Is Obama a socialist?

[User Name]

So in addition to a terrorist we now have Sarah Palin calling Obama a socialist. Let's examine this latest claim. The Miriam Webster dictionary defines socialism as:

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Hmmmm, I don't recall Obama endorsing government ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods.

2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

Well gosh golly, sweet little Sarah's claim doesn't get any support here either.

2 b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

See response to 1 above.

3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Wait a minute... is this it? Is this the "redistribution of wealth" that we've been hearing so much about? That's funny, because it wasn't called socialism for the past 8 years as wealth has been redistributed upwards. Oh, I see, it's only socialism when wealth is being redistributed downwards.

So, to put it more clearly, it's American to redistribute wealth away from the lower 95% of the population into the pockets of the wealthiest 5%, and it's socialist to redistribute it the other way. As Sarah would say with a smile and a wink, Gotchya!

[jim schmidt]

Interesting that this is their second bite of the "socialist" apple. The first one was a fail and this one doesn't seem to have caught fire (except in the punditry) either. I guess they looked at the polling for Joe the Phoney and thought they had a shot.

McCain is closing about a tenth of a point a day. Do the math.

[gospeed81]

The "work done" part is the most important in that definition.

We continue to tread on the working class in an apparent attempt to keep them in their place, all the while telling them they're unnecessary and easily replaced by overseas workers.

Those that due these jobs drive the economy, and helping them is as far from socialism, and the best way to foster caplitalism as I can see.

Meanwhile, continued tax breaks and bailouts of the upper crust is the quickest way to strangle this production based way of life.

[gospeed81]

Originally Posted by jim schmidt

I guess they looked at the polling for Joe the Phoney and thought they had a shot.

It's ridiculous they got that much of a boost from the misinformed citizen with a question.

Read an Ed Rollins editorial comparing the boost from Joe with that of Colin Powell for Obama. Shouldn't even be in the same ballpark. Joe is as much of a boon for McCain as the person that asked Palin about cross border raids into Pakistan was for Obama, and nothing more. It just shows poor choice of words that requires some staffer explaining later.

To compare this to an endorsement by the best adviser, and the man that would probably be the first black president himself if not for the WMD debacle is ludicrous. It's only a big play for the 'Pubs as it's their last play.

Calling Obama a socialist is like calling a scooter fast. Sure it feels like it when your frame of context is off, but it's certainly not a supersport, and it was time you got out of the "cage" anyhow.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by gospeed81

It's ridiculous they got that much of a boost from the misinformed citizen with a question.

Read an Ed Rollins editorial comparing the boost from Joe with that of Colin Powell for Obama. Shouldn't even be in the same ballpark. Joe is as much of a boon for McCain as the person that asked Palin about cross border raids into Pakistan was for Obama, and nothing more. It just shows poor choice of words that requires some staffer explaining later.

To compare this to an endorsement by the best adviser, and the man that would probably be the first black president himself if not for the WMD debacle is ludicrous. It's only a big play for the 'Pubs as it's their last play.

Calling Obama a socialist is like calling a scooter fast. Sure it feels like it when your frame of context is off, but it's certainly not a supersport, and it was time you got out of the "cage" anyhow.

Seems like we know the Joe the Phony effect (about a tenth of a point a day.) In 48 hours we'll know the Powell effect. It'll be embarassing (for all Americans) if they equal out, but after the last two elections, it wouldn't surprise me.

[keystonejenks]

Okay I wonder if anybody caught onto this. The other thing coming from the McCain campaign is how Obama "wants to spread the wealth." Palin was in my area yesterday and she said this a couple times.

Well, what is it called when each citizen of Alaska got a check from the Alaskan government courtesy of the oil companies? Isn't that "wealth distribution?"

[F&D]

User, if you had ever actually read anything about Marxism, you would understand that a socialist agenda isn't implemented overnight in one fell swoop. Obama appears to be tackling the redistribution of income first, that's all. Socialization of health care is the next step to government control and ownership of "the means of production".

If "spreading the wealth" is a just and proper philosophy, and given that much private wealth in this country is held in the form of physical property, shouldn't we redistribute this property wealth as well?

Read my sig.


edit:

Originally Posted by keystonejenks

Well, what is it called when each citizen of Alaska got a check from the Alaskan government courtesy of the oil companies? Isn't that "wealth distribution?"

We've already covered this. Palin's windfall profit system for Alaskan residents were not redistributing wealth - Alaskans already owned this wealth - their state's nonrenewable energy resources. Her windfall profit tax merely helped to ensure that the citizens received royalties for the extraction of that resource wealth which was already theirs, and to offset taxpayer investment in the development of those resources.

Not the same thing at all.

[jim schmidt]

If you're a really dim bulb, that might seem like a compelling argument. That, btw is the same quality of logic that brought us to The Domino Effect, Trickle Down Economics and The Bush Doctrine.

So if you bought all those...

[keystonejenks]

Originally Posted by F&D

We've already covered this. Palin's windfall profit system for Alaskan residents were not redistributing wealth - Alaskans already owned this wealth - their state's nonrenewable energy resources. Her windfall profit tax merely helped to ensure that the citizens received royalties for the extraction of that resource wealth which was already theirs, and to offset taxpayer investment in the development of those resources.

Not the same thing at all.

Well, if it was sent to Alaskans as a means to offset the taxpayer's investment, where is my check? The other 49 states help fund the development too.

[User Name]

Originally Posted by F&D

User, if you had ever actually read anything about Marxism, you would understand that a socialist agenda isn't implemented overnight in one fell swoop. Obama appears to be tackling the redistribution of income first, that's all. Socialization of health care is the next step to government control and ownership of "the means of production".

The flaw in your logic is that Obama's planed tax structure comes on the heals of one of the largest upward consolidations of wealth in history. You can't honestly believe that a few steps in opposite direction is a direct path to socialism.

[bush]

A much more important question:

Is Obama black?

[F&D]

Originally Posted by User Name

The flaw in your logic is that Obama's planed tax structure comes on the heals of one of the largest upward consolidations of wealth in history. You can't honestly believe that a few steps in opposite direction is a direct path to socialism.

Ok, then if Obama's goal is to set right the injustices of an unfair concentration of wealth and it's as bad as you say, then why is he trying to tackle it with such a meagher income-based redistribution? This doesn't do anything to redress the real imbalance of wealth.

The Kennedys have alot more wealth than I do. I deserve part of their estate on Cape Cod. Give it to me.

[poulsen]

Originally Posted by bush

A much more important question:

Is Obama black?

No, he's Mooslam. That's a race you know.

[jim schmidt]

Originally Posted by User Name

The flaw in your logic is that Obama's planed tax structure comes on the heals of one of the largest upward consolidations of wealth in history. You can't honestly believe that a few steps in opposite direction is a direct path to socialism.

The flaw in your perfectly reasonable, thoughtful, and logical response is to whom it was aimed.

[Parabellum]

Originally Posted by F&D

Ok, then if Obama's goal is to set right the injustices of an unfair concentration of wealth and it's as bad as you say, then why is he trying to tackle it with such a meagher income-based redistribution? This doesn't do anything to redress the real imbalance of wealth.

The Kennedys have alot more wealth than I do. I deserve part of their estate on Cape Cod. Give it to me.

Its a good start, but FIXING OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM is the single best way to fix this.

That is part of his plan too, but with the bailout, you know some things will have to be cut.