one book as the truth. Also, knowing man has had his hands in writing these books has also made it extremely difficult for me to believe.

The problem with religious texts is that they can be read in different ways, and thus be used to justify things in a broad spectrum. I believe that the way a person approaches such a book shows how they read it: meaning, if someone is looking for violence in a holy book, they will find it etc.

I think that a person that follows the Bible as close as possible will lead a 'good' life. There are great teachings about life in the Bible. But as far as believing it 100%.....I just can't do it. I believe there is a God. I don't think we're here by accident.
I believe that there are many paths to God. I think it is stupid for a person to be sent to hell for following the incorrect religion. Essentially, the correct religion to me isn't really a set doctrine or way to worship, but a way that people behave or see the world, essentially their morality. Religion is all about morality and culture, not about accounts of creation.

On a side note, I am tired of people continually claiming that God cannot be proven to exist: this is true, at the same time, it cannot be proven that he does not exist. People who base their faith on the first comment are ignoring the second part that is attached the first.

[RbbrDckyBK]

The fact is that nobody knows, or likely will ever know how the universe got it's start. Scientists have their theories (and some sketchy evidence), and religious people have their own ideas. Your example conversation could be re-written, with the non-believer asking hard questions that the religious person wouldn't have any (good) answers to.

What if the universe has just always been here -- forever? The human mind has a hard time with concepts like infinity. There is no reason to say that the universe had to be "created" at all.

Originally Posted by Neverlose

Skeptic: "Where did we come from?"
Christian: "God created the universe and man."
Atheist: "LOL You think God just snapped his fingers and we appeared outta thin air? Silly Christian..."

Skeptic: "What about you? Where did we come from"
Atheist: "It's a fact we came from evolution!"
Skeptic: "What created the original matter and energy that we evolved from?"
Atheist: "well, it just happened one day... something appeared from nothing. big bang!"
Skeptic: "How could something appear from total nothingness?"
Atheist: ".....there's some theories. None can really be tested or re-created though."
Skeptic: "Also, what created the system of balance and growth in the universe that governs gravity, physics, biology, and the blueprint for something like evolution to even be possible in the first place?"
Atheist: "......................chance!"
Skeptic: "So not only did all life, matter, and energy in the universe just appear out of nothing, but the method in which it evolved to the universe we have today all happened by chance?"
Atheist: ".........................................."

[DarNinja]

Originally Posted by Neverlose

Religion itself, not just christianity but religion was a way to control people. The church used to hold ALOT more power than it does today, wars were fought, people were slaughtered, women were raped, and children enslaved all in the name of god and religion.

Caster and I both dominate religion topics on SBN!

okay, my take:

I was born and raised into the mormon church. I saw inconsistencies, such as: brainwashing the children (through fun youth events), demanding tithing in order for eternal salvation in the highest kingdom, temple crap, etc.

By the way, this has all happened within the last 3 years.

Okay, so in my confusion I took a step backward to see the "big picture" which is when I noticed all of the above.

If anybody has ever read the book Angels and Demons, by Dan Brown, they will recognize this next part. I came to some final conclusions on what I thought about religion, etc. Then I read The Da Vinci Code, and I am now reading Angels and Demons, which included MY exact feelings toward everything.

I quote:
"The men and women of CERN (a scientific facility) are here to find answers to the same questions man has been asking since the beginning of time. Where did we come from? What are we made of?"

"And these answers are in a physics lab?"

"You sound surprised."

"I am. The questions seem spiritual."

"Mr. Langdon, all questions were once spiritual. Since the beginning of time, spirituality and religion have been called on to fill in the gaps that science did not understand. The rising and setting of the sun was once attributed to Helios and a flaming chariot. Earthquakes and tidal waves were the wrath of Poseidon. Science has now proven those gods to be false idols. Soon ALL Gods will be proven to be false idols. Science has now provided answers to almosot every question man can ask. There are only a few quesetions left, and they are the esoteric ones. Where do we come from? What are we doing here? What is the meaning of life and the universe?"

Langdon was amazed. "And these are questions CERN is trying to answer?"

"Correction. These are questions we ARE answering."

CERN is a scientific research facility located in Geneva, Switzerland.

As of always, man has thought that they know all the answers. Such as the greeks whose gods were proven non-existant by science. Science has uncovered so much already. Evolution is very real; however, people are not listening to the truth of the matter on evolution.

BTW: I am not above you all saying that I know everything... This is all just observation.. okay?

In years to come, science will have uncovered more questions.

Now for my actual bit: I dont know whether or not there is a God. I believe that Anti-Matter may have created the universe. I don't believe that there is a purpose to life. Its kind of like the animals, they are just here...and they dont fulfill any real purpose. BTW, dont argue and say that they serve the purpose of feeding us As we kill them to eat them, I dont think they had a choice in that!! haha BTW, I am not a vegetarian, lol.

Bottom line: I believe we should all just live as we want to. For me, I like to be nice to others (not be an ass), and I am going to enjoy my Ninja 500R when I get it. I enjoy spending time with friends and marveling the beauty of nature (Im not a green thumb or treehugger, tho).

So, that is what I have to say. I wrote kinda fast, hope I didn't leave something out.

*Waiting for Caster's reply*

[Gimpdiggity]

What is the point of bringing up things like this in the first place??

Nobody that believes in god is gonna convince anyone who doesn't that there is a god.

Just like nobody that doesn't believe in god is gonna convince anyone who does that there is no god.

Example, I believe there is no god and that it is a bit far fetched to put your trust in an "invisible being" to live your life by. I'm not going to convince anyone of this fact through a thread on the internet.

Caster is a christian and believes in god. He's not going to convince me of the fact that there is a god through a thread on the internet.



Personally, the bible is full of too many holes. It's a novel at best. It contradicts itself everywhere, and goes against some very concrete scientific devices. Science seems to continually prove things that religion could only prove in the past.

Religion is only a tool. It's not real. It's a tool to help people live their lives better. It works for many people. Are they foolish to believe in it?? Not at all if it helps them with their lives. That still doesn't change the fact that I don't believe in god.

Religion is something that's been around as long as time itself. The only thing that I find rather humorous is that religions often times try to say that other religions are wrong. Why is chrisitanity correct, but the polytheism of the ancient Romans is incorrect?? That's like saying "This lie I made up is real, but the lie you made up is not real."