Obama's Urban Policy Plan - "Commonsense gun laws and childproof guns"

[Gaolee]

Originally Posted by snakesht

Things have changed a lot in 40 years. Now they have things called Bills of Sale, which are kept on record every time a firearm is sold from an FFL.

However, if I sell one of my guns legally (which only requires that I check the buyer's ID), and it is used in a crime, they will come back to me first. Then it's up to me to prove my case. That's why I always write out a bill of sale when I sell a firearm and have both parties sign it.

A whole lot of race bikes are bought and sold in the same manner.

[bumblebee]

I am just curious how y'all are going to act when States start deciding that 100+ HP motorcycles are assault vehicles and they ban them...then they tell you that you have to turn in the ones you have now

[snakesht]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

A whole lot of race bikes are bought and sold in the same manner.

But are rarely used in the commission of violent crimes.

[Scissors]

Originally Posted by snakesht

Things have changed a lot in 40 years. Now they have things called Bills of Sale, which are kept on record every time a firearm is sold from an FFL.

However, if I sell one of my guns legally (which only requires that I check the buyer's ID), and it is used in a crime, they will come back to me first. Then it's up to me to prove my case. That's why I always write out a bill of sale when I sell a firearm and have both parties sign it.

Well, you wouldn't have to really prove your case considering that their case requires motive, means, and opportunity. That you once owned the weapon provides none of the above.

[killernoodle]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

Re read then respond.

I tried, your post barely makes any sense at all.

[flylooper]

Originally Posted by snakesht

Things have changed a lot in 40 years. Now they have things called Bills of Sale, which are kept on record every time a firearm is sold from an FFL.

However, if I sell one of my guns legally (which only requires that I check the buyer's ID), and it is used in a crime, they will come back to me first. Then it's up to me to prove my case. That's why I always write out a bill of sale when I sell a firearm and have both parties sign it.

Well now, see? You just "shot a hole" in your own argument. You agreed that there's a whole level of unregistered firearms out there. If there are such guns, then it's reasonable to assume that they will also get bought and sold illegally i.e., no registration by buyer or seller.

Second of all, even registered guns get stolen and wind up in the hands of bad guys. Or...maybe somewhere a kid like Kip Kinkle will take Dad's rifle and massacre his parents and a few school mates, like what happened in Springfield here a few years ago.

Bottom line, this is a problem that has absolutely NO solution. It's part of who were are. As long as there are people who love their shootin' irons in this country it's going to be a problem with unnecessary suicides, murders and maimings. The people who make and sell, repair, and trade in guns, the hunting industry, etc., have a vested interest in seeing to it they remain as much without restrictions in their commerce as possible. It's that simple.

And there are a lot of Americans that equate gun ownership with freedom. It ain't so. A Brit or a Spaniard, a Swede or a Frenchman is no less free than we are. They just live by more progressive rules.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by killernoodle

I tried, your post barely makes any sense at all.

Lets go over it again, All you are doing is making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns when the bad guys do not give a fuck, You could make guns completely Illigal in America and guess what, they will get them from other sources and or make them on their own. Comprende?

[Royal Tiger]

You people crack me up. The problem with Obama and his advisors, is that most of them know nothing about firearms to begin with. I was a small arms specialist in the Air Force Reserves for 11+ years and am currently an armorer with Beretta and SIG/Sauer, and have been a police officer for 13.

"Child proofing" guns are the same people who 5 years ago ran around trying to sell police departments on "Smart Gun" technology to keep officers from being killed with their own side arms. A real problem, but the cure is worse then the diesease. Their idea was special rings you wore so that the gun would not fire if not in proximity to the wearer. So when one of our reps asked what happens if you forget to bring the ring that day, they looked at each other like deer on I-78 with a Kenworth bearing down on them. Then during their OWN demo the gun failed to fire once out of 20 attempts. My life is worth a 100% sucess rate. That's why I own and maintain SIG pistols, not something I bought in Baltimore out of a ford van for $35.

[killernoodle]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

Lets go over it again, All you are doing is making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns when the bad guys do not give a fuck, You could make guns completely Illigal in America and guess what, they will get them from other sources and or make them on their own. Comprende?

Are you saying that they make their own guns?

What I'm proposing is a system that will prevent otherwise legally purchased guns from being sold unknowingly to criminals. If every gun in the US gets registered to an owner, then it is easy to find out where the illegal ones are or where they are coming from. The way it is now, there are so many loopholes preventing an effective paper trail that it is too easy for people to get a gun illegally.

I know there is no 100% sure fire way to effectively stop all illegal guns, but an efficient system to catalog gun owners and their respective guns would make it far more difficult to buy them. Think about it, here is the process I see:

1. Gun manufacturer/importer registers all serial numbers of all guns created/imported into the national database as being "not sold"
2. When a gun is being purchased, the FFL looks up the buyer in the database to see if they are authorized to purchase a weapon.
3. When the purchase is made, the paring between the new owner and the serial number is made instantly.
4. If the gun owner wants to sell the firearm, they go to the FFL or police station with the new owner and the same process is done in reverse, the old owner gets unpaired and the new owner gets paired after their credentials are approved
5. If the gun is to be shipped elsewhere, it is to be brought to an FFL or police station where it is unpaired from the previous owner and registered as "in transit" or something. The new owner picks it up at the FFL or police station where they are paired with the firearm after checked.

All this is doing is keeping guns paired to their respective owners. I think that most guns owned by criminals are actually purchased legally at one point and then sold unknowingly to the black market.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by killernoodle

Are you saying that they make their own guns?

What I'm proposing is a system that will prevent otherwise legally purchased guns from being sold unknowingly to criminals. If every gun in the US gets registered to an owner, then it is easy to find out where the illegal ones are or where they are coming from. The way it is now, there are so many loopholes preventing an effective paper trail that it is too easy for people to get a gun illegally.

I know there is no 100% sure fire way to effectively stop all illegal guns, but an efficient system to catalog gun owners and their respective guns would make it far more difficult to buy them. Think about it, here is the process I see:

1. Gun manufacturer/importer registers all serial numbers of all guns created/imported into the national database as being "not sold"
2. When a gun is being purchased, the FFL looks up the buyer in the database to see if they are authorized to purchase a weapon.
3. When the purchase is made, the paring between the new owner and the serial number is made instantly.
4. If the gun owner wants to sell the firearm, they go to the FFL or police station with the new owner and the same process is done in reverse, the old owner gets unpaired and the new owner gets paired after their credentials are approved
5. If the gun is to be shipped elsewhere, it is to be brought to an FFL or police station where it is unpaired from the previous owner and registered as "in transit" or something. The new owner picks it up at the FFL or police station where they are paired with the firearm after checked.

All this is doing is keeping guns paired to their respective owners. I think that most guns owned by criminals are actually purchased legally at one point and then sold unknowingly to the black market.

You just dont get it, criminals were once normal people. You could sell a pistol to jack off around the corner, jack off is a nice law abiding citizen untell jack off snaps one day from whatever, suddenly, jack ass is a criminal.
Starting to sink in or is it still beyond your grasp?

[zx6rracer]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

You just dont get it, criminals were once normal people. You could sell a pistol to jack off around the corner, jack off is a nice law abiding citizen untell jack off snaps one day from whatever, suddenly, jack ass is a criminal.
Starting to sink in or is it still beyond your grasp?

what blurr is saying is, there's a guy parked at our southern border that will, for $20 give you any hand gun you want. not literally, but i hope you get the point. just cause they can't steal them from normal law abiding citizens doesn't mean they can't get them. it's called the black market for a reason

[Gaolee]

Originally Posted by snakesht

But are rarely used in the commission of violent crimes.

Proof? Please provide a link.

[snakesht]

Originally Posted by Gaolee

Proof? Please provide a link.

Funny guy.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by zx6rracer

what blurr is saying is, there's a guy parked at our southern border that will, for $20 give you any hand gun you want. not literally, but i hope you get the point. just cause they can't steal them from normal law abiding citizens doesn't mean they can't get them. it's called the black market for a reason

I have said that yes, but what I am saying this time around is we are all born normal citizens, to a degree that is true, however its not like there is a race of people who are criminals from birth, which is how the anti gunners with their "common sense" bullshit like to present it.

Dillon Klebold and Eric Harris were once normal kids untell they snapped and shot up a school. They aquired their firearms Illigally however, but it very well could have ended up where they had turned 18, purchased firearms over the counter and then shot up a school.

[killernoodle]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

You just dont get it, criminals were once normal people. You could sell a pistol to jack off around the corner, jack off is a nice law abiding citizen untell jack off snaps one day from whatever, suddenly, jack ass is a criminal.
Starting to sink in or is it still beyond your grasp?

Well, since there is no fucking way in hell to predict who is going to pull a 180 in their life and go around shooting up a school or something, there is no way to regulate things in that case. Fortunately, if he was law abiding when he got the weapon under my proposal, he would be linked to the crime and so would his gun.

I'm just trying to put it in your head that being able to trace a gun to a person and vise versa is a positive thing, its not intrusive, and it should be able to keep NEW and existing registered guns from getting in the hands of people who are already criminals. Currently, anyone who can forge a signature on a photocopied piece of paper and produce a drivers license at the local gunshop can buy any gun they want in my county. I'm just saying the current system is a stupid and ineffective way of ensuring the wrong people don't purchase firearms and put them into the black market.

The redneck way is not common sense, its reckless and allows criminals easy access to guns.