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Politics & ReligionWell Since every damn forum has one. Might as well leave it out there. This place is loosely moderated and should not be entered if you're weak of heart.
But isn't an assault weapon by definition a weapon that operates as both a rifle and machine gun?
I think one major problem is that one can get parts to make a previously semi-auto rifle, fully automatic. My understanding is that you can buy a "sporterized" AK-47 or M-16 (or similar type) and then go to your local gun show, for instance, and buy the parts needed to remake it into a true assault weapon.
A baseball bat could be an assault weapon. And no modification needed to make it full auto either.
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Mark S.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have".
Gerald Ford
I, for one, have a problem with anyone owning a machine gun. Period. They are meant to do one thing only, which is to kill people. Not deer, not bears, not ground squirrels.
People. That's a problem for me.
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"In the long run, we are all dead." - J.M. Keynes
"The strongest enemy of tyranny is a long memory." - Phil DeBar
"E Clampus Vitus" - YB1
I, for one, have a problem with anyone owning a machine gun. Period. They are meant to do one thing only, which is to kill people. Not deer, not bears, not ground squirrels.
People. That's a problem for me.
The second amendment was not established in the interest of hunters.
__________________
"In the long run, we are all dead." - J.M. Keynes
"The strongest enemy of tyranny is a long memory." - Phil DeBar
"E Clampus Vitus" - YB1
I, for one, have a problem with anyone owning a machine gun. Period. They are meant to do one thing only, which is to kill people. Not deer, not bears, not ground squirrels.
People. That's a problem for me.
That is why there is a special license to acquire one. So the Govt. now knows who has them.
I too agree with you Fly, no reason what so ever to have a full auto weapon for “Joe Six-Gun”.
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Mark S.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have".
Gerald Ford
But isn't an assault weapon by definition a weapon that operates as both a rifle and machine gun?
I think one major problem is that one can get parts to make a previously semi-auto rifle, fully automatic. My understanding is that you can buy a "sporterized" AK-47 or M-16 (or similar type) and then go to your local gun show, for instance, and buy the parts needed to remake it into a true assault weapon.
One of the reasons for the Second Amendment was to make sure that The People could overthrow the government if need be. In order to ensure this ability, The People need to be able to defeat the military. Castrating their weapon choices prevents this and allows the government to become highly oppressive.
This is not to say that the government needs overthrowing now, because it doesn't. But who here can honestly say with 100% certainty that this will be the case 200 years from now?
Just playing devil's advocate here, because I really don't have an opinion one way or the other about gun control:
The question has now become, can the people overthrow the government with the sorts of weapons we're discussing? Sure, using guerilla tactics, small arms, and IEDs, as well as intimate knowledge of your home turf, a small militia group can be a niusance to a modern military, but can they really depose the government as we know it?
I think that the primary argument of pro-gun control people is that the potential dangers of "assault weapons" in this day and age outweigh the potential benefits. For all intents and purposes, you can defend yourself and your home with hunting weapons or pistols just as well as you can with your AR or bushmaster.
The primary defense we have against an oppressive government comes from the first ammendment, not the second.
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"The central conservative truth is that it is culture, not politics, that determines the success of a society. The central liberal truth is that politics can change culture and save it from itself." -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
"Allow Effective Gun-Tracing: When law enforcement agencies operate in concert at the federal, state, and local levels, the chances of solving a crime increases. Since 2003, the Tiahrt Amendment has restricted the ability of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to share gun trace information with members of state and local law enforcement. The ATF has a wide-ranging database of gun information, yet Washington has threatened police officers with time in prison for attempting to access it. As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama also favors commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn’t have them. He supports closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. He also supports making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong onforeign battlefields and not on our streets." - from barackobama.com
Sounds good to me.
Obviously, you are drinking the kool-aid without looking what is in it.
The Tiahrt Amendment prohibits the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) from releasing information from its firearms trace database to anyone other than a law enforcement agency or prosecutor in connection with a criminal investigation. Additionally, any data so released is inadmissible in a civil lawsuit. That means that a bureacrat cannot "surf" the database looking for gun buyers.
What’s the big deal about killing the Tiahrt amendment? Police need more tools so they can “solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade”. A more important question to ask is “will repealing the tiahrt amendment give police these tools?”. So let’s have a look at the basic concepts.
There is no national gun registration. Most people think that there is. So what about the form that you fill out when you buy a gun?
That form is called a 4473. The form asks you a bunch of questions about your identity and citizen status.
There’s also a place for the licensed gun dealer to record the make, model and serial number of the gun you are purchasing. The dealer uses some of the information from this form to perform an instant criminal background check, where required.
But no serial number is transmitted to the background checking service.
All the background check does is determine whether the gun can be legally transferred to the person who filled out the form.
Those form 4473’s do not get sent to some giant data repository dug into the side of a hill near Washington DC. They stay, by law, with the licensed dealer for 20 years (a filing and storage resource that the dealer does not get paid to do).
There are no 4473’s or background checks for private sales.
So how does “trace data” help police do more? Let’s define trace data. When a particular gun is used in a crime, law enforcement (LE) has the ability to request information on the specific firearm.
The first thing they do is determine the maker and the serial number. The LE agency doing the crime investigation will then contact the maker for trace information on the gun and the maker will provide information on who the gun was sold to. It likely went to a distributor. Another trace request from the LE agency to the distributor. The distributor then lets the investigators know which federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL) the gun was sold to. Another trace request to the FFL who then looks up the information in his or her stack of neatly filed 4473 forms. At this point, the trace data will lead to the gun owner or the trail will go cold because the gun has been subsequently sold. All of this trace data is compiled by BATF into a database of weapons that are believed to have been used in a crime. So what about this Tiahrt thing?
The Tiahrt amendment puts very specific restrictions on this trace information. Look at the very first sentence again. It restricts the release of the data specifically to a LE agency or prosecutor in connection with a criminal investigation. That means any LE authority or prosecutor can only access the database as it pertains to their active case(s) and no others. They are not restricted in any way. The Tiahrt Amendment means the entire database is not open to anyone to "look through" at any time.
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When the government's boot is on your throat, does it matter if it is a boot from the left or a boot from the right?
Last edited by bumblebee : 11-18-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flylooper
But isn't an assault weapon by definition a weapon that operates as both a rifle and machine gun?
I think one major problem is that one can get parts to make a previously semi-auto rifle, fully automatic. My understanding is that you can buy a "sporterized" AK-47 or M-16 (or similar type) and then go to your local gun show, for instance, and buy the parts needed to remake it into a true assault weapon.
Your understanding is blatantly WRONG. I strongly suggest you do some reading on the NFA of 1986 and the AWB of 1994. You're opinion means nothing to me, but at least take the time to research something before you run your mouth. Don't you have some talk shows to watch?
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